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Hi Fiona,
I’m so so sorry for what you are going through. It is incredibly difficult to feel that powerlessness to change things the way you want and need. It’s so hard to watch your partner choose not to work on things. It’s painful and extremely difficult.
I’m wondering, what are you afraid is going to happen if your kids grow up in a “broken” family? It sounds like even if he were to come back, things would be broken anyways, as he is not willing to be a partner with you. So together or not, it’s broken, right? Kids feel that! I remember being sooooo relieved when my parents finally separated. They were so unhappy together and once they went their separate ways, BOTH my parents were more peaceful and available for me. I liked them better. That was my experience of course and I”m guessing that was not your experience, correct?
He won’t do counselling or coaching, just wants to separate and move forward and tells me he doesn’t feel heard because I am not giving in to what he wants. This is a tough one Fiona. Do you REALLY want to be the only one in the relationship doing any work to repair things? The truth is, he would rather be in a relationship with his fear, his resentment, his anger, his hurt than to be connected. His choices have NOTHING to do with you. His choice to quit is about HIM. I’m curious…have you known him to be a forgiving person, right from the beginning? My guess is, he has quite the history of holding onto things and making checklists in his mind. I could be wrong. How he is behaving and what he is choosing is so sad. He is going to be one miserable person with how he is designing his life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Wow! I can’t believe you actually went back and read some of your responses and looked at how Kanya triggered you in different ways. What a gift to discover that you are no longer triggered! Wow! It’s like reading a diary, right? You have changed sooooo much and in HUGE ways since you first signed on, it’s really incredible. We normally do not get to have that privilege of someone staying with us long enough to see those shifts. I understand your feeling about her guidance to not give up alimony because you are trusting in God. I get what she is saying and I get your response to it. I gotta say…it’s really tough on this forum. Sooooo many times how I intended to come across, is not at all what happens. You have been someone to bring that to my attention. I LOVE people who are strong enough to push back against my guidance so I can self correct or explain things differently so it’s better received. I’ve always appreciated your strength!
Occasionally, i look at the other threads to see what kind of issues other women are having, and i read your responses, and i think to myself – i DO NOT have the patience for that! lol 🙂 This made me laugh!!! Yes! I have had to develop patience. This forum has been really good for me to learn how to take baby steps with people. I’m personally a leaper. I will jump in, head first and go for it. I want to know / hear the truth, no matter how it will make me feel. When I first started here, I had to learn to tone it down and meet people where they were at vs. taking them all the way to the depths of truth they weren’t ready to hear. It’s still hard sometimes though, I admit. Whenever I struggle and my judgment comes up, I stop and ask God to show me the truth about this person, with HIS eyes and not my own. That usually helps 🙂 It’s funny that you think I was nicer. I wouldn’t say that at all! I have been pretty tough with you many times and sometimes wondered if I pushed too far. Kanya is always much nicer than I am in most of her posts! LOL.
I am not able to receive FROM everyone the same way. I totally get what you are saying and 100% agree. I get the cultural aspects as well. You gave some good examples!
Of course, i questioned myself about my impulsive generosity — was i giving away the money God had given me for that application?! lol 😀 But i didn’t want to use such a precious gift for something as ordinary as an application! LOL. I get it! I invite you to look at something. What if money wasn’t called money and it was called abundance. What if you just created a cycle of abundance and money was just one of the physical elements of abundance? If you create a cycle of abundance, it can look sooooo many ways. For example, part of my personal way to GIVE to the world is by picking up extra dog poop at the park, putting the grocery carts back in the appropriate spot instead of leaving them in the parking spot and making sure I offer compliments to someone on a daily basis. This ADDS to the world, right? And then when I need help, I also am taken care of in the form of abundance. Sometimes that is money, sometimes it’s compliments, sometimes it’s new clients etc. JB was inspired to help you with something you needed help with. I love that you felt the beauty and energy behind his gift! I also am noticing a flavor of something negative about money in particular. You say you didn’t want to use such a precious gift for something as ordinary as an application, but then I say…the application was for YOU. That gift was for YOU and there is nothing ordinary about YOU. So you give it GOD because somehow you believe something or someone was more deserving of the “preciousness” than you were. I’m not questioning your choice. I am questioning the energy behind your choice. Make sense?
because, all the good things that i see in myself, i WORKED for it! I am happy because I worked on myself! And some of the things i had to overcome were wounds that they left in me from negligence! I also protected my kids from the things that my parents failed to protect me from. So, what exactly DID i receive from my parents? And they were above average as far as Indian parents go. So, in the eyes of everyone else, they set me up for a success. But they didn’t. The gift they gave you was struggle. They showed you who you didn’t want to be as a person and as a parent. They caused a lot of damage, but had they not done that, you wouldn’t know how to heal or forgive or have to develop resilience. I know they didn’t consciously make these choices of course. They did the best they knew how and it wasn’t enough. Their love is limited AND it inspired you to be more than them, right?
