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I’m glad tacos went a bit better than you expected. Of course, you are still on your guard though.
I’m so sorry for how your anniversary turned out. You said “It’s okay” and you get where he is at. Jacinda, this is NOT okay. You are putting in all of this effort and he is not. Let’s really look at what’s happening here. You are going to grow and learn and become a better person, all the while he will be doing nothing to improve himself. You say “I love you” every morning with nothing in return. You rub his feet, you give him compliments and it’s all landing on a guy who doesn’t really value and appreciate you.
I know you are trying to save your marriage, but this is not how it’s going to happen. He doesn’t respect you and that’s an issue. He doesn’t respect you because you are not respecting yourself. You are constantly chasing after him trying to “prove” your love, your value, your kindness, etc. and he is doing nothing in return. This is not a reciprocal relationship you have with him. Men typically do not respond well to this kind of design of being chased without having to put any effort in. Again, they don’t respect women who allow themselves to be treated that way.
It’s like you are living your life FOR HIM and doing everything you can to save the marriage and get him to come back, without really caring what your marriage is like, how he treats you, and the quality of your connection and partnership. You are fighting for a guy who is NOT a partner. He is just sitting back, receiving everything you are giving him, and doing nothing in return. This is really what you want to fight for? This is the kind of connection you want to have in your life?
I know you want his attention back, but the best way to do that is to start to respect and love yourself and set some standards as to how you are treated. When you give, give, give and there is no receiving, that is NOT a loving thing to do for yourself. Love is about EXCHANGE otherwise it’s not love. What you are doing is coming from a place of fear and he can feel that.
So let’s start here. How would you like to be treated? What EXACTLY would you like from him? Tell me about why you married him and when your relationship with him was at its best.
Heidi
Oh man. I wish we could chat as well. Having to write every really limits the conversation. I wish I could just give you the most giant hug right now. I know you are hurting. My hurt is hurting for you as well.
But I have a weird feeling… like I’m flirting with a close friend, not like I’m in a relationship. Let’s talk a little more about this. First, ouch! I read that and my heart sank. It’s an awful thing to hear that you are not attractive in a sexy way to someone you have been intimate with several times.
I know this is what feels real for him, but I also wonder why. Again, how he acted and behaved just doesn’t line up with his words. I also wonder if something shifted for him while on his trip and being around his family. I’m wondering if they said something to him. I know that when I was really carrying a lot of baggage, someone could say the smallest thing to me about who I was dating, or maybe I shouldn’t be dating etc., and my feelings would instantly change…like a light switch…and I would sabotage my connection somehow. It was exactly what I was saying previously…it’s the upper limit. I’m wondering if he reached his upper limit of being happy and he started to feel really uncomfortable and needed to sabotage the connection (not that he would be aware of any of this).
I suppose it all really doesn’t really matter. Whatever the real reason, he isn’t available and it just plain hurts…there isn’t a way around that. I am so sorry Emilie.
What are you going to do to process all of this? Are you still working with a coach? Feel free to come here and vent and express everything you need to!
Heidi
Wow! This is a big deal!!! How are you feeling?? How is unpacking?? I’ve moved many times as well and man…it’s exhausting! I’m sending many many restorative vibes your way!!!
Heidi
Oh my goodness! Soooooo confusing!!! His actions and words are NOT aligned at all, which is a really big red flag. He says he doesn’t see a future with you. Did you happen to ask him why? He is attracted to you and also feels really close with you and a strong friendship…all the things needed for a relationship, yet he doesn’t see a future??? Huh? There is something going on here. So I would have wanted to ask “What is missing for you?” I’m wondering if he just won’t allow himself to see a future (subconsciously) because he is still so afraid and won’t allow himself to feel that way…which is my guess. He still has some deeper healing to do.
I’m so sorry Emily. This has to be so frustrating for you. I’m glad he finally brought this up. I think what’s important for you is for YOU to decide what you want to do. He is not available for a real relationship, at least not right now, so how do YOU want to things to go? Can you still have sex and bond, knowing it’s not going anywhere? Or is taking a step back and truly creating just a friendship, what feels best for your heart? It’s not for him to decide anymore. He told you how he felt, now it’s up to you to decide what you want to do with that.
Heidi
I know how much you want things to work out with him. Of course you do. You are the kind of person who loves very deeply and bonds very strongly. So the idea of letting him go, feels like it would shatter your world.
The thing is Jacinda, you have no control over he chooses to be, only yourself. The most powerful way to shift a situation is to work on yourself and shift yourself…then the whole situation changes. There are no guarantees as to whether your marriage will stay together or not as you grow and connect more deeply to yourself, but what there is a guarantee for, is you will feel more empowered, strong, confident and resilient within yourself to handle whatever shows up.
