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Hi Darya!
Welcome and thank you for sharing your story! It sounds like you really are in a space of wanting to learn more about your situation. I understand your desire to learn about specific concepts and how they apply to your situation.
I can give you the answers to your questions, but knowing why you two broke up, is really important. Many times, people are looking for solutions and they think it’s one thing, but it actually is another. So it’s helpful for us to have as many details as possible, so we can look at the whole picture to know how to best guide you towards what you want. So if you are up for it, sharing the details of your situation is encouraged.
Should I play dummy? Should I call him for help to open a can? Should I be more demanding? Think more about the concept instead of taking it literally. It’s less about having them DO things for you and more about setting up ways for them to feel appreciated and needed by you. So no…DO NOT play dummy. I ask for help ALL THE TIME for things I can do on my own. I ask for help because it makes my life easier AND I get to appreciate the help after. Activating the hero is just about making him feel like he is valued in your life. For example, even if you don’t ask for his help, if he ever offers, say yes and then appreciate him after. Make sure you give compliments and share why you love him just out of the blue. Would you say that he felt valued by you?
How can I compete with so many other people who call him for help? First, I’d love to invite you into a different mindset. How about instead of “competing” with others for his time and attention, think instead “what can I do to INSPIRE him to want to spend more time with me.” When you feel like you are competing, that instantly will make you think that he is making them more important than you and that’s a dangerous mindset. It’s obvious from what you are saying about it, helping people is REALLY important for him, so I’m guessing in HIS mind, it’s not about THEM being more important than you….it’s more about him fulfilling his identity and role as being a helper. Every one of our strengths and gifts ALSO are our weaknesses and cause harm. So his amazing ability and generous heart is such a gift to many AND it also sounds like he doesn’t know how to say no and set boundaries and it caused harm to your relationship. Would you say this resonates for you? And as his partner, this is something that will ALWAYS be part of him. He may or may not ever work on this part of himself – who knows. What YOU can do is try to understand if his choice to leave you and go help someone else is just a function of who he is, or were there struggles you 2 were having that would cause him to feel okay to leave during his time with you. He truly may not have had any idea of what he was doing and how it made you feel. Did you ever discuss this with him? If yes, what was his response? Also, is there another way around this for YOU so you get your needs met? Meaning, if he never changed, is there another way you can still get your needs met with him without needing him to be different? Maybe reserving Sundays for date day and he can agree to not answer any handyman requests on that day? I’m guessing, your core need here is that you were wanting to feel more connected with him, yes? no?
How can I ask for this when he is trying to avoid taking any responsibility for me? I’m a little confused about this one. Do you WANT him to be a provider for you? It sounds like you are able to take care of yourself, so why are you wanting this from him? Help me understand. This also has a similar flavor to the above question…like somehow you are wanting to mean something more to him and you are looking for ways to matter. Is this correct? Again, this is why having the full story is helpful…if this is what you are wanting from him, I would not advise approaching your situation with the concepts you are asking about.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Belle,
I am soooo so sorry for what you are going through. I know how confusing it can be to feel like things are going in one direction and then all of a sudden, the rug is ripped out from under you and takes you completely by surprise. It is such a powerless feeling and honestly, I think that is one of the most difficult feelings to deal with.
First, I want to say that it’s not about YOU having done something wrong. There are ALWAYS 2 sides that contribute to a breakup and while he might have a story about everything you did “wrong,” it doesn’t mean that it’s true. If you take a step back and look at the situation from a larger view, the biggest problem here is that he was not openly communicating to you. Something in him decided to keep his feelings, whatever they were, to himself and not share them with you until one day he just exploded and all of a sudden you are broken up and he is claiming he doesn’t love you anymore. There is not much you can do to improve your relationship if your partner won’t tell you what is happening for them. We ALL are human and have struggles, habits, challenging behaviors and we are ALL limited – and whether we like it or not, it affects our partner…be we need our partner to communicate with us to help guide us in being a better partner in the areas we have blind spots. Since he was not willing to talk to you about anything, how are you able to become better and more aware?
So now you are just left with a big guessing game as to what went wrong that caused him to make this kind of decision after 7 years.