Heidi
I’m so glad you get to go home for Christmas for that long! Any special plans? What about Thanksgiving?
Yes, eyes and smiles can make or break someone’s attractiveness right? I’m a sucker for those same things. Just out of curiosity, are you able to get a sense of a person by looking at their eyes in a picture? It’s a fun game I started out doing about 10 years ago and now, it’s actually a skill I have. I can look at a picture and know A LOT about someone by looking at their eyes. Not necessarily details, but general tendencies, both positive and negative. It’s definitely a skill that comes in handy when it comes to online dating. I started by just asking my friends to show me pictures of people they knew, but I didn’t. I would empty my mind and look at the picture and allow my intuition to take over. A sense about a person would come forward. Now that I’ve practiced for so long, I get a lot more information about a person. It’s fascinating!
Hopefully you were able to help your SOS friend! He/she is lucky to have you!
Heidi
Hi Victoria,
Welcome! Thank you for coming here and sharing your story. No judgment at all. We are here to help and guide you in the best ways possible. I can understand why you feel so shocked and why this is so hard for you. You went from an abusive marriage to being treated like a queen. It’s a complete turnaround, so of course you would be attracted and drawn to him, despite him being married. It’s a very complicated situation you are involved in and there are a lot of layers to work through, so stay with us as we take you through the journey of unwrapping everything you are dealing with.
Let’s just start with the obvious. He wasn’t ready to move on. Despite him having a passionless/loveless marriage, you have to look at the fact that it’s what he was choosing. SOMETHING was keeping him with her, despite him feeling unfulfilled. Then you come along and wake him up, so to speak. You made him feel things he hadn’t felt in a long time. You brought him back to life. It’s great, but it also was dangerous to step into a relationship with him, because he hadn’t completed his previous relationship. I’m not surprised by the way he is acting. It is a year later and now all his “unfinished” business, both logistical and emotional is coming to the surface. He never truly dealt with the loss of his marriage and wife, he never truly dealt with what it means to get a divorce, he never truly dealt with his reasons for staying in a loveless marriage. It took his wife finding out before a divorce happened. What stopped him from just initiating it himself??? Have you ever thought about that? To me, that tells me he is not very good at dealing with his deeper emotions and not really willing to face what lives inside of him. He would rather use EXTERNAL sources of pleasure (money, model wife, you) to help him feel better instead of dealing with the real issues he carries inside. Eventually, just like what is happening right now, he will have to face the consequences of his choice to ignore what he feels like on the inside…and you are collateral damage.
It’s not to say that what he felt for you wasn’t real or powerful. It absolutely was! It just doesn’t change that he has some serious baggage and he is not dealing with it and you are seeing the results of that. Have you ever asked what happened in their marriage and why it broke? I know it was loveless, but what happened for it even get that way?
You also came out of an abusive marriage. Did you or are you in therapy or working with someone about the traumas you incurred? Have you worked with yourself deeply as to the reasons you were in this kind of marriage?
First and foremost, it’s important to get VERY CLEAR about the kind of man he is and how he functions. He has been your “prince” and rescued you from a horrible marriage (not literally, but emotionally speaking) and so there is an element of “blindness” happening here. There are red flags, so it’s important to start to look at those and really begin to see whether this guy is healthy for you or not. I know he made you feel amazing and treated you incredibly well AND he also ripped all of that away in seconds, without talking with you about how he is feeling, without warning, without involving you in the decision making. His decision was not a TEAM/PARTER kind of decision. He just made the decision and all of a sudden your life has been upended. RED FLAG HERE!!! He is letting his emotions control him and not being an adult or partner in the process. Even if you were to get back together, he could absolutely do this again. Is this what you want to step back into?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Wow! Your trip to Point Pelee sounds fantastic. I’m not a super fan of the wind, but it sounds like it created quite the energy in the water. I’m so glad you got to get out and see something like that!
Ha! Long hair is back in! I remember it being “the thing” when I was in high school, and now I’m seeing it everywhere! At least in Boulder. I’m not sure how it is out in the rest of the world, but I’d say Thor brought it back with his extreme hotness as an Avenger. LOL. I actually noticed how more and more guys were growing their hair out after that first movie. Who knows, but a guy who can rock the long hair has something extra sexy about them, right? As long as it looks good and it’s not a birds nest (which you see a lot of in Boulder). How fun that Austin showed up in your dream…LOL. Enjoy that!!!
So what are you going to do for your boring weekends?
