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Hi Allegra,
I’m wondering if you would be willing to date with a different mindset. You are wanting to find someone you can share your life with, but you have never been in a relationship before. That means, there are a lot of skills you have never developed, there are a lot of feelings inside of you that you are not aware of (because they have never been triggered), and there is whole different side to yourself that you have never met before.
The pursuit of love is a unique path. Dating, romance, love….all these things are the ONLY keys to unlocking certain parts of yourself. Dating is where you start. I have been on hundreds of dates over the years and dated for different kinds of reasons. Dating is a GREAT way to practice certain skills like communication. It’s a great way to discover where you are judgmental towards yourself and others. It’s a great way to see what your triggers are – just like how you got so anxious you couldn’t sleep with Kyle.
Let’s take Kyle for example. You barely know the guy yet you completely lost yourself in the prospect of just meeting up with him. So I would venture to guess that your “indifference” is more of a coping mechanism vs. being truly indifferent. Feeling indifferent, for me, is also one of my coping mechanisms. It gets tricky though because at first, I can’t tell if I am truly indifferent of if my system is shutting off so I don’t have feel whatever is buried. There are certain things I do for myself to test which one it is. You barely know yourself when it comes to dating and relationships – so as you open the door, you are going to discover that maybe you aren’t as indifferent as you thought. Just stay open and receive everything that comes up for you. This is whole side of yourself that you need to get to know.
Would you be open to dating just to practice? I’ve been on a gazillion dates where I was never attracted to the guy, but I was practicing specific things. I was developing my relationship skills. I was developing my self-esteem. I was developing my perspectives. Dating doesn’t have to be about romance all the time. Being that you are brand new to this, it might be good to just get out and get to know this brand new side of you. Forget about the physical. That’s something you do not need to talk about on a first, second, or even 3rd date – if it gets that far. Go discover what you like and don’t like with each guy. Go discover what you like and don’t like about yourself as you interact with different cultures and personalities.
Also, I know you have not had sex yet, but have you connected with your body sexually? Are you familiar with yourself sexually at all?
Thoughts?
Heidi
Yep! Totally makes sense. Tim is unusual. Most people, when they are dating, will date more than 1 person at a time. I understand it’s just not who he is. So he is dating you, but exclusively. So if that’s true, then what do you need to have a conversation with him for? You are getting everything you want and he is only dating you. It’s obvious it has shifted from friends with benefits into something much deeper. He is treating you and acting like he is falling for you. So I wonder what the next steps are in HIS mind. I think for you, you just want to know he is taking you seriously and you are not just some fling anymore. But I wonder what the next steps are for him. Maybe to officially ask you to be his girlfriend? Did you guys ever talk about this?
Heidi
https://youtu.be/TfOE5ykj7EQ Brene Brown truly says this so beautifully. Maybe this will help you understand on a deeper level of the path I am guiding you towards.
https://youtu.be/TfOE5ykj7EQ Just thought this might be helpful
https://youtu.be/TfOE5ykj7EQ Just thought this might be helpful
I still don’t want to pressure him and don’t need him to say yes to a relationship yet. But I at least would like him to agree that we’re officially or exclusively dating. This is contradictory. Dating exclusively IS a relationship. It’s a committed relationship. So it’s important for you to be VERY CLEAR about what you want before talking to him.
It sounds like he might be just about there. How about you hold off for a little longer. It would be REALLY great if HE was the one to take that step with you. From what it sounds like, he isn’t dating anyone else and you guys are spending a ton of time together, so you have what you want already. You guys JUST entered into this phase maybe a month or so ago. So maybe let him live here a little bit with you and give him a little more time. Maybe give him 2 or 3 more dates? I feel like he may actually take that step and it feels important for him to do that. But it’s also important to honor how you are feeling. So this is really up to you. I would NOT go into any kind of explanation of how the dates are feeling to you. Again, I think the strategy here, if you are the one to bring this up, is to just start the conversation and let him take it from there. That way, it can still feel like HIS idea. So again, all you need is 1 or 2 sentences to get it started and then follow him from there. So be super simple – “Tim, you told me to let you know when I couldn’t be just friends with you anymore. I’m at that point now. I’m really bonding deeply with you now and I need to let you know that.” And just leave it at that. It’s a very low-pressure statement and allows him to hear how YOU are feeling vs. what you want from him – which is where the pressure comes in.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Does this make sense?
Hi Denise,
Welcome! We are really glad you are here with your questions. Let me see if I understand correctly. You guys were together around 6 years, of which the first 3 months were great and then it all changed. You are currently broken up and wanting to get back together. Yes?