The goal here is not to just get him back. If he comes back, that doesn’t change the problems that are causing the disconnect in the first place. You want to shift HOW you guys communicate and connect. You want to have healthier boundaries, you want to relate to each other with more respect, and you want to remain open and authentic with each other. That is what allows a couple to continue to grow and stay connected. So shift your goal from ONLY thinking about him coming back, to finding healthier ways to relate to each other. When he is resistant, let him be. He gets to be resistant and when you push against that energy, it will only grow. When YOU disconnect and say in your mind “He is resistant and I am not going to participate in that kind of connection” you can stay empowered. It doesn’t matter “why” he is resistant sometimes and then sometimes not. That is you putting your attention and focus on HIM when it needs to be on yourself instead. When you are solid and stable and adhere to certain standards as to how you are treated, he will either align with that or not.
Another thing you can do, although I’m not sure how open he is to this, is to just ask him (when he is in a good mood) what is happening when he is resistant. Come from a place of PURE curiosity. So you can say something like “I’m actually really curious. Sometimes I really feel your resistance and sometimes I don’t. Is there something I am doing to cause your resistance? Is there anything I could do differently so you don’t feel resistance? I really would like to understand. I would love for you to teach me what works best for you.”
How did the tacos go???
Heidi
HI Jacinda,
It’s easier to keep everything in one place, so we will just keep connecting through your other thread.
Hi Miriam,
It’s nice to see a picture! I never know what anyone looks like because they don’t add pictures to their profile.
What you are dealing with is so darn tricky. There are 2 major things that are impacting your relationship with him – cancer and distance.
I know you feel really bonded to this guy. The truth is though…you barely know him. You only get to see the small snippets of his life. And since your cancer, you are seeing how invested he REALLY is…which isn’t that much. Whether it’s because he isn’t interested in being someone who has cancer and dealing with everything that comes with it, or he is afraid….it doesn’t matter. What DOES matter is that he showed you who he is under stress. He showed you that he disappears. He showed you that he is the kind of guy that would rather run from a situation vs. face his fears and be authentic and honest with you. He would rather ghost and disconnect than to tell you how he is REALLY feeling. And you sure are making it easy for him to treat you this way. He totally bails on you, doesn’t communicate, doesn’t talk about how he affecting you and all the while, you are letting him. You are instead trying to be so nice to him and getting him to respond in whatever way HE feels comfortable and you are not confronting a pretty BIG RED FLAG and holding him accountable to how he has shown up.
Here is the thing Miriam…you are getting a look at what kind of partner he would be for you when things get hard. Is this the kind of partner you want to be with? You want to be with a guy who bails and disconnects when things get hard? It doesn’t matter how amazing everything else is, it will all break if he is avoidant and ghosts.
You don’t know this guy very well and it doesn’t sound like you will get to know him more, anytime soon. He is always traveling, his home is the U.S., so who knows how long he will be in Italy so his life, just in and of itself, makes him VERY unavailable. Is this TRULY okay for you? What are you hoping to have happen here? What are you wanting from him? Have you ever communicated this to him?
Heidi
I totally understand everything you are saying and feeling. I know these kinds of feelings on such a deep level as I’ve had them many, many times and gone down the rabbit hole to work on healing. These feelings are super tricky at first and let me say…you are waaaaay ahead of the game. Most people don’t slow down enough to even ask themselves…are my feelings real? Most people just let their feelings guide them and that usually takes them on a whimsical journey only to end in heartbreak.