Heidi
LOL…yes, your circles do make sense! I totally get all of it..at least I think I do 🙂
And, since i AM receiving something, which i cannot give back — it IS a debt. Whether i use it or squander it, it IS still a debt. If it’s NOT a debt, it means there is no significance or value to the person who helped me. First, I’m going to invite you to look at this differently. If you are receiving something, can you just not receive it? Why does there have to be an exchange? Also, there is a much bigger picture in these exchanges. For example, I had to have a few abdominal surgeries in the past 6 months. During my recovery, I had sooooooo much help. People sent me gift cards for food, they came and walked my dog, they sent me money since I was out of work for a while, they brought me food etc. I was amazed at how well I was taken care of. It was soooo beautiful! And you know what? I don’t owe them anything. They wanted to give because it felt good to them. The bigger picture here is that I am someone who gives A LOT in this world. So in my mind, I was just receiving back what I have given so freely (without needing something in return). For example, my neighbor is in a lot of pain in his back right now. I am giving him a free session with me this weekend. This does not mean he is indebted to me now. I give because I want to help and I know at some point, I will receive help from someone else down the road. Do you see the bigger picture here? I’m also curious…what would you feel like if you just received something, without creating a debt? What does it feel like to just purely receive with any exchange?
So when i see myself as being indebted to a person for something, it isn’t Power that i am putting in their hands, it is Value. THEY matter to me! They have brought something into my life that helped me. The fact that it was specifically them and not someone else, makes THEM significant. Let’s talk about this a bit more. It’s one thing to value someone and appreciate them for their help, but it’s another level becoming indebted to them. Once you feel you “owe” them, you are giving them power in your life. I would suggest to really look at the energy behind this “debt” you create in your mind. JB gave you money, but that doesn’t mean you owe him. Somewhere down the line, you will pay it forward and affect someone else. Did you ever see that movie??? OMG I balled my eyes out…it was such a good movie.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE what you are learning from James French. Animals are such great teachers, right??? I do a lot of dog sitting and I’m very conscious about creating a safe space and communicating with them on their level. I am well loved in return!
That’s so interesting that the woman wanted to spell your name HER way. Whaaaattt??? Goodness, I can’t even imagine being in a relationship with that woman. Yuk! I’m glad you said something! You are spot on! I don’t know if you have ever looked up your name numerologically. Names are SUPER significant and have a TON of meaning and the spelling DOES matter!
Okay…I gotta say that I had no idea I had that kind of impact on your life! Wow! I’m seriously blown away and received your words all the way into my heart. You seriously have put a huge smile on my face. Kanya was so much nicer than I am, so a lot of people end up really responding to her, understandably, so I’m soooo freakin happy to hear I have you in my corner!!! LOL I truly am honored because you are not someone who takes things lightly and you challenge and push and explore. To have your respect and attention means something to me! Thank you for sharing this with me!
Lastly, I LOVE the peace you get to feel in the church. It’s sooooo darn important and I love that you have a place to go to where you can easily activate it and connect with peace and God in the quietness. It’s healing and like you said, creates space for higher level connections.
Heidi
Hey there!
Wow! I am soooo so sorry for what you are having to go through. It sounds like there really are a lot of layers to work through. I just have a few questions.
You said you left…did you move out? How long have you been married? How old are your kids? Have you ever had honest conversations with him where you guys talk about what your challenges are in the marriage?
I know you don’t want him to cheat on you, but he already has with his ex. He is in a relationship with her. I’m wondering where your boundaries are. Is he allowed to just do whatever he wants and you plan on doing all the work to figure out how to stay together? As long as you don’t have boundaries, he will never respect you…because you are not respecting yourself. YOU teach him how to treat you. Since you are just letting him do whatever he wants, despite how it makes you feel, you are not honoring your feelings, your needs, your boundaries. YOU don’t exist in this “relationship.” So as long as you stay in that mode, you will never catch his attention.
What are some of your thoughts about why he changed after the kids? How did he change? What were you guys fighting about so much?
Bottom line is, you guys have A LOT happening between you. You cannot try an save your marriage with the same energy that broke it in the first place. If he is not willing to change or work on the marriage, then there is not much you can do. It takes 2 people. What you CAN do, is change yourself. Look at the areas where you weren’t a good partner. Find better ways to communicate with him. Start to set some boundaries. Start to connect to YOUR strength and power instead of giving it all to him.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Wendy,
Wow! It’s really over. I’m happy to hear that you guys are remaining friends and that everything feels good. It makes separating that much easier. You both have a bit of a roller coaster ride to go through as you enter into all the phases that a breakup will bring. We are here for you, should you need that support!
