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Hi Mary,
I thought I’d check in and see how you are doing. Any new updates or information? I’d love to keep the conversation going and see if we can help you through some of these difficult layers. We’d love an update!
Heidi
Hi Wendy,
How are you doing?? How are you feeling? How are you processing this ending so far. You’ve had a few days to live with it. I’m curious where you might feel free and where you might feel a bit stuck.
Heidi
Hi Lelah,
We never heard back from you, so I thought I’d check in and see what’s happening. Any updates on your situation? Any thoughts or feelings about what I said?
I’d like to keep this conversation going and see if we can help you through some of this.
Heidi
Hey there! I just wanted to check in and see how you felt about what I said. I know it was not what you wanted to hear. I understand that keeping your family together is one of the most important things to you. I just wanted to keep the conversation going and see if we can unpack some of this to help you find a direction of peace and happiness, whether you are together or not.
We hope to hear back from you!
Heidi
Hi Victoria,
I am still wondering if you ever did any work with a therapist/coach/healer about being in a relationship with an abusive man. What have done for yourself to help you heal and clear the traumas from that?
I know he has some red flags but so do I. I am willing to look past those and make this work You are willing to look past the red flags?? Really?? I want to slow you down here. Red flags mean STOP. Red flags mean this person is NOT available for the kind of relationship you are looking for. How he is functioning and handling this whole thing, is telling you he is NOT a partner, he is NOT someone who is willing to face his fears, he is NOT someone you can count on to get through hard times with. Do you really want to look past all of that? You DO NOT want to repeat your last relationship! I know this guy is not abusive however, he is still not a partner who can be relied on. I know you have extremely strong feelings for him and why wouldn’t you. He probably treated you the best you have ever been treated in your life! Unfortunately, it’s not our best sides that make a relationship work, it’s actually our worst sides. What I mean by that is whoever we are in our worst, is what will make or break a relationship. How we are treated when our partner is hurt, angry, upset, stressed etc. is THE MOST IMPORTANT aspect to pay attention to. If they are disrespectful, hurtful, ghosting, not willing to take ownership…then that is a person is NOT able to function or support a healthy relationship. This guy is disrespectful with how he just bailed, he is ghosting you, he is hurting you and he is not willing to talk about any of it. He wants to just go into his cave and not behave like an adult and work through whatever he is feeling WITH you. So even if you were able to get him back somehow, this side of him WILL show up again. He disconnection from you has nothing to do with you and everything to do with the baggage he is carrying inside. I get we all have baggage, but it’s what we do with that baggage that matters. Just something to think about.
I want to stick to the no contact rule but I don’t even know if he is fazed by it or not. Of course he is aware of your absence and I’m sure he misses you, but whatever is happening for him, it’s MUCH BIGGER than any feelings he has for you. I want to encourage you to take these 30 days and really work with the feelings you are having around this. That’s a lot of what the 30 days is about…detaching, re-evaluating, getting to know how you feel and not escaping those feelings by trying to get the other person back, just so you can feel better. Is this something you are willing to do?
Heidi
Hi Lucinda,
Have you talked to him about being friends? Honestly, I wouldn’t count on it. His schedule sounds insane and it also sounds like he just doesn’t want to add anything onto what he is already dealing with. You guys can’t REALLY be friends until you stop having feelings for him and vice versa. Going immediately into friendship means what for you, exactly? Hanging out once a month? Connecting every once in a while through texts? Talking on the phone sometimes? It’s a tricky line as long as you still have any attachments/attraction for him.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Fiona,
I’m so so sorry for what you are going through. It is incredibly difficult to feel that powerlessness to change things the way you want and need. It’s so hard to watch your partner choose not to work on things. It’s painful and extremely difficult.
I’m wondering, what are you afraid is going to happen if your kids grow up in a “broken” family? It sounds like even if he were to come back, things would be broken anyways, as he is not willing to be a partner with you. So together or not, it’s broken, right? Kids feel that! I remember being sooooo relieved when my parents finally separated. They were so unhappy together and once they went their separate ways, BOTH my parents were more peaceful and available for me. I liked them better. That was my experience of course and I”m guessing that was not your experience, correct?