What I do know about the psyche, is that making a quick, surprising decision like that typically means something has happened that he is not telling you about. Something within him happened. Maybe he did have an affair while he was gone and the guilt is chewing him up inside – and THAT absolutely will cause him to feel like he was falling out of love and wanting to break up. I’m guessing SOMETHING happened on his trip – maybe not an affair but possibly some life altering experiences / conversations etc. You said he seemed different since he got back. Considering how long he was gone, it’s possible he just changed through his experiences there and trying to re-enter in his life was difficult because he felt like a different person. Maybe as he tried to be back in his life again, it just didn’t fit anymore and he doesn’t quite know how to express that or deal with that in a healthy, authentic way.
The tough part is Belle, you cannot make him talk – so you left just “guessing” as to what went down, and that is a fruitless waste of energy. I know you want to understand what happened, but that is something that you just won’t get to have, unless he decides to be honest with you. And even at that, HE may not even understand what he is doing or how he is feeling fully and completely – so any real conversation with him may just put you in more confusion.
What you DO know is that he is running from something – whether he understands it or not. That’s the hard part. His decision to run is NOT about you…it’s about how he is CHOOSING to cope with whatever stress he is living with right now. Unfortunately, that choice sabotages connection and breaks trust and it’s so so sad and heartbreaking. My guess is, eventually he will end up feeling the full force of his choice. Maybe at that point, he will be willing to talk with you. The state he is in right now will not last.
I know you want to try and fix this, but honestly, this is something HE needs to fix, not you. Why? Because whatever is happening is within HIM, not you. You are clear. You KNOW what you want. He does not. So it’s important to give him space to figure that out all on his own. Giving him space means that he will feel the FULL consequences of his choice. Who knows how long that will take, but giving him that time is important. However, that may be something you are not able to do, and I understand that. If you do want to reach out, what I suggest is to come at him with gentle and curious energy…open and listening. So you could approach him by saying something like “Listen. It breaks my heart that you felt so unhappy with me. I completely understand that you got tired of fighting. It was a really big wake up call for me to look at how much my moods and how I expressed them was weighing on you. I am so sorry. Would you be willing to meet up and talk? I’m not going to try and get back together. I just want to understand more. I need to work on myself and losing you has been the catalyst for that. Can we just have an open and honest conversation? I want to be better. And I promise I will respect your decision and not try and change your mind….” I’m not sure he will respond to something like this, but it’s your best bet. And if he DOES respond, you need to make sure you show up with an open mind, commit to not getting defensive and fighting. He might say some things that are hard for you to hear, but you have to be willing to stay grounded, open and listening to HIS side of things and stay in a mindset of wanting to understand and NOT starting a fight.
Those are 2 ways to approach this and what you decide is more about what you are willing to do and your personality.
In the meantime, I do suggest working on yourself. From what he shared, it sounds like the relationship was a lot of work for him, so how did you contribute to that and how can you improve?
Heidi
Can you clarify who is the co-dependent? You BOTH exhibit these tendencies. He does it with the romantic partners he chooses and so do you. But in your relationship together, you are being co-dependent and he is not.
He has not waivered on who he thinks he is. Hasn’t he? He claims to be so authentic, he is who he is, he wants open communication, he wants loyalty….yet he has ghosted you, he chooses romantic partners that are NOT authentic and are NOT loyal, he picks the opposite of what he says he wants and while he has been an amazing friend for you, he also has not been there for you. He is not consistent. His words and his actions DO NOT align all the time, so he DOES waiver on who he thinks he is. You are thinking he has more self-esteem than he actually does because of what he SAYS about himself. True self-esteem is expressed through actions, NOT words. So I look at how someone lives their life, the people they choose to engage with, how they treat themselves and others under stress etc. He is filled with fear (he THINKS it’s his strength, constantly announcing to you that he is not going to take any sh*** – but that is 100% fear and insecurity) Someone who lives like that is incredibly fragile and has a lot of low self-esteem.
My gut said that he was most likely busy..He has told me that he has nothing to hide and he is straight forward. I let doubt creep in and what I need is to learn to keep doubt out. He really has never given me any reason to doubt him. Really? From what you have shared here, he has a pattern of ghosting you. Am I misunderstanding? Because THAT disappearing act is what breaks trust. He does it with his sister, he does it with you, and I have no doubt there are other people he does it to. It’s a pattern. You never know if he will respond. Is he there? Is he not there? Wouldn’t you say THAT, in and of itself, is a reason to doubt him?