Dr. Gottman posited that only 35% of men have emotional intelligence, and I would imagine that a large percentage of those men had to walk through fire to develop it. What about the other 65%? Should we just leave them to their MGTOW or Incel movements because women can’t feel emotionally safe with them? 65% is a large number of men behaving … like men. Absolutely leave them! You are NOT their teacher nor their savior. Other women who have lower standards can have that 65% of men. I personally will not settle and expect to find one of those men in the 35%.
So is the problem with men or with women?) The problem is with BOTH. Men obviously need to take responsibility for who they are and women need to take responsibility for supporting and accepting that kind of behavior and joining in the dysfunction. Yes, I would agree that those men (and women) who are more developed have earned emotional intelligence by walking through fire. I personally could never be with a man who hasn’t walked through fire and who hasn’t developed the skillset/mindset/growth from it.
Is there a man who is a non-religious public figure that you think comes close to being an emotionally intelligent man? I’m trying to figure out how this unicorn presents. I don’t know your type, but I listen to podcasts with Aubrey Marcus – he is my favorite. He embodies a VERY strong divine masculine but also knows how to express divine feminine energy. He was super big in the fitness industry but has shifted into the self-help/transformation realm. He has very intelligent conversations. I also listen to Paul Chek, Rich Roll and the HEAL podcast. They all interview a TON of emotionally intelligent men and in my mind, hearing soooooo many interviews with healers, transformers and change-makers that are men, it makes me feel like they are EVERYWHERE!!! Peter Crone is a very powerful coach (he was interviewed on the HEAL podcast). No, I don’t know any in my small little corner of the world, but who cares. I know they exist and it seems like there are PLENTY! That’s what I choose to believe.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Caroline!
We LOVE your wallowing. No need to apologize. You are going through something incredibly difficult right now and we are here to support you through this. You are not alone and your wallowing is to be expected. You are having to let go of a dream you created around him about your future together and you are having to release a connection that has been so special and important to you. There is nothing easy about that. Be kind to yourself. It’s a freakin’ rollercoaster ride in the beginning after a breakup.
First thing I want to invite you to do…pay attention to what you are saying to yourself and what you are saying about what has happened. For example, you say: wishing that he didn’t just throw me away. You are creating a story around what happened that is causing the suffering you are feeling. If you believe that he “is throwing you away” then of course you are going to suffer. If you believe instead that “He wasn’t willing to work on himself or talk about our challenges, therefore we are not a good team together” then you have a story that is more accurate and that supports you. You need to connect to the story you are telling yourself and identify the parts that are really causing harm to your self-esteem. This is why you feel so horrible. Check out this website. “The Work” is a really powerful method to really work with your emotions and stories around a situation. https://thework.com/
I also like to use a technique I call “finish the story.” When you just say “he threw me away” and then keep looping and looping around that thought and feeling, you get sucked into feeling more and more shitty. Instead, finish that statement with the truth. For example, “He threw me away AND I am loveable, worth fighting for and I’m a badass goddess that deserves a higher functioning man.” It doesn’t matter whether you believe it or not, say it anyways. You need to counteract those lies, low self-esteem statements with positive thoughts and truths. You are letting the lies wreak havoc on your system, so there is only one way to go…and that’s down. Pull yourself back up. Talk to friends who know you and ask for their help by telling you why they like you. Fill yourself with positive and encouraging voices by listening to podcasts, songs, watching movies where the heroine overcomes a HUGE obstacle (i.e. Under the Tuscan Sun). You need to fight for yourself and these are just a couple of ways to do it. Here is a Tedx Talk that will explain what happens after a breakup. https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM
I was angry that these two who are NOT A MATCH are still trying to make things work (although incredibly unhealthy) and I’m the one who was just trying to do the right thing by someone but somehow I’m not worth fighting for, I’m not worth it to him. It made me feel like shit. My self-confidence is totally in the drain right now. They ARE a match because they are both agreeing to participate and function at a certain level…they both are agreeing to be unhealthy. Your guy is not willing to fight for you, because he isn’t willing to fight for himself. He cannot offer something to you he is not even able to do for himself. This has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with him and his relationship with fear. He would rather stay in fear and let it control his life than to face it and fight for a higher level of connection. He gets to choose that for himself. Is that what you would want to choose for yourself? You are alone because you have standards as to how you are treated. Your sister and her ex are together again because their standards are much lower. It takes a lot of self-esteem to say no to participating in unhealthy patterns and exchanges. So again, start working on shifting your story that he threw you away or isn’t willing to fight for you and instead connect to the truth that he doesn’t love himself very much, he isn’t fighting for himself and that he is throwing himself away.
Thoughts?