He won’t do counselling or coaching, just wants to separate and move forward and tells me he doesn’t feel heard because I am not giving in to what he wants. This is a tough one Fiona. Do you REALLY want to be the only one in the relationship doing any work to repair things? The truth is, he would rather be in a relationship with his fear, his resentment, his anger, his hurt than to be connected. His choices have NOTHING to do with you. His choice to quit is about HIM. I’m curious…have you known him to be a forgiving person, right from the beginning? My guess is, he has quite the history of holding onto things and making checklists in his mind. I could be wrong. How he is behaving and what he is choosing is so sad. He is going to be one miserable person with how he is designing his life.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Wow! I can’t believe you actually went back and read some of your responses and looked at how Kanya triggered you in different ways. What a gift to discover that you are no longer triggered! Wow! It’s like reading a diary, right? You have changed sooooo much and in HUGE ways since you first signed on, it’s really incredible. We normally do not get to have that privilege of someone staying with us long enough to see those shifts. I understand your feeling about her guidance to not give up alimony because you are trusting in God. I get what she is saying and I get your response to it. I gotta say…it’s really tough on this forum. Sooooo many times how I intended to come across, is not at all what happens. You have been someone to bring that to my attention. I LOVE people who are strong enough to push back against my guidance so I can self correct or explain things differently so it’s better received. I’ve always appreciated your strength!
Occasionally, i look at the other threads to see what kind of issues other women are having, and i read your responses, and i think to myself – i DO NOT have the patience for that! lol 🙂 This made me laugh!!! Yes! I have had to develop patience. This forum has been really good for me to learn how to take baby steps with people. I’m personally a leaper. I will jump in, head first and go for it. I want to know / hear the truth, no matter how it will make me feel. When I first started here, I had to learn to tone it down and meet people where they were at vs. taking them all the way to the depths of truth they weren’t ready to hear. It’s still hard sometimes though, I admit. Whenever I struggle and my judgment comes up, I stop and ask God to show me the truth about this person, with HIS eyes and not my own. That usually helps 🙂 It’s funny that you think I was nicer. I wouldn’t say that at all! I have been pretty tough with you many times and sometimes wondered if I pushed too far. Kanya is always much nicer than I am in most of her posts! LOL.
I am not able to receive FROM everyone the same way. I totally get what you are saying and 100% agree. I get the cultural aspects as well. You gave some good examples!
Of course, i questioned myself about my impulsive generosity — was i giving away the money God had given me for that application?! lol 😀 But i didn’t want to use such a precious gift for something as ordinary as an application! LOL. I get it! I invite you to look at something. What if money wasn’t called money and it was called abundance. What if you just created a cycle of abundance and money was just one of the physical elements of abundance? If you create a cycle of abundance, it can look sooooo many ways. For example, part of my personal way to GIVE to the world is by picking up extra dog poop at the park, putting the grocery carts back in the appropriate spot instead of leaving them in the parking spot and making sure I offer compliments to someone on a daily basis. This ADDS to the world, right? And then when I need help, I also am taken care of in the form of abundance. Sometimes that is money, sometimes it’s compliments, sometimes it’s new clients etc. JB was inspired to help you with something you needed help with. I love that you felt the beauty and energy behind his gift! I also am noticing a flavor of something negative about money in particular. You say you didn’t want to use such a precious gift for something as ordinary as an application, but then I say…the application was for YOU. That gift was for YOU and there is nothing ordinary about YOU. So you give it GOD because somehow you believe something or someone was more deserving of the “preciousness” than you were. I’m not questioning your choice. I am questioning the energy behind your choice. Make sense?
because, all the good things that i see in myself, i WORKED for it! I am happy because I worked on myself! And some of the things i had to overcome were wounds that they left in me from negligence! I also protected my kids from the things that my parents failed to protect me from. So, what exactly DID i receive from my parents? And they were above average as far as Indian parents go. So, in the eyes of everyone else, they set me up for a success. But they didn’t. The gift they gave you was struggle. They showed you who you didn’t want to be as a person and as a parent. They caused a lot of damage, but had they not done that, you wouldn’t know how to heal or forgive or have to develop resilience. I know they didn’t consciously make these choices of course. They did the best they knew how and it wasn’t enough. Their love is limited AND it inspired you to be more than them, right?
Heidi
I’m so glad you get to go home for Christmas for that long! Any special plans? What about Thanksgiving?
Yes, eyes and smiles can make or break someone’s attractiveness right? I’m a sucker for those same things. Just out of curiosity, are you able to get a sense of a person by looking at their eyes in a picture? It’s a fun game I started out doing about 10 years ago and now, it’s actually a skill I have. I can look at a picture and know A LOT about someone by looking at their eyes. Not necessarily details, but general tendencies, both positive and negative. It’s definitely a skill that comes in handy when it comes to online dating. I started by just asking my friends to show me pictures of people they knew, but I didn’t. I would empty my mind and look at the picture and allow my intuition to take over. A sense about a person would come forward. Now that I’ve practiced for so long, I get a lot more information about a person. It’s fascinating!
