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I forgot to respond to this part, so I wanted to circle back:
Because I have romanticized his plight! He is like the brooding male hero in the bodice rippers that I read as a teenager — a tormented but good-hearted man who is redeemed and brought out of his darkness and into the light by the heroine! As I have already said, my Florence Nightingale days are behind me. I am not seeing how your Florence Nightingale days are behind you. Are you not needing to encourage him and build him up and trying to show him the “light” whenever he is in his victim or blaming/judging? You are rescuing him, right? Can you explain to me why you believe you are NOT rescuing him and NOT playing the heroine?
While my guy can’t hold a candle to Hamlet, he has just enough torment in him to be fascinating rather than repellent to me. But also triggering, alas. Have you ever really explored why you are fascinated by torment? Have you explored why torment/low self-esteem/judgment/victim mentality would be interesting/entertaining enough for you that you would want to be in a relationship with it?
Heidi
Do you believe that some people are born with a negative, glass-half-empty disposition? If not, does it get imprinted on a person in childhood? He warned me in the beginning that he is a negative person and that he believes he got that trait from his mother. This is absolutely possible. Have you ever studied the Enneagram? It’s an incredibly powerful tool that identifies the essence of a person, not personality traits. It identifies who a person is and always will be, regardless of how they were raised, regardless of their environment and regardless of any programming. Why someone is the way they are can be passed down through the genes too. In studies, it’s believed it can go back 7 generations, so 7 generations behind him, someone could have become severely depressed or angry or resentful or judgmental and they passed that down the lineage. We do know that emotional states are passed down in the genetic code, just as much as physical traits. Who knows why he is the way he is and it honestly doesn’t matter. What matters is that he is choosing to align with victim/judgmental energy and he wants to stay that way. So that means you have to either adapt if you want to stay with him (you will very slowly lose yourself) or choose something more high functioning. I think it’s kind of ironic that you are hypergamous and hold to that standard yet you will stay with a man who is at the emotional level of a teenager and is way under-functioning compared to you when it comes to his approach to life.
Have you ever been with an emotionally intelligent man? Have you ever been with a man who doesn’t blame, who has accountability, who is interested and committed to growth and who is present for and with you?
Heidi
I really am so loving how fast you are moving!!! You are a completely different person than when you first joined this forum. It’s like the engine in you got ignited and you just have never looked back. It truly is beautiful and I’m so honored to get to witness your life!
Okay…the Enneagram. The reason why you can be the same number your entire life, is because the number represents your essence. Your essence NEVER changes. It is the foundation on which you build. The Enneagram helps you understand your communication style, your struggles, your gifts, your challenges etc. However, that doesn’t mean that you don’t display characteristics or flavors of other numbers. We all definitely express traits from other numbers, but our foundation is 1 number. For example, I LOVE LOVE LOVE to deep dive. No matter how much I have changed in my life, that has always been me. When I am under stress, I retreat. No matter how much healing I do, my very initial response is to retreat. That is my essence and part of the my number being expressed. There are parts of you that will never change, regardless of what is happening on the outside world. This is your nature and that is what the Enneagram helps you understand about yourself and others. It truly is fascinating and is something you can study for decades. My teacher has been studying it for over 2 decades and there are still questions she cannot answer. I LOVE her as my teacher because she has no attachment to us knowing the Enneagram the way she does. There truly are MANY perspectives about how to know and use the Enneagram. Like religion or nutrition, or health or money…people are drawn to whatever perspective resonates for them. That’s how layered and deep the Enneagram is. It is far from simple and deserves to be studied and explored to it’s depth if someone is going to claim they know the Enneagram. We love to take a test and put ourselves and others in boxes so we can better understand, but the Enneagram doesn’t really allow you to do that. I’ve been studying it for 2 years off and on and I haven’t even scratched the surface! Susan Piver has been my teacher thus far. She is actually a world renowned meditation teacher and she will teach on the Enneagram usually once or twice a year. I would suggest signing up for her email list and she will notify people when her next class is. Here is her website: https://susanpiver.com/ Just scroll to the bottom and sign up for her newsletter. Her book “The Hard Questions” is spectacular!!! You should check it out! This is a class I just purchased. No clue if the guy is any good, but I figure I am going to hear all perspectives. https://www.soundstrue.com/products/the-enneagram-1?utm_source=Customer%20Service&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=S210907-Ecom-%20Enneagram-Picasso%20%28WVgu3b%29&_kx=dMvB3edQeiaBDLOVvLItLH5tngPZrfAOuCUkYJn5oCo%3D.JMDgaq
i think there’s a degree of ungratefulness in asking for something more or something else, when they’ve already done whatever they could. I understand your perspective. That IS one way to look at it. Could it also be possible that the person (i.e. your mom) does not actually know or understand your needs, therefore she is just doing what she is doing because it’s what SHE wants? Could it also be possible to be grateful for the effort put forth AND still teach people who YOU are by expressing your needs? If you never let your mom know what your needs are, then she is just going to do what she BELIEVES is necessary. Bottom line is, yes…people can be ungrateful for sure, but it doesn’t have to be that way. If you value and appreciate the efforts of your mom AND teach her what your needs are, your needs DO NOT cancel out your gratitude. They get to exist in the same space. Make sense?