Heidi
I forgot to respond to this part, so I wanted to circle back:
Because I have romanticized his plight! He is like the brooding male hero in the bodice rippers that I read as a teenager — a tormented but good-hearted man who is redeemed and brought out of his darkness and into the light by the heroine! As I have already said, my Florence Nightingale days are behind me. I am not seeing how your Florence Nightingale days are behind you. Are you not needing to encourage him and build him up and trying to show him the “light” whenever he is in his victim or blaming/judging? You are rescuing him, right? Can you explain to me why you believe you are NOT rescuing him and NOT playing the heroine?
While my guy can’t hold a candle to Hamlet, he has just enough torment in him to be fascinating rather than repellent to me. But also triggering, alas. Have you ever really explored why you are fascinated by torment? Have you explored why torment/low self-esteem/judgment/victim mentality would be interesting/entertaining enough for you that you would want to be in a relationship with it?
Heidi
Do you believe that some people are born with a negative, glass-half-empty disposition? If not, does it get imprinted on a person in childhood? He warned me in the beginning that he is a negative person and that he believes he got that trait from his mother. This is absolutely possible. Have you ever studied the Enneagram? It’s an incredibly powerful tool that identifies the essence of a person, not personality traits. It identifies who a person is and always will be, regardless of how they were raised, regardless of their environment and regardless of any programming. Why someone is the way they are can be passed down through the genes too. In studies, it’s believed it can go back 7 generations, so 7 generations behind him, someone could have become severely depressed or angry or resentful or judgmental and they passed that down the lineage. We do know that emotional states are passed down in the genetic code, just as much as physical traits. Who knows why he is the way he is and it honestly doesn’t matter. What matters is that he is choosing to align with victim/judgmental energy and he wants to stay that way. So that means you have to either adapt if you want to stay with him (you will very slowly lose yourself) or choose something more high functioning. I think it’s kind of ironic that you are hypergamous and hold to that standard yet you will stay with a man who is at the emotional level of a teenager and is way under-functioning compared to you when it comes to his approach to life.
Have you ever been with an emotionally intelligent man? Have you ever been with a man who doesn’t blame, who has accountability, who is interested and committed to growth and who is present for and with you?
Heidi
I really am so loving how fast you are moving!!! You are a completely different person than when you first joined this forum. It’s like the engine in you got ignited and you just have never looked back. It truly is beautiful and I’m so honored to get to witness your life!
Okay…the Enneagram. The reason why you can be the same number your entire life, is because the number represents your essence. Your essence NEVER changes. It is the foundation on which you build. The Enneagram helps you understand your communication style, your struggles, your gifts, your challenges etc. However, that doesn’t mean that you don’t display characteristics or flavors of other numbers. We all definitely express traits from other numbers, but our foundation is 1 number. For example, I LOVE LOVE LOVE to deep dive. No matter how much I have changed in my life, that has always been me. When I am under stress, I retreat. No matter how much healing I do, my very initial response is to retreat. That is my essence and part of the my number being expressed. There are parts of you that will never change, regardless of what is happening on the outside world. This is your nature and that is what the Enneagram helps you understand about yourself and others. It truly is fascinating and is something you can study for decades. My teacher has been studying it for over 2 decades and there are still questions she cannot answer. I LOVE her as my teacher because she has no attachment to us knowing the Enneagram the way she does. There truly are MANY perspectives about how to know and use the Enneagram. Like religion or nutrition, or health or money…people are drawn to whatever perspective resonates for them. That’s how layered and deep the Enneagram is. It is far from simple and deserves to be studied and explored to it’s depth if someone is going to claim they know the Enneagram. We love to take a test and put ourselves and others in boxes so we can better understand, but the Enneagram doesn’t really allow you to do that. I’ve been studying it for 2 years off and on and I haven’t even scratched the surface! Susan Piver has been my teacher thus far. She is actually a world renowned meditation teacher and she will teach on the Enneagram usually once or twice a year. I would suggest signing up for her email list and she will notify people when her next class is. Here is her website: https://susanpiver.com/ Just scroll to the bottom and sign up for her newsletter. Her book “The Hard Questions” is spectacular!!! You should check it out! This is a class I just purchased. No clue if the guy is any good, but I figure I am going to hear all perspectives. https://www.soundstrue.com/products/the-enneagram-1?utm_source=Customer%20Service&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=S210907-Ecom-%20Enneagram-Picasso%20%28WVgu3b%29&_kx=dMvB3edQeiaBDLOVvLItLH5tngPZrfAOuCUkYJn5oCo%3D.JMDgaq
i think there’s a degree of ungratefulness in asking for something more or something else, when they’ve already done whatever they could. I understand your perspective. That IS one way to look at it. Could it also be possible that the person (i.e. your mom) does not actually know or understand your needs, therefore she is just doing what she is doing because it’s what SHE wants? Could it also be possible to be grateful for the effort put forth AND still teach people who YOU are by expressing your needs? If you never let your mom know what your needs are, then she is just going to do what she BELIEVES is necessary. Bottom line is, yes…people can be ungrateful for sure, but it doesn’t have to be that way. If you value and appreciate the efforts of your mom AND teach her what your needs are, your needs DO NOT cancel out your gratitude. They get to exist in the same space. Make sense?