It’s me…I don’t trust me and maybe that is what you have been getting me to figure out on my own..I need to know what’s broke and how to fix it..I am not by any means saying he doesn’t have issues he needs to deal with..I think the focus needs to be on me and how to put this insecure little girl to rest..Yes..I’m mad right now at myself. It didn’t feel right sending him that text but I did. Correct. You don’t trust yourself, therefore you don’t have the ability to trust anyone else. It starts within you. The same is true for him. He doesn’t trust anyone either, not even you. There is always going to be a BIG part of him that will be walled off from you and anyone he is in relationship with. Putting your insecure little girl to rest is quite the journey and requires the deep dive work you don’t feel ready for yet. So for now, you can work on the surface stuff, like improving your communication, but the insecure little girl will ALWAYS be influencing how you communicate. And as far as you sending that text, I LOVED IT! Well done! You spoke up! You used your voice! Who cares how it turned out. You did it for YOURSELF and that insecure little girl who is starved for connection. You took a risk and that is 100% okay! You should be celebrating yourself, not beating yourself up for it!
Fearful was the wrong term for me to use..It actually shouldn’t have even been used. We are not in a committed relationship so there isn’t an issue there. There IS an issue here. You made that statement 2x (and not by mistake) and there is energy around it. Maybe fear wasn’t the right word, but what word is?
I do think the focus has been off. I’m confused. You say you want to focus on you, but I feel like that’s all I have been doing…trying to help you understand your patterns, your choices, your way of thinking – I’m also explaining quite a bit about him too. Can you better guide me? How do you feel that I haven’t been focusing on that? I feel I have been very direct and straightforward, so help show me where you feel you aren’t getting that from me.
Heidi
I felt ashamed because I gave up a fight for my child..I knew deep down in my heart she was doing this so it would cancel out child support and she wouldn’t have to listen to her father bad mouth me. I can understand why you would feel ashamed. She obviously has the “rescuer” gene like you do! And that’s okay. She also has to deal with her choices and it sounds like she is 100% accepting of what she did. So now, all that is left is you forgiving yourself. Is that something you are willing to do?
My understanding him is for my personal benefit..If I understand why he is doing something in a certain manor, I can change my expectation with my interactions with him
When I apologized to him, that was me recognizing that I should have changed my behavior by recognizing his behavior..I hope that make sense?
I want to shed a light on these 2 statements here. I know it makes complete sense to you to think this way, as it’s how you have functioned your entire life. This type of thinking is co-dependent thinking. It’s using someone else’s behaviors to determine how you behave, so you can keep the peace and so you feel like you are likeable, amenable, and worth knowing. It’s called your “winning formula.” We ALL have a winning formula. It’s the formula we use to shine the brightest parts of ourselves so we can fit, be liked, be accepted, be fought for etc. I learned about this in my early 20s and identified what my winning formula was, and still to this very day, I fall into it. LOL. My winning formula is being the teacher. I have VERY deep knowledge and understanding about the human psyche. I know EXACTLY how to make someone feel safe, known, seen, and accepted. I know how to help people understand themselves. So that part of me tends to come up in conversations. My whole life, what I have heard the most from people was “I have never felt so understood or seen before.” And THAT is what made me feel special. THAT is what made me feel different than everyone else and what made me feel like I was valuable to them. So it’s a formula that contributes to my self-esteem. These days, I have a TON more self-esteem, so it’s not something I do often, but I will catch myself every once in a while. LOL.
Anyways, if you were FULL of self-esteem, you wouldn’t be thinking this way. Instead, you would be just be who you are, not concerning yourself about how HE is feeling. I guarantee you, he doesn’t change his behavior according to how you react. Like he has said to you a gazillion times…”I am who I am.” You are who you are by “reading the room.” You change according to what you are sensing and understanding about the situation or person. The hard part about being in a relationship with someone who has co-dependent tendencies, is you actually never know who that person truly is. You hardly know their needs and feelings and thoughts, because they are so concerned about yours. So it’s like being in relationship with an invisible person….you know they are there, but you actually know nothing about them, except that they are happiest when you are happiest.