Hopefully you were able to help your SOS friend! He/she is lucky to have you!
Heidi
Hi Victoria,
Welcome! Thank you for coming here and sharing your story. No judgment at all. We are here to help and guide you in the best ways possible. I can understand why you feel so shocked and why this is so hard for you. You went from an abusive marriage to being treated like a queen. It’s a complete turnaround, so of course you would be attracted and drawn to him, despite him being married. It’s a very complicated situation you are involved in and there are a lot of layers to work through, so stay with us as we take you through the journey of unwrapping everything you are dealing with.
Let’s just start with the obvious. He wasn’t ready to move on. Despite him having a passionless/loveless marriage, you have to look at the fact that it’s what he was choosing. SOMETHING was keeping him with her, despite him feeling unfulfilled. Then you come along and wake him up, so to speak. You made him feel things he hadn’t felt in a long time. You brought him back to life. It’s great, but it also was dangerous to step into a relationship with him, because he hadn’t completed his previous relationship. I’m not surprised by the way he is acting. It is a year later and now all his “unfinished” business, both logistical and emotional is coming to the surface. He never truly dealt with the loss of his marriage and wife, he never truly dealt with what it means to get a divorce, he never truly dealt with his reasons for staying in a loveless marriage. It took his wife finding out before a divorce happened. What stopped him from just initiating it himself??? Have you ever thought about that? To me, that tells me he is not very good at dealing with his deeper emotions and not really willing to face what lives inside of him. He would rather use EXTERNAL sources of pleasure (money, model wife, you) to help him feel better instead of dealing with the real issues he carries inside. Eventually, just like what is happening right now, he will have to face the consequences of his choice to ignore what he feels like on the inside…and you are collateral damage.
It’s not to say that what he felt for you wasn’t real or powerful. It absolutely was! It just doesn’t change that he has some serious baggage and he is not dealing with it and you are seeing the results of that. Have you ever asked what happened in their marriage and why it broke? I know it was loveless, but what happened for it even get that way?
You also came out of an abusive marriage. Did you or are you in therapy or working with someone about the traumas you incurred? Have you worked with yourself deeply as to the reasons you were in this kind of marriage?
First and foremost, it’s important to get VERY CLEAR about the kind of man he is and how he functions. He has been your “prince” and rescued you from a horrible marriage (not literally, but emotionally speaking) and so there is an element of “blindness” happening here. There are red flags, so it’s important to start to look at those and really begin to see whether this guy is healthy for you or not. I know he made you feel amazing and treated you incredibly well AND he also ripped all of that away in seconds, without talking with you about how he is feeling, without warning, without involving you in the decision making. His decision was not a TEAM/PARTER kind of decision. He just made the decision and all of a sudden your life has been upended. RED FLAG HERE!!! He is letting his emotions control him and not being an adult or partner in the process. Even if you were to get back together, he could absolutely do this again. Is this what you want to step back into?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Wow! Your trip to Point Pelee sounds fantastic. I’m not a super fan of the wind, but it sounds like it created quite the energy in the water. I’m so glad you got to get out and see something like that!
Ha! Long hair is back in! I remember it being “the thing” when I was in high school, and now I’m seeing it everywhere! At least in Boulder. I’m not sure how it is out in the rest of the world, but I’d say Thor brought it back with his extreme hotness as an Avenger. LOL. I actually noticed how more and more guys were growing their hair out after that first movie. Who knows, but a guy who can rock the long hair has something extra sexy about them, right? As long as it looks good and it’s not a birds nest (which you see a lot of in Boulder). How fun that Austin showed up in your dream…LOL. Enjoy that!!!
So what are you going to do for your boring weekends?