So, when someone meets your need – and you go on to succeed because of their help, it also means it wouldn’t have been possible without their help. This is putting quite a bit of power in someone else’s hands. If you become successful, it’s because of you, not them. You took what they offered and put it use. You could easily receive help and do nothing with it, so does that make you indebted to them still, because they helped you? That’s not to say that some people view their help as a way to get you to owe them something down the line. You just have to be very aware of those kinds of people and the energy they offer their help with. Outside of those kinds of people and contracts and agreements you sign, you owe nothing to no one. The truth is, God helps us in a million different ways. You will be successful whether or not certain people help you along the way. Some will say no, some will say yes and you will get to where you are going one way or the other. I remember feeling sooooo guilty, driving to work and seeing a woman laying on the ground about 70 yards from the light I was at. Being trained to be a first responder (on a basic level), I could have gone over and helped her. There was someone there panicking and calling, so I knew EMS was on the way. It also would have been crazy for me to cross over 4 lanes, against traffic to get over there. At least that’s what I told myself. I just drove to work and prayed like crazy for her. A few days later, I drove by that spot and saw fresh flowers at that site. She had died. I felt TERRIBLE that I hadn’t stopped to help. My mom said something very wise to me. It was something to the effect of “Do you really think if she were meant to live, that God would only have relied on JUST YOU to save her? God is more powerful than that. If that woman was meant to live, God is powerful enough to inspire the right people to show up and help.” You get the gist, right? I’m just saying that no one person is responsible for your success and when someone helps you, to say you would not be successful without their help and therefore you owe them…is a VERY small and limited way to view your life and your success. God is much bigger than that in your life!
Heidi
OMG! I LOOOOVE pancakes! I haven’t had them in awhile and you just mentioning them make my mouth water. LOL! Were they just plain or did you add anything to them? You can do soooo many things to pancakes! There is a place here called “Snooze” and holy smokes, their variety of pancakes is soooo fun and yummy. Okay…enough of that…
Let’s break this down more so you can play with them a bit. You are really good at exploring, so I invite you to do this with these programs you have running in your belief system
Sometimes, it’s because i feel like making my needs known puts me in a vulnerable place, Yes, this will ALWAYS be true. The idea would be to be okay to be vulnerable and still maintain your strength and connection to yourself and not give your power away while opening up and being honest. and i don’t trust them with my vulnerability It’s very smart and self-loving to only be vulnerable with people who have earned that right to know the innermost parts of you. This is good you have boundaries around this! Sometimes, it’s because i already know that they cannot give me what i need. I get it! Sometimes this is true and sometimes, being vulnerable can just be about letting yourself be known, without any attachment to the outcome. For example, my ex and I still connect every once in a while and he can be a real ass sometimes. Who he has become is someone who isn’t really caring about my experience, so when he is an ass, I am vulnerable and let him know how that affects me, knowing full well he will most likely ignore it or try and defend. I do it strictly for me. I do it to use my voice and I do it to let him know he is being ineffective. Whether he wants to do something about that, is his choice, but I’m strong enough in myself to just say it, just for me. Sometimes, it’s because i know they are already doing their best and it’s ungrateful of me to ask for more. I want to invite you to really look deeply into this. Who taught you that asking for your needs is you being ungrateful? Is this actually true? Are you being ungrateful? Sometimes, it’s because i don’t like them enough to be indebted to them. Explain this a little further. How does asking for what you want, make you indebted to someone? Sometimes, i don’t want to impose on them. (This is the most frequent one with friends). This is another strong program. Your needs are a gift Vino. ALWAYS. Don’t you love when someone asks for your help and you can give it to them? It feels so good to get to help someone, doesn’t it? Your needs give that person an opportunity for growth, an opportunity to feel themselves give to you, and opportunity to know you deeper. Saying you are imposing on them is YOUR program and not theirs.
I”m so sorry, I think I may have missed this somewhere. Who is Johnny?
I”m glad to hear JB is making some plans with you again for an in-person experience. Since there are already plans in the making, maybe hold off a bit and see how that plays out. Maybe at the end of that time you spend together, you can invite him over for pancakes and see what he does.