So let’s see if I can help bring some clarity. First, it’s important to know that whenever we are bonding and attracted to someone, we always have 2 parts of ourselves participating…the part that is clear, authentic, interested in the best part of that person, interested in the good. The 2nd part is that part of us that is bonding through trauma, wounds, past hurts. Some call it trauma bonding. Since we are always trying to master and resolve what has not been healed yet in ourselves, we find partners to resolve it with. That’s why people who were abused as children, will find partners who abuse them. Or why people who were abandoned will find people who cheat on them. The thing is, when we are connecting with someone and feel an attraction and feel inspired to be with them, there is no difference in how the attraction feels if it’s coming more from a clear place vs. a wounded place. The attraction feels EXACTLY the same. So I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you are slowing down enough to know your patterns and you are questioning….why do I really like this guy? I do that with every single guy I am attracted to. I have plenty of wounds that would attract someone who isn’t healthy for me long term. It takes a bit of time to really differentiate the REAL “why” behind your attraction. The goal is to have the majority of your feelings coming from a clear place and a small percentage coming from your woundedness. Here is where it can get even more tricky….the #1 reason why people don’t truly heal and get better, is because they are not set up to be happy. So you can actually be attracted to someone who would be incredibly good for you and everything that would support the kind of love you want, BUT your system has to be set up to receive that kind of love – and that’s where your woundedness will sabotage as well. I know I’ve done that many times. I think I explained this you before. I call it the Upper Limit. It’s the limit to which we allow ourselves to be happy and it’s directly connected to our wounds/hurts that unresolved…basically it’s our low self-esteem that decides how happy we will allow ourselves to be. When I was in high school and into my early 20s, my upper limit was sooooo tiny. I recognized a pattern I had of liking “nice guys” for 2 weeks and that’s all I could take. Right around the 2 week mark, I would stop liking them. It was like a light switch. One day I liked them and I liked the attention and then the next day EVERYTHING about them would make me contract inside and I would break up with them a few days later. The bad boys however…well they kept my attention for weeks!!! Sometimes for months! Despite me knowing my patterns and why they existed, it didn’t change how I felt. That took a lot more of the deep healing work to shift that pattern. My point being…why and how and what we are attracted to when it comes to love is VERY dynamic, layered and far from easy to decipher. The trick is, to know yourself deeply. Know your patterns, know your wounds and keep checking in with yourself. Your reaction when he didn’t reach out for 3 days is a wounded energy kind of reaction. Your fear of hurting him is also a wounded energy reaction so you are doing a GREAT thing by just recognizing these things and working on them yourself FIRST. He will be doing the same thing about you too. We all go through these things and it’s those people who try to resolve their insecurities and fears through the other person that you need to RUN from. You want someone, like yourself, that takes responsibility for themselves and doesn’t hand it over to you to fix it. Remember that when these feelings come up, your little girl energy who is feeling insecure needs YOU to choose her and love her first and foremost…not him. So it’s moments like that where you talk to her, re-assure her that she is loveable just as she is. Tell you that YOU love her and that no matter what this guy chooses, you are a team and together you will be okay.
And over time, more of your dysfunction will show up as well as his. The true test is to how you both handle it with each other.
Wow…I said a lot and I have no idea if any of it makes sense. I usually teach this concept in a class with pictures and all kinds of examples etc. I think you will get the concept though. You are a pretty emotionally intelligent person.
Heidi
Hi Emilie,
I was wondering when you were going to reach this point! I’m so glad it’s here so you can work through it! I’m glad you didn’t say anything. My rule of thumb is to get myself grounded, connected to my inner truth and feeling peaceful BEFORE I discuss things of this nature. The truth is, they are YOUR insecurities and talking to him would be more about relieving the discomfort of those insecurities – so essentially he would be doing the work for you instead of you doing the work for yourself. I know you know this though. I’m just validating your choice to not say anything.
I think it is still wise to keep some space. He needs to take the lead here. He is still working through sooooo much. The time apart, I have no doubt, brought you both some information about how you really feel. You discovered that you have stronger feelings for him and that you missed him. Who knows what he discovered – but he got to learn that you were okay without him, you didn’t pester him, you gave him space, you didn’t ask for more from him – I don’t know if he registered all of that, but at the very least, I bet he felt safe to just be who he needed to be, whether connected or not, and you didn’t get mad at him. I’m sure once you guys meet up, you both will have all kinds of things to say to each other, as you both seem very open and honest with each other. He certainly is still interested in you. When did you guys decide to meet? Are you going out or staying in for lunch?
Heidi
p.s. I LOVE LOVE LOVE your pup’s name. Fairy!!! I love it! I wish I could see a picture of her.
The answer do I think I’m selfish is yes. I’ve had family tell me that so I have a hard time taking time for myself, because of it. Just because your family told you that you were selfish, doesn’t make it true. What’s important is YOUR definition and how you feel about yourself, not what they say. You are letting your family and other people tell you what kind of person you are. They literally have just a sliver of insight about you, compared to all that you carry inside of you. Take back your power and YOU define who you are. You are giving all your power away to other people and that is why you don’t feel confident in yourself. No one would feel confident by constantly relying on others to tell them their value, tell them who they are, tell them what they are doing “right” or “wrong.” It’s time to turn those eyes towards yourself instead of looking to others.
Check out Brene Brown. She has a TON of videos and even an episode on Netflix. https://youtu.be/x_sYCThUQc8
You might like Byron Katy https://youtu.be/oZd7KbsxQVg
You might really like Michaela Bohm’s book and programs – https://www.michaelaboehm.com/When you start to truly connect to the beauty, amazingness, loving, caring, powerful woman you are, your conversations will change, your confidence will sky rocket and you will start to show up in this world as the you, you truly are vs the you, you think you should be for everyone else.