So, when someone meets your need – and you go on to succeed because of their help, it also means it wouldn’t have been possible without their help. This is putting quite a bit of power in someone else’s hands. If you become successful, it’s because of you, not them. You took what they offered and put it use. You could easily receive help and do nothing with it, so does that make you indebted to them still, because they helped you? That’s not to say that some people view their help as a way to get you to owe them something down the line. You just have to be very aware of those kinds of people and the energy they offer their help with. Outside of those kinds of people and contracts and agreements you sign, you owe nothing to no one. The truth is, God helps us in a million different ways. You will be successful whether or not certain people help you along the way. Some will say no, some will say yes and you will get to where you are going one way or the other. I remember feeling sooooo guilty, driving to work and seeing a woman laying on the ground about 70 yards from the light I was at. Being trained to be a first responder (on a basic level), I could have gone over and helped her. There was someone there panicking and calling, so I knew EMS was on the way. It also would have been crazy for me to cross over 4 lanes, against traffic to get over there. At least that’s what I told myself. I just drove to work and prayed like crazy for her. A few days later, I drove by that spot and saw fresh flowers at that site. She had died. I felt TERRIBLE that I hadn’t stopped to help. My mom said something very wise to me. It was something to the effect of “Do you really think if she were meant to live, that God would only have relied on JUST YOU to save her? God is more powerful than that. If that woman was meant to live, God is powerful enough to inspire the right people to show up and help.” You get the gist, right? I’m just saying that no one person is responsible for your success and when someone helps you, to say you would not be successful without their help and therefore you owe them…is a VERY small and limited way to view your life and your success. God is much bigger than that in your life!
Heidi
OMG! I LOOOOVE pancakes! I haven’t had them in awhile and you just mentioning them make my mouth water. LOL! Were they just plain or did you add anything to them? You can do soooo many things to pancakes! There is a place here called “Snooze” and holy smokes, their variety of pancakes is soooo fun and yummy. Okay…enough of that…
Let’s break this down more so you can play with them a bit. You are really good at exploring, so I invite you to do this with these programs you have running in your belief system
Sometimes, it’s because i feel like making my needs known puts me in a vulnerable place, Yes, this will ALWAYS be true. The idea would be to be okay to be vulnerable and still maintain your strength and connection to yourself and not give your power away while opening up and being honest. and i don’t trust them with my vulnerability It’s very smart and self-loving to only be vulnerable with people who have earned that right to know the innermost parts of you. This is good you have boundaries around this! Sometimes, it’s because i already know that they cannot give me what i need. I get it! Sometimes this is true and sometimes, being vulnerable can just be about letting yourself be known, without any attachment to the outcome. For example, my ex and I still connect every once in a while and he can be a real ass sometimes. Who he has become is someone who isn’t really caring about my experience, so when he is an ass, I am vulnerable and let him know how that affects me, knowing full well he will most likely ignore it or try and defend. I do it strictly for me. I do it to use my voice and I do it to let him know he is being ineffective. Whether he wants to do something about that, is his choice, but I’m strong enough in myself to just say it, just for me. Sometimes, it’s because i know they are already doing their best and it’s ungrateful of me to ask for more. I want to invite you to really look deeply into this. Who taught you that asking for your needs is you being ungrateful? Is this actually true? Are you being ungrateful? Sometimes, it’s because i don’t like them enough to be indebted to them. Explain this a little further. How does asking for what you want, make you indebted to someone? Sometimes, i don’t want to impose on them. (This is the most frequent one with friends). This is another strong program. Your needs are a gift Vino. ALWAYS. Don’t you love when someone asks for your help and you can give it to them? It feels so good to get to help someone, doesn’t it? Your needs give that person an opportunity for growth, an opportunity to feel themselves give to you, and opportunity to know you deeper. Saying you are imposing on them is YOUR program and not theirs.
I”m so sorry, I think I may have missed this somewhere. Who is Johnny?