Heidi
LOL…yes, your circles do make sense! I totally get all of it..at least I think I do 🙂
And, since i AM receiving something, which i cannot give back — it IS a debt. Whether i use it or squander it, it IS still a debt. If it’s NOT a debt, it means there is no significance or value to the person who helped me. First, I’m going to invite you to look at this differently. If you are receiving something, can you just not receive it? Why does there have to be an exchange? Also, there is a much bigger picture in these exchanges. For example, I had to have a few abdominal surgeries in the past 6 months. During my recovery, I had sooooooo much help. People sent me gift cards for food, they came and walked my dog, they sent me money since I was out of work for a while, they brought me food etc. I was amazed at how well I was taken care of. It was soooo beautiful! And you know what? I don’t owe them anything. They wanted to give because it felt good to them. The bigger picture here is that I am someone who gives A LOT in this world. So in my mind, I was just receiving back what I have given so freely (without needing something in return). For example, my neighbor is in a lot of pain in his back right now. I am giving him a free session with me this weekend. This does not mean he is indebted to me now. I give because I want to help and I know at some point, I will receive help from someone else down the road. Do you see the bigger picture here? I’m also curious…what would you feel like if you just received something, without creating a debt? What does it feel like to just purely receive with any exchange?
So when i see myself as being indebted to a person for something, it isn’t Power that i am putting in their hands, it is Value. THEY matter to me! They have brought something into my life that helped me. The fact that it was specifically them and not someone else, makes THEM significant. Let’s talk about this a bit more. It’s one thing to value someone and appreciate them for their help, but it’s another level becoming indebted to them. Once you feel you “owe” them, you are giving them power in your life. I would suggest to really look at the energy behind this “debt” you create in your mind. JB gave you money, but that doesn’t mean you owe him. Somewhere down the line, you will pay it forward and affect someone else. Did you ever see that movie??? OMG I balled my eyes out…it was such a good movie.
I LOVE LOVE LOVE what you are learning from James French. Animals are such great teachers, right??? I do a lot of dog sitting and I’m very conscious about creating a safe space and communicating with them on their level. I am well loved in return!
That’s so interesting that the woman wanted to spell your name HER way. Whaaaattt??? Goodness, I can’t even imagine being in a relationship with that woman. Yuk! I’m glad you said something! You are spot on! I don’t know if you have ever looked up your name numerologically. Names are SUPER significant and have a TON of meaning and the spelling DOES matter!
Okay…I gotta say that I had no idea I had that kind of impact on your life! Wow! I’m seriously blown away and received your words all the way into my heart. You seriously have put a huge smile on my face. Kanya was so much nicer than I am, so a lot of people end up really responding to her, understandably, so I’m soooo freakin happy to hear I have you in my corner!!! LOL I truly am honored because you are not someone who takes things lightly and you challenge and push and explore. To have your respect and attention means something to me! Thank you for sharing this with me!
Lastly, I LOVE the peace you get to feel in the church. It’s sooooo darn important and I love that you have a place to go to where you can easily activate it and connect with peace and God in the quietness. It’s healing and like you said, creates space for higher level connections.
Heidi
Hey there!
Wow! I am soooo so sorry for what you are having to go through. It sounds like there really are a lot of layers to work through. I just have a few questions.
You said you left…did you move out? How long have you been married? How old are your kids? Have you ever had honest conversations with him where you guys talk about what your challenges are in the marriage?
I know you don’t want him to cheat on you, but he already has with his ex. He is in a relationship with her. I’m wondering where your boundaries are. Is he allowed to just do whatever he wants and you plan on doing all the work to figure out how to stay together? As long as you don’t have boundaries, he will never respect you…because you are not respecting yourself. YOU teach him how to treat you. Since you are just letting him do whatever he wants, despite how it makes you feel, you are not honoring your feelings, your needs, your boundaries. YOU don’t exist in this “relationship.” So as long as you stay in that mode, you will never catch his attention.
What are some of your thoughts about why he changed after the kids? How did he change? What were you guys fighting about so much?
Bottom line is, you guys have A LOT happening between you. You cannot try an save your marriage with the same energy that broke it in the first place. If he is not willing to change or work on the marriage, then there is not much you can do. It takes 2 people. What you CAN do, is change yourself. Look at the areas where you weren’t a good partner. Find better ways to communicate with him. Start to set some boundaries. Start to connect to YOUR strength and power instead of giving it all to him.
Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Wendy,
Wow! It’s really over. I’m happy to hear that you guys are remaining friends and that everything feels good. It makes separating that much easier. You both have a bit of a roller coaster ride to go through as you enter into all the phases that a breakup will bring. We are here for you, should you need that support!
Dr. Gottman posited that only 35% of men have emotional intelligence, and I would imagine that a large percentage of those men had to walk through fire to develop it. What about the other 65%? Should we just leave them to their MGTOW or Incel movements because women can’t feel emotionally safe with them? 65% is a large number of men behaving … like men. Absolutely leave them! You are NOT their teacher nor their savior. Other women who have lower standards can have that 65% of men. I personally will not settle and expect to find one of those men in the 35%.