Heidi
Wow…I get it! That also sounds like a pretty magical weekend! I’d say it definitely is heading in the direction you are wanting for sure. I’m wondering if he is on the verge of wanting more. He sure is acting like it!
You can say something super simple and then let him take the reins. Your job is to just open the conversation and then let him lead. I’d probably say something like “We have been spending a lot of amazing time together. I’m at a place now though, where I am finding myself really bonding with you in a very vulnerable and deep way. It doesn’t feel casual for me anymore, so I just need to talk to you about what is happening between us. What are your thoughts?”
How does this feel for you?
Heidi
p.s. I got my hair colored and did blond on top and then a layer of copper in the middle and then a layer of a deep, auburn kind of red underneath. Sooooooo much fun!!!!
I LOVE your analogy! You seriously crack me up! You remind me of my mom, the most brilliant and amazing woman I know. She is a Life Coach and is ALWAYS creating analogies/meanings from everything. She is always making me laugh. It works though! People get it! Her analogies somehow strike a chord for people and generate movement. I know it’s worked on me a TON of times the ways your “bump” is working on you. And it’s spot on. The analogy my mom uses is a splinter. So whenever I find myself holding onto small things and not releasing the negative energy, she always says “Splinter Heidi.” You can have the smallest splinter in your finger, but you feel it ALL THE TIME. It’s always there and will continue to hurt until you get it out. The longer it stays there, it also attracts germs and can get infected. So even the smallest of things, need to be healed, cleared and dealt with. Your bump started small, like a splinter, and now it’s big enough that it’s impacting your entire life. Which, by the way, I want to STRONGLY suggest getting that looked at right away. It’s obviously infected. Being that it’s so close to your brain, it’s something you don’t want to mess with. I once waited a little too long to deal with an infected tooth and my dentist really yelled at me. He has seen way too many people do the same thing and have consequences that affected their brains. Go to your dentist!!!! You will most likely need some antibiotics, but the sooner the better.
I honestly don’t want to think of Indians and Ethiopians being the friends that I would enjoy the most! Nor women either! What an incredibly uncomfortable idea! Why am I so against it?! I think that maybe the first step is to heal in a way that allows you to see people as just people, not Ethiopians, women or Indians. Each person is different. Some may absolutely fit the profile you have given these people and many will not. Regardless, healing your wounds around these areas, doesn’t mean you become friends with them. It just means you will be friends with them if they meet your criteria for what a friend is to you – and it won’t matter if they are male, female or whatever. It’s just about attracting good people into your life, right? You know why you feel this way towards “them.” You’ve been deeply hurt by them and now you have a wall up. That wall represents your fears, your hurts, your wounds, the anger….everything your psyche deems necessary for that wall – lives there. That wall affects every area of your life. You wouldn’t know the extent of it though, because you have lived with it for sooooo long. It’s like asking a fish to know what water is.
I just realized how pathetic that excuse is! Why would I not want to give my friends and family top quality workmanship?! There is nothing pathetic about your excuse. I would say it’s a pretty normal and expected reaction. Writing is vulnerable. It is an expression of your inner world and having someone critique that…well that’s not easy! Artists of every kind, who put their work out there for others to see, have to have a healthy relationship with rejection, because it’s inevitable. So be kind to yourself. People will be judgemental, critical and mean towards you about your writing sometimes, and you are the first line of defense against that. If you aren’t kind, compassionate, understanding and gentle with yourself, you won’t last long as a writer. You will let all those ugly comments from people become another “bump.” I think having someone that you like and respect, help you become a better writer, would be a great thing for you! I have no doubt you would become an even stronger, more resilient person from the experience.
Heidi
Hi Abbey,
So I want to take you back to what Spyce said, but in a different way. Despite the bond you guys had and despite him still having feelings for you, what he is SHOWING YOU, very clearly, is that he would rather give more power to those few sentences, than to let his guard down and forgive. He is showing you how he functions in a relationship and what he is telling you is that he holds onto things for dear life and won’t choose to forgive, he won’t choose to have curiosity about the situation, he won’t choose connection. Regardless of how strongly you are connected or bonded, this type of behavior/coping mechanism is what will break you guys over and over and over again. He is not functioning well under stress – he is choosing to ghost and stonewall and that kind of choice is NOT something that is sourcing a lasting bond. A lasting bond is a bond that is able to stay strong, in ALL situations – the good AND the bad. You guys obviously had the good, but now that the darker side is being exposed, he is choosing to disconnect. So…is this really what you want? This kind of behavior doesn’t go away. He will do this kind of thing again and again and again. Is this the kind of relationship you want?