I”m glad to hear JB is making some plans with you again for an in-person experience. Since there are already plans in the making, maybe hold off a bit and see how that plays out. Maybe at the end of that time you spend together, you can invite him over for pancakes and see what he does.
I think there’s a difference between losing HIM and losing my Fantasy OF him. I want to lose the fantasy. I want to get to what is real – whatever it is. Will i lose his friendship from asking for more? i suppose it depends on how i ask? or what i ask for? I LOVE this. I love that you want to lose the fantasy of him. I hope he is willing to lose the fantasy of you as well. Seeing more of him or even talking to him more on the phone means he also has to risk being seen more. As you push a bit, you will see where he draws the line and that will give you some good information. I don’t know if you were joking or not, but I would not say that you want to find out the triggers. You saying that actually reminds me of the Enneagram. That might be something that you want to study. It’s an incredibly powerful system to understand the different personalities. People think it’s a personality test like many of the typing systems out there, but it’s not. It’s INCREDIBLY deep and layered and despite the multiple “tests” that are out there, you actually cannot take a test to know what number you are. Tests are there just to give you a starting place. The only way to know what number and subtype you are is to really get to know yourself deeply and to talk with someone who has extensively studied it to help guide you. My favorite part about the Enneagram is it has helped me get to know myself separate from my childhood traumas. Whenever I get triggered and have certain responses, I wondered, am I shutting down and becoming passive aggressive because of my traumas or am I just like that? The Enneagram can answer that. It literally identifies your character and traits according to your essence. It identifies your nature and not your nurture. Whatever number you figure out you are, that’s what you are forever, regardless of trauma or life circumstances. The reason it’s so powerful is can help you start to identify what characteristics you are dealing with in someone else and then learn how to speak to that person. My teacher gave me an example once where every time she brought a problem to her boss, he would ignore her and not pay attention to what she was saying. He was quite disinterested. She herself is the type to be extremely comfortable with “problems.” She feels like, “Let’s dive in and figure out what’s going on.” Once she slowed down and realized what number he was demonstrating, she realized he was behaving more like a dreamer. He was not the type to dive into problems, but instead the type to talk about the future. So she changed her languaging and presentation of her problem and he completely responded to her and all of a sudden became involved. That was a really long explanation, but it may be something that interests you. Let me know and I can direct you a bit.
Heidi
Oh I LOVE LOVE LOVE all of your thoughts! They are wonderful and beautiful and circular…that’s divine feminine energy at it’s best 🙂
Let’s get a little more grounded here. You guys have developed a VERY STRONG and beautiful friendship over technology, with little experience IN PERSON. This means BOTH of you have a very limiting view of each other. There are PLENTY of things for you guys to get upset about with each other, but you guys are not in person enough to truly trigger each other. There is still soooooo much to learn and know about each other, so maybe instead of asking him what direction you guys are heading in, how about just requesting more IN PERSON time. If he is not willing to even do that, then that’s enough information for you to know that he is not someone you can build a romantic connection/relationship with. If he says he needs more time, then you know he carries an incredible amount of fear and that fear is waaaaaay stronger than any connection he is willing to build with you, so you basically will always just be in the “safe/fantasy” zone for him and that’s where you will stay. Which bring you back to this…he is not available for you in the way you are wanting romantically. But he is IS available for you as long as you stay in this particular design. He seems to feels safe with how things are right now. Thoughts on this?
Well — i hate drama. So i’m not going to CAUSE it. When i find myself with those who DO cause drama, i walk away. There’s nothing to gain from engaging in drama. So this makes me a very agreeable person. This doesn’t make you agreeable. This makes you not tolerant. There is a BIG difference. Agreeable means you lose yourself in the drama and you would rather keep the peace instead of be authentic and allow yourself to exist in the relationship. You are just not participating in the drama. This is you being you, not putting up with it and walking away. There is ALWAYS going to be drama on some level, but like you, I personally am not interested in sourcing it, so we either talk and resolve things like adults and move on, or I walk away. Do you see the difference?
if i’m willing to risk losing whatever we have between us — and my answer is always — if it’s in danger of being lost, it doesn’t have a strong foundation, so there’s no point in building on a shaky foundation anyway, so yes, it’s always worth the risk. JAre you sure? So you are saying that you are willing to ask for more from JB at the risk of losing him?
I think you should put up a profile regardless. Why not? It’s not going to hurt anything and you never know who you are going to meet. You might meet someone interesting and engaging and you might not. On some level, it will take the pressure off of JB. What would you talk about with other men, especially since you have JB in your life? Oh goodness, there is sooooo much to explore with people. You putting JB in the primary spot of “go-to” person is keeping your world pretty small. If JB can learn how to support you, so can other men. Why not give other guys the opportunity??