In all of your “research” did you happen to ever look deeply into narcissism and co-dependency? Because that’s exactly what it sounds like from how you are describing your relationship. Narcissism is meeting the needs of yourself, at the expense of the other. Co-dependency is meeting the needs of the other, at the expense of yourself. He sounds very narcissistic and you are definitely playing the co-dependent role.
The thing is Denise, you want to call this love, but this is called trama love. It’s the kind of love that keeps you bonded through trauma. It’s the kind of love that draws a person into a relationship through their own wounds. So it’s a very dysfunctional, harmful kind of connection that is called “love” but it’s not really love. It’s just a wounded part of ourselves, chasing after some kind of resolution from our past.Real love is when you are able to love someone and it’s actually loving to yourself to love them. I always ask people, “Is it a loving, kind, caring thing to YOURSELF to love this person?” If the answer is yes, you are on a good path.
You are wanting to step back into an abusive relationship where you felt small, ugly, and unimportant. You had health challenges, you are blamed for ALL of his misery, and the only way for him to be happy is for YOU to change. I wish I could tell you otherwise, but there is NO POSSIBILITY for you to be happy and feel fulfilled in this kind of design. I don’t care how much you change, it’s not going to change that he is a narcissist and an abuser. That lives within HIM and you cannot change him. He gets to be that way and he is not going to change. If you want to step back into a relationship with this guy, you are going to end up hating yourself again, having health issues again, and being entirely miserable. There is NOTHING healthy about this relationship for you.
There is a question I always ask someone wanting to step back into an unhealthy relationship. What is it that he is giving you that you are not willing to give yourself? My guess is, you were abused in some sort of way which is why you stuck with this guy in the first place and want to get back with him. These wounds of yours need healing. If you get back with him, you will just end up continually abusing yourself and continuing the cycle that your parents, or someone, started in the first place. Break the cycle. Do not treat yourself the way you were treated as a child. Fight for more in your life! Can you get with a therapist? Is this something you are willing to do?
Heidi
You refuse to be happy, that’s your choice, you want to focus on the negative in your life and keep on complaining that’s your choice, and so on…I can listen but I am choosing that it will not impact me anymore. I want you to stand on top of a mountain and scream this! Every single person needs to get this!!!!! Yes! Yes! Yes! It made me excited when you said this 🙂
The man who actually captures your heart fully and completely and knows how to take care of it…he will be a very lucky man!!!
You have done a lot of work! I just now remembered when you first joined. You are such a different person these days. So much more grounded in the truth and in yourself. Well done!Heidi
But I’m wondering if it has something to do with males generally wanting a challenge and its a challenge to see if they can make this person happy Yes, there is a flavor of this for sure. But let’s go one step deeper as well. Just look at the basic idea that we all attract and will stay with someone who treats us the way we believe we should be treated and what we feel comfortable with. So a man who is attracted to the woman wearing the pants, is a man is mostly co-dependent and who probably grew up with a very domineering critical household. So Will’s girlfriend is probably similar to how his mother treated him. When you grow up in a really intense household, your entire body adapts to that level of adrenaline. Your nervous system gets used to being elevated. So when we get to adulthood, we will very naturally and subconsciously create a life that keeps us elevated, because that is what feels normal and comfortable to us. We will seek out ways to continue the adrenaline dumping. Anything easier than that “normal” will actually take the body into a feeling of depression. Of course people are not aware they are doing this. This is just the physical response we are having – then you add the layers of emotional and spiritual on top and you have a hot mess just creating another hot mess with someone else – over and over and over again.
That is great that while you were observing, you were learning how to understand them. What do you think it means about Ed that he tends to slam people with a wink or a smile?
Lazy days happen. I know I wouldn’t have gotten out with 35mph winds – even if it were sunny!
Heidi
Hi Angela,
Welcome! Thank you for asking your question.
Yes! We ALL carry baggage from our past that affects our current reactions, feelings, thoughts, and behaviors in the current relationship. It’s just human and normal. However, those moments where our past gets triggered, are moments we have an opportunity for healing. They are moments where our subconscious is exposing a belief or feeling that lives there and we have a window of time to work with it and heal before it goes back into the abyss and we can’t grab onto it anymore…until it gets triggered again.
Now with that being said, it doesn’t mean that what you are sensing doesn’t have truth in it as well. He may be distancing himself as well. How long have you been dating? How long ago did your last relationship end? What is happening that is making you feel like he is a little distant?