Your expectations should be based off of what YOU require, not who he is. Your expectations are your standards as to how you want to be treated. And those standards need to be non-negotiable. Meaning, if someone does not align with your standards, they don’t get to be in your life. This is discernment. This is loving yourself by only allowing those people into your inner circle who value you, honor you, are curious about you, and who take care of your heart. And you have enough information to know what to expect from him. He will be there sometimes and sometimes he won’t. He will share certain things with you and some things he won’t. He is unpredictable, he is angry and resentful, he is very wounded, he doesn’t feel safe in his life, and he has MASSIVE walls built around his heart that are NOT going to come down for anyone. Even if he were to fall in love again, it will be limited and he absolutely will sabotage intimacy and he will pick someone who does the same thing…so any relationship he gets involved with will be challenging for him….but every single experience will be an opportunity for him to grow. Now….I pointed out all his limitations. I know he has greatness in him as well and he has given you some wonderful, healing experiences. I point out all the challenging stuff, because when having standards and when choosing who to give your heart to (friend, family, or lover) you need to decide that according to the worst of someone, not their best. It’s the worst of who we are that breaks trust, safety, and will break a relationship – IF the worst is dysfunctional and harmful. So when I let someone into my life on a deeper level, I am watching how they treat me, themselves, other people, and their thought process when they are under stress. NO ONE gets into my life that is harmful, critical, stonewalling, judgmental, victim and pointing the finger. Those types of coping mechanisms do not work on me and they are not safe people for me to hand my heart over to. Each person that is close to my heart treats me with respect, has incredible communication with me, they work on themselves, and we all approach life in similar ways…we face our fears, we own our limitations, we want the best outcome always. I have these standards and expectations because I embody those things first and foremost. I never ask for something from someone that I cannot offer myself. I also never ask for something from someone that they don’t have within them. So…here is a homework assignment for you. Write out a list of qualities that you want from a relationship – not romantic – just a friendship. And then circle the qualities that are non-negotiable for you. That means that if any of those non-negotiable qualities are missing, they don’t get to be in your inner circle. They can be on the outskirts, but they don’t get to have access to your full openness. Non-negotiables mean that you will not survive in the relationship. Without those qualities, you will never last with them. And I want you to also include in those non-nogotiables, how stress, arguments, and challenges are navigated. So for me, the moment someone calls me a name, points a finger at me and blames me, judges me, ghosts me, criticizes me – they are booted out of my inner circle. I will not be treated that way. I expect to be treated with open communication and with respect. That is non-negotiable. Does this make sense?
As far as your apology, again….it is NOT your job to recognize his behaviors to determine what he needs from you. It is HIS job to communicate his needs if he wants something different. End of story. Your job is to be yourself and let him be an adult and use his words if he wants something different from you. You trying to understand him so you can be support him better, is you trying to rescue him from his pain. How about rescuing yourself first. How about learning how to be comfortable being yourself, even if it disappoints someone or upsets someone. That’s a tough one, but it is the journey required if you are going to build your self-esteem and increase your strength in this area of your life.
My thoughts when he ghosts are that , he isn’t wanting to connect right now for what ever reason.. I think the only fearful thought I ever have and somehow need to bring it up to him so that he will actually answer me on it , is, Did he find another love interest? Why is this fearful for you? If you are okay with being friends, what does it matter if he found another love interest. I’m a little confused about this one.
I say this because he has told me that he won’t talk to or entertain the thought of another woman when he is in a relationship. I want to respect that boundary but also want the respect of being told if that should occur. It’s not up to you to respect his boundary if he hasn’t told you there is one. If and when he needs something different from you, it’s HIS job to tell you. Otherwise, you just be you. It’s not his obligation to tell you about his love life. I’m sure he knows how you feel about him, so he probably will avoid that topic because he doesn’t want to hurt you. That’s my educated guess, but of course I don’t know.
So maybe I need a recycle dumpster instead LOL. This is a much better analogy.
I will get to them soon enough here but then I need to know how to get past them never to be surfaced again…I know it’s not a one and done thing but I’m still here so there’s that… Getting past traumatic, heart breaking events requires working with an expert. You can’t think through them, you can’t dissect them and understand every single aspect of them and expect the pain to go away. Some pain may be released, but the core/deep wounding that occurs requires working with someone who knows how to guide you through those things. That is not what I do here, so you may want to hold those stories for a more private setting with someone who help you release that pain. I will tell you it’s possible though. My coach is INCREDIBLE and highly skilled with navigating the worst of life…and believe me – I have survived the darkest, most evil acts that most people don’t even know exist. Even those many moments have been great gifts for me. It is worth the money and worth the effort and worth the thousands of tears and rage and heartbreak to let go of the past. I’m happy to send you the information of my coach if you feel ready to deep dive like that. Just let me know.