Heidi
Hi Wendy! This is such a great conversation! First, I’m not attached to you heading in one direction or the other. My job is to just shed some light on your situation and offer you different perspectives and take you as deep as you would like to go. In the end, I sure as heck can’t tell you what is best for you. Only YOU know that.
For him, it’s his sour grapes that drive him to continue to try to achieve in life and to prove his naysayers (including his deceased parents) wrong. People find their motivation in different ways and different places, so I can’t say that he’s flat-out wrong for where/how he is seeking his. Of course we all find ways to motivate ourselves. The thing I personally would not be comfortable with, is that the energy of which he is using to source his motivation is a toxic, low vibration and harmful energy, especially for himself. The moment he feels he needs to “defend” himself, he is giving his power away and becomes the victim. He is not learning how to stay empowered, confident and aligned with who he is, even in his failure. There are HUGE consequences he is facing because of the source of his motivation. Essentially, he never really ends up taking responsibility for himself and dealing with his life in an adult way. Victim mentality, blaming and judging is child energy, so that’s about the emotional level you will get from him, ALWAYS. Besides, let’s just simply look at the results of how he motivates himself…he is judgmental, he is emotionally fragile, he plays the victim and he breaks up with you about once per year. I would say the results of his choices speak for themselves. AND…I understand deeply why he is doing what he is doing. I have been there and had to work VERY hard to heal, which allowed me to source myself from energy that is actually empowering, increases connection and expands my ability to be loving and accepting to myself and those around me.
It speaks to some real self-absorption, and, yes, my ex is self-absorbed. But that’s the other side of the coin of his purpose-driven life, no? This again is egocentric type of thinking/believing which is a child’s mentality, not an adult mentality. Children are all about themselves, as they should be. If we have healthy role modeling, we grow out of the “self-absorbed” phase and start to develop a more “other” mentality. He is stuck in child mentality, takes everything personally, blames everyone else for how he feels and he actually feels okay about it. He would rather be in relationship with his judgment/victim/blaming than to be in connection with the people around him because he believes it is what he needs to stay motivated. I get that it’s motivating him for sure, but it’s also a copout. It’s a destructive energy he is choosing to source himself with, when he could choose something different.
Also, because my LL is physical touch, could it simply be that being needed doesn’t do it for me? So if you feel that being needed is not something you are after, then what does resonate for you? If you are choosing to be with a man who WANTS to be a victim, judgmental, insecure, emotionally fragile etc. which sets you up as the caretaker and source for his self-esteem, then what is it IN YOU that is choosing this experience?
I want to be clear…I know this is not ALL that he is. You are not painting a bad picture of him at all. I know he has some very beautiful and wonderful parts of him too. I am focusing solely on his limiting side for 1 reason: You are only as strong as your weakest link, right? Numerous studies have shown that who a couple is, in their worst, is what will determine their level of success, connection and sustainability. If you want a love that is limitless, growing, expansive, connective and nourishing, you are not going to find it with this guy as long as he chooses not to shift his “sour grapes and as long as you choose to keep sourcing his self-esteem and call it “being a good partner.” Yes, every once in a while we need our partners to give us a self esteem boost, but this is not an every once in a while occurrence. This is a strong pattern that exists between you guys. And that’s okay! This is where YOU are the creator of your love life. If he offers you enough of what you need and that’s good enough for you…then have at it! You can absolutely accept his sour grapes and stay in relationship with him and not need anything more from him than what you are getting.
One thing I will say about myself is that I take almost nothing personally (so that could be why I don’t really feel that I’m choosing my insecure ex to feel needed, etc.). Every single time you get triggered, you are taking his actions personally. Again, your triggers are the symptoms of beliefs (usually from the subconscious) about yourself and your life. So if your guy does something and you have a big response and need to pull away, it’s because of you taking it personally. Every single trigger you have, is your own…100% of the time, no exceptions. That’s why I’m directing you to work on your own insecurities/triggers, because he sure isn’t going to change…but you can!
therapy only gives one the tools to better manage one’s issues, not to cure them. I’m going to share my experience with the therapists I have aligned with and who have helped me advance to who I am today. They ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt, kicked my ass. Yes, they gave me tools, but they also held me accountable to my stories and beliefs and they absolutely helped me heal. His therapist may not be effective and is not really challenging your guy’s way of living, or your guy truly may be resistant to change and not willing to do the work, so the therapist might be trying more indirect ways to help him shift into a higher, more conscious/connective way of living. Who knows! If the efforts your guy is making to “grow” is enough for you to feel okay about continuing forward and accepting his approach to life, that’s enough for you and it sounds like that is where you are at with all of it. You sound very clear about continuing to choose him as your love partner.