I think there’s a difference between losing HIM and losing my Fantasy OF him. I want to lose the fantasy. I want to get to what is real – whatever it is. Will i lose his friendship from asking for more? i suppose it depends on how i ask? or what i ask for? I LOVE this. I love that you want to lose the fantasy of him. I hope he is willing to lose the fantasy of you as well. Seeing more of him or even talking to him more on the phone means he also has to risk being seen more. As you push a bit, you will see where he draws the line and that will give you some good information. I don’t know if you were joking or not, but I would not say that you want to find out the triggers. You saying that actually reminds me of the Enneagram. That might be something that you want to study. It’s an incredibly powerful system to understand the different personalities. People think it’s a personality test like many of the typing systems out there, but it’s not. It’s INCREDIBLY deep and layered and despite the multiple “tests” that are out there, you actually cannot take a test to know what number you are. Tests are there just to give you a starting place. The only way to know what number and subtype you are is to really get to know yourself deeply and to talk with someone who has extensively studied it to help guide you. My favorite part about the Enneagram is it has helped me get to know myself separate from my childhood traumas. Whenever I get triggered and have certain responses, I wondered, am I shutting down and becoming passive aggressive because of my traumas or am I just like that? The Enneagram can answer that. It literally identifies your character and traits according to your essence. It identifies your nature and not your nurture. Whatever number you figure out you are, that’s what you are forever, regardless of trauma or life circumstances. The reason it’s so powerful is can help you start to identify what characteristics you are dealing with in someone else and then learn how to speak to that person. My teacher gave me an example once where every time she brought a problem to her boss, he would ignore her and not pay attention to what she was saying. He was quite disinterested. She herself is the type to be extremely comfortable with “problems.” She feels like, “Let’s dive in and figure out what’s going on.” Once she slowed down and realized what number he was demonstrating, she realized he was behaving more like a dreamer. He was not the type to dive into problems, but instead the type to talk about the future. So she changed her languaging and presentation of her problem and he completely responded to her and all of a sudden became involved. That was a really long explanation, but it may be something that interests you. Let me know and I can direct you a bit.
Heidi
Oh I LOVE LOVE LOVE all of your thoughts! They are wonderful and beautiful and circular…that’s divine feminine energy at it’s best 🙂
Let’s get a little more grounded here. You guys have developed a VERY STRONG and beautiful friendship over technology, with little experience IN PERSON. This means BOTH of you have a very limiting view of each other. There are PLENTY of things for you guys to get upset about with each other, but you guys are not in person enough to truly trigger each other. There is still soooooo much to learn and know about each other, so maybe instead of asking him what direction you guys are heading in, how about just requesting more IN PERSON time. If he is not willing to even do that, then that’s enough information for you to know that he is not someone you can build a romantic connection/relationship with. If he says he needs more time, then you know he carries an incredible amount of fear and that fear is waaaaaay stronger than any connection he is willing to build with you, so you basically will always just be in the “safe/fantasy” zone for him and that’s where you will stay. Which bring you back to this…he is not available for you in the way you are wanting romantically. But he is IS available for you as long as you stay in this particular design. He seems to feels safe with how things are right now. Thoughts on this?
Well — i hate drama. So i’m not going to CAUSE it. When i find myself with those who DO cause drama, i walk away. There’s nothing to gain from engaging in drama. So this makes me a very agreeable person. This doesn’t make you agreeable. This makes you not tolerant. There is a BIG difference. Agreeable means you lose yourself in the drama and you would rather keep the peace instead of be authentic and allow yourself to exist in the relationship. You are just not participating in the drama. This is you being you, not putting up with it and walking away. There is ALWAYS going to be drama on some level, but like you, I personally am not interested in sourcing it, so we either talk and resolve things like adults and move on, or I walk away. Do you see the difference?
if i’m willing to risk losing whatever we have between us — and my answer is always — if it’s in danger of being lost, it doesn’t have a strong foundation, so there’s no point in building on a shaky foundation anyway, so yes, it’s always worth the risk. JAre you sure? So you are saying that you are willing to ask for more from JB at the risk of losing him?
I think you should put up a profile regardless. Why not? It’s not going to hurt anything and you never know who you are going to meet. You might meet someone interesting and engaging and you might not. On some level, it will take the pressure off of JB. What would you talk about with other men, especially since you have JB in your life? Oh goodness, there is sooooo much to explore with people. You putting JB in the primary spot of “go-to” person is keeping your world pretty small. If JB can learn how to support you, so can other men. Why not give other guys the opportunity??
Heidi
Hi Wendy! This is such a great conversation! First, I’m not attached to you heading in one direction or the other. My job is to just shed some light on your situation and offer you different perspectives and take you as deep as you would like to go. In the end, I sure as heck can’t tell you what is best for you. Only YOU know that.