Heidi
Well done being open to my suggestions and guidance. You are quite strong! Do you know this about yourself? To be able to look at your limiting patterns and beliefs and want to get to know them more and shift them…well that is a path less traveled. It takes an internal strength to do that.
This makes A LOT of sense about your parents and how you related with them. I can totally understand why you would feel uncomfortable expressing your needs and feelings when you grew up with a father who yelled a lot.
When I was young I think it was hard to communicate my feelings because my dad is the way he is. He is always in the right, so I guess my feelings were not valid, and there were no point of communicating them. I’m wondering if your dad is a narcissist…or at least has really strong tendencies. Narcissists typically activate co-dependence in their children. Here is a simple definition – narcissism is meeting your needs at the expense of another. Co-dependence is meeting the needs of others, at the expense of yourself. The way a child learns to survive a narcissistic parent is to become 100% submissive. They do everything and anything to please their parent and they start to become a shadow of themselves. They disappear in a sense. As they get older, they truly have no clue who they are because they never had the safe space to think and feel and develop themselves. They typically grow up to be incredibly sensitive and accommodating. The work you need to do now, is about feeling safe within yourself. I remember being in college and working with a therapist on developing my “no” muscle. I was so uncomfortable saying “no” because I hate the feeling of disappointing someone. Having peace was more important to me than how I felt. So she gave me an assignment. She assigned me the homework to say “no” to ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING that I had the slightest inkling that I didn’t want to do. She took me to the extreme. So anything I felt I didn’t want to do, even if it was the smallest no, I had to say no. If my answer was not a full 100% yes with all my spirit, the answer was a no. So I had to tell everyone around me, my friends and boyfriend, what I was doing so they new what was going on. Then I began my homework. Holy smokes it was hard! But then I started getting more comfortable with my “no.” It took me a few months, but eventually, I wasn’t scared of it anymore. That’s when I came more into balance and my homework assignment was over. I finally was comfortable with disappointing people, I was comfortable letting people down, I was comfortable with upsetting people, I was comfortable with all the reactions people had because I wasn’t giving them what they wanted. That’s the place you need to get to. I’m not saying to do what my therapist told me to do. It’s more about the concept of going from one extreme to the other extreme in order to find the middle. This is about you feeling comfortable with your feelings, first and foremost…without judgment. I guarantee you that if you spent some time with your feelings of being resentful and not having enough – you would discover a part of you that is deeply wounded and hurting. But instead, you are just judging those feelings which then perpetuates guilt – and you just keep going round and round and round – without anything changing. So break the pattern. Get a journal and write about it. Get curious about that part of you that feels resentful. Talk to that part of you that is very real and has very real feelings that matter. When you judge and ignore those feelings, you are basically treating yourself exactly how your parents treat you. So now is the time to start to be the kind of parent to yourself that you needed growing up. Pay attention, validate, understand and have compassion for EVERYTHING you feel. Get to know yourself and give yourself permission to feel all of it and be the loving mom, the caring mom, the compassionate mom, the curious mom, the kind of mom that deeply connects with her child and is interested in creating a safe space for her to feel whatever she needs to feel. When you can do this for yourself, you will feel an internal support, you will feel an internal sense of solidness and confidence. This then allows you to express your needs/feelings in a more authentic way.
I wouldn’t go as far as doing this with your parents…at least not yet. What is also important to understand is that your feelings are valuable and sacred. Your vulnerability is a gift to whoever you share it with. If you are sharing your vulnerability with people who treat it as trash, as irritating, as negative or whatever…then you are just setting yourself to be rejected all over again. So it’s important that you protect yourself as well from those kinds of experiences. Your parents are who they are and they may never appreciate nor respect your ability to be vulnerable. If this is true, then sharing how you feel is not safe for you. I would let your therapist guide you through something like that. But for right now, your job is to connect to yourself and treat yourself the way you have always needed to be treated…with respect, with compassion, with honor, with care, with gentleness, with a listening ear and a curious mind.
Is it possible to keep it stable like it is now, or is it like they say that all relationships will go through different ups and downs? Yep! It’s very normal to come close and push apart in long term relationships. So it’s important to make sure you are solid in yourself for those times where connection is more of a struggle.
Heidi
No, don’t have a clue at all why grumpy women who treat men mean get dates and I don’t. This is part of you developing your skills in how to read people and their subconscious patterns/beliefs about love. The better you get at this, the easier it will be to understand the kind of person you are on a date with. Let’s just look more at the general picture. If you look at the general idea that “grumpy women who treat men mean get dates” what does that tell you about each person? It’s also important to recognize that this is a belief you have and this belief contributes to your own view of love (on a subconscious level). Now if you look at Barry, you have more information about their dynamic. What do you think is happening there, generally speaking?