Oh, and finally, I’m hypergamous. Can you help me understand how this affects your decision with him? I’m not sure how this plays into your situation. You are looking for men that have an up-leveled status, yes? Am I understanding this correctly?
Heidi
I have a lot of guilt for hurting two of my friends, and it was a shit thing to do. Even if I did try and resist for a while. Let’s talk about this for a bit. How come you are still holding onto this guilt? What would it take for you to completely let this go and forgive yourself for your humanness?
I LOVE LOVE LOVE that he is being much more responsive. You are doing such a great job!!! How are YOU feeling? I’m sure you are so much happier now that you get to feel more connected to him. Are you still sensing any insecurities? How are you feeling inside about pulling back a bit and controlling your emotional reactions more? Has it been easy for you? Or are you having to manage yourself a lot?
I really love Byron Katie’s “THE WORK” method. It’s a really great approach for emotional management. Check it out! It’s one of many skills to put in your toolbox for when your insecurities get activated. https://thework.com/instruction-the-work-byron-katie/
Heidi
aaaaaah…..and now we finally get to it. I’m tired of waiting. I need to know the nature of JB’s interest in me Of course you do. It’s been how long now??? You guys have really developed a strong, strong friendship. My guess is, that’s about all he wants with you. Men (typically) will make it known when they want a woman. They make advances, they flirt, they show signs of interest. JB has become a really good friend and support and that’s about it. He may have endearing type of feelings towards you, but whatever it is that he does feel, it’s not enough to inspire him to move into romance with you.
Just know that if you say something, it will change things between you and him. You have to be willing to take that risk. It may change things permanently or it may change things temporarily, but it’s going to change things one way or another. Is that something you are willing to go risk? What EXACTLY do you want with him?
I love that you get to have your kids with you now and that you deeply enjoy them interacting with each other and being close to you. That is truly wonderful! And holy smokes, that is incredible that JB sent you that money. He truly cares for you. You are definitely an integral part of his life, there is not doubt about that. That’s so sad he lost his car to the flood. That’s intense!
Heidi
Hi Wendy,
I appreciate the stream of consciousness 🙂 It’s really good for you!!! And it’s good for me to see what all of it means to you!
Let’s talk about your choice to stay with a guy that you continually have to build-up. He is triggering you with all his judgments towards your friends/family and strangers and he expresses his resentments that he didn’t get to have the same opportunities. This is a guy who is living in a victim mentality. As long as he stays a victim, you will have to play the role of making him feel better about himself. So this is more about YOUR pattern, right?
You say you have high self-esteem, which of course you do AND you have low self-esteem. We ALL do. It’s just part of being human. I just want to pose a question that can maybe get you exploring deeper into this choice to stay with him for so long. Do you think it’s possible that your subconscious would be choosing a guy who is highly insecure, so you can feel better about yourself? He makes you feel needed. He is so insecure which makes you feel in control and secure, right? I definitely had this very strong pattern when dating. I am a very high-functioning person with a lot of confidence. As I dug deeper into myself and my patterns, I realized I was choosing to be connected to men that felt intimated by me or had a lot of low self-esteem, or who were much less put together than me. This allowed me to feel good about myself. This allowed me to feel needed and wanted. I heard over and over and over again, some variation of “wow! You know so much. You are amazing! I’ve never met a girl like you. I’ve never felt so known by anyone before.” I really saw how this was sourcing my self-esteem. I REALLY realized the extent I was in this pattern when I came across a guy who knew just as much as me, didn’t need me to make him feel good, didn’t need me to teach him a dam thing and was high functioning all on his own – without me. I literally didn’t know what to do with myself. I heard myself say “What could you possibly offer this guy? How can I be of any value to him or attractive to him if I have nothing to teach him or show him or provide for him?” MANY long stories short, I had a lot of healing to do to 100% feel my value and be attracted to a man who was just as high functioning as I was. I am valuable just because I am. I don’t want to be his teacher, I don’t want to be a source of his self-esteem, I don’t want to be his source of motivation for growth…I just want to be me and support him while he also supports me. I want to be an equal with my guy, not above him (which is always what I chose). Could it be possible that you are doing this same thing? He is quite young emotionally. He doesn’t work through his problems. He runs away and will break up with you. He blames you for how he feels, he blames his parents for not giving him enough, therefore, nothing is ever really HIS responsibility. He can keep passing along his hurt to everyone else, instead of taking ownership. Again, as long as he chooses to stay in a relationship with himself as a victim, you will just go another 10 years of you saving him and being broken up with at least once a year. YOU are the second half of this design. You participate in it. So if you don’t want this anymore, then you need to change something.