Heidi
Thank you for remaining open and receptive Karen! Let’s keep digging in…
Funny story but also reflection of it makes sense as to why I struggle with voicing my opinions/concerns. I get it. I too struggled…it’s actually quite a common challenge for most women, as we are still dealing with a patriarchal approach to this world. I mean if you think about it, women finally were allowed to vote starting in the early 1900s, but even still, their opinions and voices were not recognized as equal. So us ladies not only have our personal struggles with using our voices, we all come from a looooooong lineage of a global collective not valuing our voices for thousands of years. Things are shifting now though. Every time you speak up Karen, you are not only speaking for yourself but for all women who were never allowed to express themselves. Keep working at it! Your voice matters. Maybe not to the person in front of you for that moment, but it matters to the collective. It matters to you and that little girl who shut down and wouldn’t talk. Give her a voice..but of course, allow her speak constructively. I love how would rather choose to say silent instead of something abusive or harmful and I love how you used letters to still express yourself. Good job! Keep doing that!
What kind of mom would he see me as? That’s why I couldn’t look at him or barely even finish the story. The real question here is not about how HE would see, but how do YOU see you. The truth is, when YOU are okay with yourself, it doesn’t matter what someone else thinks. For example, let’s say you have brown hair and you KNOW you have brown hair and someone comes along and says you have blond hair. Would their perspective matter? Would their view change your view? Nope. Why? Because you are solid in what you know. So because you cared sooooooo much about how he viewed you, that just shows how judgmental and critical you are towards yourself first and foremost, about your choices as a mother. I encourage you to really dive into this one and forgive yourself. The truth is, EVERY mother and father make decisions that cause harm to their children. EVERY parent is messy and that mess gets passed down to the children. There is no way around it. BUT…forgiving yourself for your humanness is soooooo important. It not only allows you to be free from your past, it also role models to your children how to move forward in life and not stay stuck in the past. Every time you make a decision to let go of the pain from your past, you are freeing yourself AND them energetically. You are sooooo forgiving and loving and connective with your guy, despite HIS messiness, yet you won’t offer the same compassion to yourself. Would you be willing to shift that for yourself?
I don’t want to see where I went wrong because I don’t believe I did anything wrong This is great, because it’s true. However, there is a flavor here where you are wanting to understand him “better” so you can support him “better” which insinuates that what you are doing isn’t enough to begin with….which insinuates on some level that you are doing missing something or doing something wrong. Even you apologizing for not giving him enough space insinuates that you did something “wrong.” Maybe “wrong” is not the best word. Maybe it’s more that you feel you are not doing enough, so you need to do better. This is more the flavor I am talking about. Do you have thoughts like “I wonder what I said that caused him to disappear?” “I wonder if I did something that pushed him away.” “What am I missing here?” Or anything of that nature….do these kinds of thoughts come into your mind?
He says he made peace with his dad before he passed but I don’t think he has and neither does his sister. I’m sure he made peace on some level, but unfortunately, there are multiple layers between parent and child. The thing is, if he never works with that child who was harmed by his father, he will ALWAYS feel unsafe, angry, resentful, over function, and have a ton of baggage. His adult side may have made peace with his dad, but his child self that is holding the memories and the pain from the past certainly did not.
If I am strong then I can be strong for others. Yes! Very true. But I’m curious…what does “being strong” look like to you? What do you think “strength” is?
I suppress my pain.Tuck it in the depths where nobody can see it unless they start poking around. Yes…this is what most people do. It’s how most people survive. The thing is, you THINK no one can see it, but I saw it from your first post. Pain is actually quite clear to see in someone if you just look at the kind of language they use, the decisions they make, and how they relate to themselves. It is more obvious than you realize. And that’s okay. It’s just part of human nature and learning how to relate to pain in a different way, is what will completely change how you move through life.
Pain to me is that baggage I need to dig out and throw in that dumpster..As of late, I’m thinking I need a bigger dumpster. I want to offer a different way to view this. Taking your pain out to the dumpster is a great analogy and I get it. It’s letting it go. However, pain is your teacher. It is showing you where you are not healed yet. It is an energy that is here to serve you, IF you let it. So instead of throwing your “pain” in the trash, how about imagining it being transformed into something beautiful…like butterflies, like sparkles, like love and gratitude. That’s what happens every time I heal…that pain transforms and gets added to my bank of love. Your memories then get released also transform and nothing has to go into the trash, so to speak. This type of perspective means you are viewing the worst moments of your life as something to value instead of something you are trying to get away from and dump. You want to work WITH the pain, not get rid of it. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Thanks for sticking with me Karen! I completely get your frustration. Communication is definitely a skill and doesn’t come easy for most people – especially when it comes to feelings that involve another person. I love that you are still willing to learn! That is the most important quality you could ever have!