Heidi
Hi Brooke,
Wow! You are really in a tough situation. I’m soooo so sorry for what you are going through. It really is an awful feeling to watch your marriage fall apart, despite all the efforts you are making. It’s a very powerless feeling and that is one of the hardest things to face. The truth is, you ARE powerless. What he is going through has much more to do with his own perception of himself and not about you. His insecurities, his low self-esteem, his need to find value through other women – it’s all about him trying to counteract how horrible he feels on the inside. It’s not something for YOU to fix – you can’t. You could be the sexiest woman alive, want sex all the time, give him everything he wants – and he still would be unhappy. This is REALLY important for you to understand and face about him. He would rather go for quick fixes to help himself feel better, than do the REAL work of healing and clearing out all those negative beliefs he has about himself. You can lead a horse to water, but you can’t make it drink. This is where we are ALL powerless with others. It’s so incredibly difficult to accept and embrace that powerlessness. You want to save your marriage, but HE has to want to save your marriage too. He has to want to save himself. But instead, he is pointing the finger at you and blaming you for his lack of feelings. He would rather get divorced than dig deep and find out what’s REALLY going on inside of him. He is not interested in fighting for himself and his emotional health/well-being. That means you are stuck there, all by yourself, trying to fight for a marriage where your teammate…your partner…is not.
This is not about you doing or being something different in order to save your marriage. This is about HIM needing to find a way out of his internal misery and doing it through quick fixes – bandaids – that are never going to last. He is going to get a huge reality check-in time.
The very best thing you can do is to work on yourself. He needs to go “save” himself in whatever way he is willing to do and unfortunately, that does not involve you. So now is the time for you to save yourself. Your partner is bailing and you need to let him. Love him and care for him enough to trust that his process and what he is choosing is his way of trying to survive – and it’s all he is willing to do.
Would you be willing to get a therapist? Sometimes, when the woman starts to clear her internal clutter and the man starts to notice, he too starts to get inspired. Obviously, the marriage wasn’t working for him, so what about you working on those parts of yourself that contributed to this design and really discovering the depths of what you are feeling and experiencing. As you shift, he will experience you differently. What he DOES know is that he doesn’t want to continue with how things are, so the best way is for you to start to heal and shift things from that space. Does that make sense?
Do you think he would be willing to do a separation instead? I’m wondering if you guys agree to a trial separation for 6 months and see how it goes. He is moving out and there is a lot of energy for him to go wandering down this path he has in his mind, so what if you just let him do that, without fighting it, and let him REALLY learn what his life is like without you. He may discover a newfound appreciation for you. So how about suggesting to split up and talk him into just trying it for a period of time and at the end of the trial period, you guys can come back together and decide if divorce is the next best step.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Oh wow! Your weekend together sounds super amazing! You guys flowed really well together! It TOTALLY was a couple’s weekend. You are faaaaaaar beyond a FWB kind of girl for him. I’m so glad you guys had fun together!
As far as trusting yourself that you will be okay losing Tim, I get it. I would say though…you have more trust in yourself than you think. I just think your fear is bigger than your trust – and that’s pretty normal for someone in your shoes. So one thing that helps is to make your trust in yourself BIGGER than the fear of losing him. So it’s about really connecting to the truth that you will be okay if he doesn’t want to move forward with you. Yes, it will hurt. Yes, you will cry. Yes, you will feel that awful pain from rejection….AND you are resilient, you have a good support system, you have the ability to forgive and heal. It will take time, but you will figure it out. Keep connecting yourself to that truth, so you can have that conversation with him in a more peaceful, grounded, centered way.
Because….it’s time to do it. It’s getting to the point now where you guys are REALLY bonding and if he is not allowing himself to the room to feel what he clearly feels about you, then he needs to stop. It’s not fair or kind to you and it’s up to YOU to protect yourself from his walls and limitations, if that is what he chooses. If he chooses to stay distant and not move forward with you Franziska, it will have nothing to do with you and everything to do with his fear. You cannot battle or win against fear. Believe me, I’ve tried. It’s a battle that can only be won by the person in it. Everyone else on the outside just has to honor the process and not take it personally.
Your list is great! It makes much more sense and is a bit deeper. I could take you even further, but I feel like it’s maybe not the most important thing right now. I feel like focusing on you having this conversation is probably the most important thing right now. I’m happy to take you to the next level if you want. Just let me know.
Heidi