I understand there are also MANY wonderful things about him, otherwise you wouldn’t be with him for so long. There is a wonderful connection that keeps pulling you guys back together. The thing is though, it’s just not enough. I wish love and connection were enough to source a relationship. So if you want to keep fighting for this, you only have control over yourself. Expect that he will continue to be resentful, jealous, insecure, judgmental and a victim. Expect that he will continue to break up with you and expect that he will perpetually get worse, year after year as long as he keeps blaming. This is part of the man who you are choosing. So what can you do to deal with your triggers? How can you communicate differently so that it won’t trigger his need to break up? How can
My point being…when you choose a relationship with someone you are constantly having to reassure, support and encourage because he doesn’t have his own internal self-esteem, it’s YOUR low self-esteem that is choosing this design. In essence, you both are doing the same exact thing to each other, just from different sides. You BOTH have low self-esteem that is being fed by each other. He is a victim so you save him and that makes him feel REALLY good to be wanted and cared about. You get to rescue and save him and feel needed which makes YOU feel REALLY valuable in his life. Does this make sense?
I know I am pretty much focusing on just the hard stuff, but the bottom line is you are only as strong as your weakest link. You guys have some weak links in your relationship that are really limiting your love and connection. So now what? What are you willing to do for yourself? He is who he is and your job is to accept him for exactly who he is. That means breakups when his stress if high enough, that means a victim mentality so he will always blame you or someone else for how he feels and that means dealing with a very emotionally fragile partner. If you want to keep choosing this man, then what can you do to love and accept yourself in this choice? What can you do to fully embrace him, as is, with no agenda for him to change? What can you do for yourself to help clear those triggers in you so you can find more peace with him? What can you do to build better communication skills? What can you do to better navigate his triggers so he doesn’t break up with you again?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Great to hear from you! I always get excited to see that you posted, because you always have the best updates!
The way I like to start the non-negotiable list is to list EVERYTHING you want in a guy. Leave nothing out. Wish for the smallest, most insignificant things, list things that are even surface and pretentious (i.e. I want a guy with a defined body – or a guy that is taller than me). Using Tim as an example is a GOOD thing. He is creating and fulfilling your standards. It’s how we discover our non-negotiables…through experience. Use Tim and every other guy you have dated. Even use your friends, because the foundation to a strong romantic relationship, is friendship.
Yes, I am seeing a lot of breakups as well. People, in general, just do not have the education nor skill set about how to keep a relationship alive and well nourished. People rely waaaaaay to much on their feelings of connection to carry them through, when that connection has to be ACTIVELY and CONSCIOUSLY cared for, in order to keep the flame going. The flame will die so subtly (especially with kids as a distraction) and people will just ignore it…until they can’t anymore.
That’s why my mission is to really educate as many people as possible about how to choose a partner that first and foremost has the qualities needed for a sustainable relationship and secondly, is committed to the growth of the relationship. That’s why the non-negotiable list is so important. To actually put it down on paper and to be challenged on every level, is a very different process than just thinking about it in your mind. I’ve taught this course many times and not once has someone not been shocked at how much they didn’t know about themselves and their needs when it comes to love.
Heidi
Hi Wendy! No, it wasn’t 3:26am when I wrote back to you. I’m in a different time zone than you are. That would be pretty serious dedication, right?? LOL
Thank you for sharing more about your process. It helped me understand just a little bit more about you. Let’s talk about this question:
Is it a bad thing that I indulge myself by thinking about the unkind things I’d like to say to him when I’m internally venting?) The very first thing to understand is that when your boyfriend (or anyone for that matter) triggers you, your reaction is about YOU, not them. Your boyfriend could do the same exact behaviors with a different girlfriend and she would not have the same reactions as you, right?? So first and foremost, I want to encourage you to shift your mindset a bit. There is nothing wrong with you indulging yourself and thinking about all the things you’d like to say to him, as long as that is not where it stops. I know you tend to shift into thinking about the positive things which is great! However, you skip a very important part of the whole process….YOU. To be blunt, you are wanting him be different. You are wanting him to behave in certain ways so YOU can feel happy. Basically, you are putting your peace and happiness in HIS hands instead of taking responsibility for your own happiness first and foremost. When someone triggers me into a negative response, my very first question is, “What is being triggered IN ME right now?” I connect deeply with myself and pay attention to the story I have created around the hurt I’m feeling. It might be “He doesn’t care about me” or “If he really loved me, he would pay more attention” or “He is not emotionally available for me.” Those are the stories we create about ourselves and the other person in reaction to the trigger. We ALL do this. If you understand that the feelings you have, fueled