So is the problem with men or with women?) The problem is with BOTH. Men obviously need to take responsibility for who they are and women need to take responsibility for supporting and accepting that kind of behavior and joining in the dysfunction. Yes, I would agree that those men (and women) who are more developed have earned emotional intelligence by walking through fire. I personally could never be with a man who hasn’t walked through fire and who hasn’t developed the skillset/mindset/growth from it.
Is there a man who is a non-religious public figure that you think comes close to being an emotionally intelligent man? I’m trying to figure out how this unicorn presents. I don’t know your type, but I listen to podcasts with Aubrey Marcus – he is my favorite. He embodies a VERY strong divine masculine but also knows how to express divine feminine energy. He was super big in the fitness industry but has shifted into the self-help/transformation realm. He has very intelligent conversations. I also listen to Paul Chek, Rich Roll and the HEAL podcast. They all interview a TON of emotionally intelligent men and in my mind, hearing soooooo many interviews with healers, transformers and change-makers that are men, it makes me feel like they are EVERYWHERE!!! Peter Crone is a very powerful coach (he was interviewed on the HEAL podcast). No, I don’t know any in my small little corner of the world, but who cares. I know they exist and it seems like there are PLENTY! That’s what I choose to believe.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Caroline!
We LOVE your wallowing. No need to apologize. You are going through something incredibly difficult right now and we are here to support you through this. You are not alone and your wallowing is to be expected. You are having to let go of a dream you created around him about your future together and you are having to release a connection that has been so special and important to you. There is nothing easy about that. Be kind to yourself. It’s a freakin’ rollercoaster ride in the beginning after a breakup.
First thing I want to invite you to do…pay attention to what you are saying to yourself and what you are saying about what has happened. For example, you say: wishing that he didn’t just throw me away. You are creating a story around what happened that is causing the suffering you are feeling. If you believe that he “is throwing you away” then of course you are going to suffer. If you believe instead that “He wasn’t willing to work on himself or talk about our challenges, therefore we are not a good team together” then you have a story that is more accurate and that supports you. You need to connect to the story you are telling yourself and identify the parts that are really causing harm to your self-esteem. This is why you feel so horrible. Check out this website. “The Work” is a really powerful method to really work with your emotions and stories around a situation. https://thework.com/
I also like to use a technique I call “finish the story.” When you just say “he threw me away” and then keep looping and looping around that thought and feeling, you get sucked into feeling more and more shitty. Instead, finish that statement with the truth. For example, “He threw me away AND I am loveable, worth fighting for and I’m a badass goddess that deserves a higher functioning man.” It doesn’t matter whether you believe it or not, say it anyways. You need to counteract those lies, low self-esteem statements with positive thoughts and truths. You are letting the lies wreak havoc on your system, so there is only one way to go…and that’s down. Pull yourself back up. Talk to friends who know you and ask for their help by telling you why they like you. Fill yourself with positive and encouraging voices by listening to podcasts, songs, watching movies where the heroine overcomes a HUGE obstacle (i.e. Under the Tuscan Sun). You need to fight for yourself and these are just a couple of ways to do it. Here is a Tedx Talk that will explain what happens after a breakup. https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM
I was angry that these two who are NOT A MATCH are still trying to make things work (although incredibly unhealthy) and I’m the one who was just trying to do the right thing by someone but somehow I’m not worth fighting for, I’m not worth it to him. It made me feel like shit. My self-confidence is totally in the drain right now. They ARE a match because they are both agreeing to participate and function at a certain level…they both are agreeing to be unhealthy. Your guy is not willing to fight for you, because he isn’t willing to fight for himself. He cannot offer something to you he is not even able to do for himself. This has nothing to do with you. It has everything to do with him and his relationship with fear. He would rather stay in fear and let it control his life than to face it and fight for a higher level of connection. He gets to choose that for himself. Is that what you would want to choose for yourself? You are alone because you have standards as to how you are treated. Your sister and her ex are together again because their standards are much lower. It takes a lot of self-esteem to say no to participating in unhealthy patterns and exchanges. So again, start working on shifting your story that he threw you away or isn’t willing to fight for you and instead connect to the truth that he doesn’t love himself very much, he isn’t fighting for himself and that he is throwing himself away.
Thoughts?
Heidi