For him, it’s his sour grapes that drive him to continue to try to achieve in life and to prove his naysayers (including his deceased parents) wrong. People find their motivation in different ways and different places, so I can’t say that he’s flat-out wrong for where/how he is seeking his. Of course we all find ways to motivate ourselves. The thing I personally would not be comfortable with, is that the energy of which he is using to source his motivation is a toxic, low vibration and harmful energy, especially for himself. The moment he feels he needs to “defend” himself, he is giving his power away and becomes the victim. He is not learning how to stay empowered, confident and aligned with who he is, even in his failure. There are HUGE consequences he is facing because of the source of his motivation. Essentially, he never really ends up taking responsibility for himself and dealing with his life in an adult way. Victim mentality, blaming and judging is child energy, so that’s about the emotional level you will get from him, ALWAYS. Besides, let’s just simply look at the results of how he motivates himself…he is judgmental, he is emotionally fragile, he plays the victim and he breaks up with you about once per year. I would say the results of his choices speak for themselves. AND…I understand deeply why he is doing what he is doing. I have been there and had to work VERY hard to heal, which allowed me to source myself from energy that is actually empowering, increases connection and expands my ability to be loving and accepting to myself and those around me.
It speaks to some real self-absorption, and, yes, my ex is self-absorbed. But that’s the other side of the coin of his purpose-driven life, no? This again is egocentric type of thinking/believing which is a child’s mentality, not an adult mentality. Children are all about themselves, as they should be. If we have healthy role modeling, we grow out of the “self-absorbed” phase and start to develop a more “other” mentality. He is stuck in child mentality, takes everything personally, blames everyone else for how he feels and he actually feels okay about it. He would rather be in relationship with his judgment/victim/blaming than to be in connection with the people around him because he believes it is what he needs to stay motivated. I get that it’s motivating him for sure, but it’s also a copout. It’s a destructive energy he is choosing to source himself with, when he could choose something different.
Also, because my LL is physical touch, could it simply be that being needed doesn’t do it for me? So if you feel that being needed is not something you are after, then what does resonate for you? If you are choosing to be with a man who WANTS to be a victim, judgmental, insecure, emotionally fragile etc. which sets you up as the caretaker and source for his self-esteem, then what is it IN YOU that is choosing this experience?
I want to be clear…I know this is not ALL that he is. You are not painting a bad picture of him at all. I know he has some very beautiful and wonderful parts of him too. I am focusing solely on his limiting side for 1 reason: You are only as strong as your weakest link, right? Numerous studies have shown that who a couple is, in their worst, is what will determine their level of success, connection and sustainability. If you want a love that is limitless, growing, expansive, connective and nourishing, you are not going to find it with this guy as long as he chooses not to shift his “sour grapes and as long as you choose to keep sourcing his self-esteem and call it “being a good partner.” Yes, every once in a while we need our partners to give us a self esteem boost, but this is not an every once in a while occurrence. This is a strong pattern that exists between you guys. And that’s okay! This is where YOU are the creator of your love life. If he offers you enough of what you need and that’s good enough for you…then have at it! You can absolutely accept his sour grapes and stay in relationship with him and not need anything more from him than what you are getting.
One thing I will say about myself is that I take almost nothing personally (so that could be why I don’t really feel that I’m choosing my insecure ex to feel needed, etc.). Every single time you get triggered, you are taking his actions personally. Again, your triggers are the symptoms of beliefs (usually from the subconscious) about yourself and your life. So if your guy does something and you have a big response and need to pull away, it’s because of you taking it personally. Every single trigger you have, is your own…100% of the time, no exceptions. That’s why I’m directing you to work on your own insecurities/triggers, because he sure isn’t going to change…but you can!
therapy only gives one the tools to better manage one’s issues, not to cure them. I’m going to share my experience with the therapists I have aligned with and who have helped me advance to who I am today. They ABSOLUTELY, without a doubt, kicked my ass. Yes, they gave me tools, but they also held me accountable to my stories and beliefs and they absolutely helped me heal. His therapist may not be effective and is not really challenging your guy’s way of living, or your guy truly may be resistant to change and not willing to do the work, so the therapist might be trying more indirect ways to help him shift into a higher, more conscious/connective way of living. Who knows! If the efforts your guy is making to “grow” is enough for you to feel okay about continuing forward and accepting his approach to life, that’s enough for you and it sounds like that is where you are at with all of it. You sound very clear about continuing to choose him as your love partner.
Oh, and finally, I’m hypergamous. Can you help me understand how this affects your decision with him? I’m not sure how this plays into your situation. You are looking for men that have an up-leveled status, yes? Am I understanding this correctly?
Heidi