by the story you create, are NOT facts, then you have some work to do to get to the core truth. For example, if I have a story like “He doesn’t really value me” and I feel hurt by his actions of not responding to my texts or phone calls very often, I can go down the rabbit hole and really connect to a part of me that feels the hurt of rejection. I can connect that original rejection to a father who made work more important than his family and who was very emotionally unavailable. So the current situation is really triggering my past feelings that I have not resolved yet. What these moments of triggers are offering you, is information about the wounds and hurts you are still carrying from your past and your triggers have original moments where they were created. Your current boyfriend is just the trigger, not the cause of what you are feeling.I like to use the SUD Scale. Subjective Units of Distress (or distrubance) Scale. It’s a scale from 0-10 – 10 being the most Distress. So when I get triggered, I know that if my emotional reaction is over a 5, I am in a bigger trigger and a bigger network of emotions have been activated. When this happens, our emotions take over and our brain enters into a primal, lower state. This is why it’s always said to never make decisions when you are under higher emotions. We literally lose our ability to think clearly. So my rule of thumb is this…if I am over a 5, I need to really work on exploring what my trigger is EXACTLY, work with that part of myself and clear/heal/release what I discover. THEN…I come back to my partner, once I am under a 5 and have access to my critical/higher levels of thinking, and we have and ADULT conversation about what happened and we problem solve from that space. (the higher the number you give your emotions/disturbance, the more the wounded/child energy it is). The moment you are triggered enough to pull away from him and go silent, you are definitely over a 5. The thing that is missing in your process is you actually are not healing/releasing anything WITHIN YOU. You may calm down in 24 hours, as you have good practice as pushing your feelings down and rationalizing away your feelings. All that’s happening when you do that is those feelings get buried and will resurface over and over and over again. This is why triggers are such a gift. It helps us see where we are stuck and gives us an opportunity to heal.
In essence, it’s not your boyfriend’s fault that you have the level of reactions you do. If anything, he is giving you a gift by triggering areas in you that really would love some attention and are ready to be paid attention to, healed and released. It’s not to say that his behaviors are not tough to deal with. There is ALWAYS going to be something to deal with in every relationship, right? It’s more about HOW we deal with those triggers that can make or break a relationship. The moment you start to blame him for how you feel, you instantly become a victim and give him your power. Instead, take ownership for how you are feeling. Take ownership in your own happiness and feeling of peace.
I just had a conversation last night with a friend where he was just not showing up very well. I got to a space of acceptance of who he is, dealt with my feelings of rejection and got myself into a space of acceptance of who he is right now. In that acceptance, I was okay with stepping back from the friendship. THEN, I talked with him and just let him know what I was feeling and why and that I accept him for exactly who he is. He does not need to change. However, it also means I’m going to just have less needs in the friendship and I just was not going to invest as much. He instantly responded with compassion, understanding and validation of my experience and HE chose to change…not because I asked him to, but because he WANTED to. I didn’t need him to change as I have no control over what someone wants to do or be. The only thing I have control over is myself. The friendship, as it was, was not fulfilling me so that meant I can change and feel better about the friendship if I stepped back more. This is how I held onto my power and took responsibility for MY needs instead of putting it on him. If BOTH people really viewed relationship this way, where each person owns their feelings, works with their feelings and triggers and stops pointing the finger, THEN…you have a very powerful, healthy, loving relationship.
I know this is a lot. Hopefully it all makes sense. Let me know your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Megan,
Now you can better understand what he is going through, right? Your fears and nagging and feelings of betrayal and rejection, come to the surface when he doesn’t respond in the way you need. I want to encourage you to REALLY work with those feelings. You are fooling yourself if you think you can just all of a sudden decide “I don’t want to be like that anymore.” Truth is, all those feelings are still there and going to be there FOREVER, until you deal with them directly. The same is true for him. You BOTH are carrying baggage from the past into this relationship (I don’t know anyone who doesn’t do that…it’s just normal and part of relationship). The relationships that last and really grow strong bonds are the one where BOTH people are willing to work through all the shit that gets triggered by each other. Yes, you can change your behavior by giving him more space and consciously choose not to nag him, but those feelings you carry inside will still live in you and still affect your relationship with him.
What you are doing is really working and that is fabulous! You are starting to get what you want and that absolutely feels really good, right? What happens when you get hurt again though? What happens when those feelings of rejection and abandonment come up again? Because it’s GUARANTEED they will. How can you work with your feelings NOW and help yourself heal so that you can better handle when he doesn’t show up for you the way you need?
Heidi
Hi Wendy!