Sounds like Will stirred the pot up a bit. I like when people do that. It mixes things up and creates an opportunity for growth for everyone involved. That’s usually not what happens though. People usually just stay in their judgments. I’m curious…how did all of that make YOU feel?
Sounds like your kids are figuring out their lives really well. Do they still talk to their dad? What’s the story there?
Heidi
So I don’t get it. I don’t understand why women like her get nice men and I don’t even get a date. This is an interesting thought. Let’s explore this a little further. Why do YOU think this happens?
I’m sorry you haven’t been able to connect with Trav in a while. Do you guys have plans to connect over Thanksgiving? I know a month seems so far away before you get to go home. I have a feeling it’s going to fly by really fast!
And well done just walking up to that NOVA guy and starting a conversation. Good for you! I love how you are just putting yourself out there. It takes a lot of confidence to do something like that.
Heidi
When is the component of physical attraction interferring with being friends? As long as there is physical attraction, sex is being thought about, flirtiness is going to be present and that’s when things can begin to get messy. I have a friend who is gorgeous! I am always physically attracted to him and vice versa, BUT that’s really where it stops. There is just a natural barrier there where I truly have no interest in dating him, I just like looking at him. So that allows us to be friends. My heart is not involved. Chemistry (other than friendship) is not involved. It’s the chemicals of attraction, where you start to feel a pull towards him, where you start to fantasize about him, where you start to think about him as more than a friend – that’s when you know that you are in the danger zone with him and the energy, for you at least, is more than a friendship.
Does this thought/behaviour fall into the spectrum of co-dependency? Could I make my honesty a strength? Honesty is a strength. But let’s look at this 1 step further. Why do you want to be honest? If you truly are able to look at the deeper reason as to WHY you want to do something, you can find your intentions, even if it’s about honesty, to be shady. For example, honesty can be used as a manipulation technique. It can be used to hurt someone on purpose. It can be used to generate a specific reaction from someone. What’s more important that honesty, is to understand HOW and WHY you are using it. So to be honest about your feelings for him, you can ask yourself….if I tell him my feelings, is it going to be the highest good of me and him and his girlfriend?
Is the eventual application of their contents into my life not being myself and pleasing men as well? Again…you have to look at WHY you are doing what you are doing. People with co-dependent tendencies, typically feel pretty empty inside. They are constantly pouring themselves out to others, so they don’t really know themselves very well. So if you are reading all of this material, to fill yourself up, so you can learn how to behave to attract men, then you are just being what someone else is telling you to be vs. learning about who you are TRULY are. I’m not saying this is what you are doing. I don’t know your deepest intentions for why you are reading all of this stuff. I’m just encouraging you to really explore the “why” behind your choices.
Would answering to the natural arousal of energy in a flirty but contained way an acceptable behaviour? e.g. use those advice for enjoyment, empowerment, momentum,.. It’s only acceptable if it feels within your integrity. Again, you can always ask yourself, “Is responding to this arousal of energy in a flirty way, something that is for the highest good of me and him and everyone involved?”
I haven’t gone as far as this, in the journey on co-dependency; how to address it? Addressing co-dependency is about truly discovering wh you are, making your needs valuable and important and sometimes MORE than others’ needs, and learning to be okay when you disappoint someone, learning to be okay when someone gets upset that you said no or set a boundary. I’m thinking of the movie “Runaway Bride.” The main character is co-dependent. Maybe watch it and see those kinds of behaviors in action and in story form. Whenever we have a pattern, it’s about understanding the depths and all the layers of it. Co-dependency is not all bad either. It’s beautiful as well! So learning when and how and where to meet someone else’s needs at the expense of your own…that’s the journey. It’s not about making it all go away…it’s just about finding the balance. Is your therapist helping you with this?
Heidi
OH! I also wanted to recommend a REALLY great book. It’s written for men specifically, but I always encourage women to read it as well. It’s powerful and can help you understand what makes a relationship work and last.
Also, you should check out their app. They have an app full of all kinds of questions you can ask each other, to help improve intimacy. The goal here is for you to feel more comfortable with the little time he offers you. So what are some creative ways you can feel connected with him, even though you don’t spend as much time together as you want (I know right now is good, but it’s soon changing, so it’s time to prepare).