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story with us! Let’s see if we can break this down a bit more and help you get to a place of peace and clarity about what you would like to do next.
My first question is, it sounds like the last 3 breakups are originating from him triggering you, so how are you handling him when you get triggered? How do you communicate to him what is happening for you? Are you getting triggered from the same behaviors or do you experience him changing each time you get back together?
I love and miss my bf, and I accept his emotional baggage (because most of time it doesn’t affect us), but this time he really dropped his suitcase on me. Six breakups in seven years. Is it time to stay broken up with him? Can you accept his emotional baggage even though it does affect your relationship? You will NEVER find someone baggage free, so the question is more about can you accept HIS particular baggage? His baggage is also triggering your baggage, so what if you worked on your own baggage for a while? You would get less triggered, right? This is just a guess, as I don’t know what your triggers are.
I want to encourage you not to focus on “6 breakups in 7 years.” Yes, that is an important thing to look at, but what is the core issue here? What is his part and what is your part that is creating this design? What can YOU do to shift this pattern? If you want to stay with him, then how you both interact with each other through challenges needs to shift. It will take practice though. You BOTH have to be willing and make agreements about how you will work together. Is this something you want to do? Do you think he would be willing as well?
Heidi
Hi Lelah,
We are so glad you are here. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I can feel your heart breaking. You have put in a lot of effort and have been EXTREMELY patient with this guy.
I do have some questions. What are your ages? Why only once a week? Is he not willing to see you more than that? During the rest of the week, do you guys keep connecting through texts or phone calls? From what it sounds like, you guys are not exclusive, right? He isn’t willing to commit, so technically you or he can go on dates with other people. Am I understanding this correctly?
You say you can’t imagine your life without him. I hate to say this, but he is barely in it (compared to a more healthy relationship design where people actually start to build their lives TOGETHER). You are trying to make a relationship work with a guy who doesn’t want one. He would rather be in relationship with his anger and hurt than to let you in. That anger and hurt is meant to protect him. He never wants to hurt like that again. This is a guy who is not willing to face his feelings, not willing to forgive and not willing to risk again. He is a VERY emotionally fragile man.
Here you are, spending all of your energy trying to make him feel safe and show him that you are not his ex and that you are going to offer him a different experience….FOR A YEAR! How long are you planning on trying to make HIM feel better? That’s a lot of work with nothing to show for it after this long. Besides, you CANNOT fix him. What he is carrying inside, is for him to heal, not you. I wish we could actually fix peoples’ hurts through our love and kindness, but that will only go so far. A person has to also DIRECTLY deal with their feelings, fears and hurts if they are actually going to heal. All he has done is buried everything. That’s why he feels his anger with you. You trigger it to come out of hiding. It’s not going to go away. It will only get worse over time.
So if you can’t fix him or change him or prove to him that you are safe, then what? If you want to stay with him, it’s about you accepting him for EXACTLY who he is. Is that something you can do? Can you find peace in this once a week design with him?
Heidi
Hi Megan,
Thank you for sharing more details. It’s so hard to do the long distance thing, especially when the relationship is so new. I know you guys have known each other for a long time which definitely helps, but it’s still a very new romantic relationship. There is so much to learn about how you both function on the romantic side of things.
As far as activating his hero instinct, I think you are already doing a great job. With distance, the most you can do is asking them for advice….having a problem they can help you solve. You don’t want to overuse that though. I know you so desperately want him to connect more and I know you are feeling like he might be changing his mind about you coming to Germany. Have you ever approached him about this directly? You are sensing something and it’s important for you to be straight up about that. If you did, what was his response?
He has A LOT to face still. It sounds like his divorce is still pretty fresh “emotionally” for him. As long as he is not resolved, complete and putting the past in the past, he will not be fully available for you. My guess is, this is one of the biggest reasons he is not moving forward with you in the ways that you originally agreed. He is still very fearful. That fear, as long as he doesn’t deal with it, will be a block whose job it is to prevent intimacy. The fear can absolutely be bigger than any love he may feel for you. In fact, the more he may start to love you, the bigger the fear will become. Have you ever talked to him about seeing a therapist? I know you said you think he’d be open to it, but getting therapy is much easier to digest for PTSD vs. hurt and fear from a divorce. He needs help. People think that once the hurt stops going away over time, that things have been resolved, but reality is, unless those feelings are dealt with directly and consciously, they just get buried, only to rear their ugly heads later on. If he is not willing to get help or deal with his feelings (beyond talking about them), then you have a pretty looooong and tough road ahead of you. You will be spending most of your energy and attention trying to break down his walls.
Thoughts?
Heidi