I am a master communicator and very good at it, but my training in communication began in my teenage years. The key to effective communication is knowing yourself, your patterns, your feelings…inside and out. The more you understand what lives beneath the surface of your feelings and stories, the easier it is to filter out what doesn’t need to be said and what is worth saying. The other KEY part of effective communication, is to be very clear about WHY you want to communicate something. There are MANY times I will not express my feelings, because the person receiving it, wouldn’t receive it well. All I would be doing is expressing my thoughts and feelings, only to end up feeling rejected all over again. Other times, I know I will most likely be rejected, but I say what I need to say for the SOLE purpose of using my voice and practicing saying something that is hard for me to say. Learning how, when, and what to say is a skill and takes a lot of practice. Most of all, learning how to communicate in a way that doesn’t put YOUR feelings in the hands of the other person, is another key. How I feel, is 100% my responsibility…end of story. If I am expressing my feelings for the OTHER person to fix them, I am then disempowered and asking the other person to do for me, what I am not willing to do for myself. This is a really tough question that my coach always brings me back to when I am upset with someone or want something from someone. What is it that you are wanting them to do for you that you are not willing to do for yourself? This is soooooo not a fun question, because it requires you to learn how meet your own needs instead of looking to someone else. It’s the more difficult path, yet the path that keeps you empowered and builds confidence. Would you be willing to spend some time with this question? I’d love to know what answers you come up with. If you need help with this one, let me know.
This coach I’m working with doesn’t think I stand up for myself enough..She’s made some really good points..This spineless thing really bothers me though..Hell my nickname in high-school was Spaz..I didn’t want to live flying off the handle and not understanding the whole situation..That’s called growth and maturity..Trying to stick it out with her because I need to hear the hard truths..I need honesty or I can’t grow.. His response was: Stand and don’t take bullshit..Lol I don’t deal with any of it anymore..Lol I’m one that if you F**k with me and you will find out quickly..Lol Let’s talk about the spineless thing. I would not put that word on it. You just have a co-dependent pattern – a pattern that is part of your DNA and that you can’t help. It’s the coping strategy that you used and developed in your younger years in order to survive. Every single one of us has a coping strategy. Mine was narcissism, shutting down and being passive aggressive, being revengeful, and sometimes being super co-dependent. Our coping strategies will be with us FOREVER. No matter how healthy you get, no matter how much you clear your baggage and become higher functioning, your need to please others at the expense of yourself will ALWAYS be running in your veins. As you grow and become stronger, all that happens is that you are able to manage that coping strategy in a much better way. Your instinct will be to make the other person happy, but instead what you will do is consciously acknowledge that feeling and then make a different choice, instead of always giving into that instinctual response. That “spineless” part of you is a gift and saved you. The little girl you were needed to figure out how to survive your life and she did a pretty darn good job of it. Your “peacemaker” did exactly what she needed to do in order to feel the safest she possibly could, so how about you rename that part of yourself from “spineless” to “peacemaker.” That is so much more the truth of that part of you.
His response was him encouraging you and he is right, sort of. He is angry and frustrated and his anger is protecting him from feeling the amount of hurt he is carrying. He is going from one extreme to the other – letting people in that are going to definitely use him, to not letting anyone in at all – including you. A more healthy response would come from the energy of clarity and discernment – something he doesn’t have.
I draw blanks and get overwhelmed with connection. It’s why I prefer to type/write things out. Then I can read it more than once to understand better. I guess where I am really confused with him is when he stopped being so open with me. I realize he may also be having a hard time putting into words what he wants to say and therefore ghosting is a much easier thing for him to do. How do I convey this frustration? Writing is great! It definitely is a very powerful way to start. I do the same thing sometimes. I will write and write and write and modify a ton of times until I am very clear about what I want to say. But then…I make sure that I saw what I need to say in person. That’s the skill Karen. If you want deep connection, using your voice is soooooo so important. And the truth is, even if you get messy with it, the people that are worth fighting for and having in your life, will love you regardless. Those that cannot tolerate your messiness in communication, they are not the right fit for you.
Him ghosting is HIS coping strategy. Yes, he may have a hard time finding the words, but there are MANY other layers and reasons why someone ghosts. Fear is the biggest, core reason. They are afraid of getting hurt AND it’s also a passive aggressive way to “get back” at the person. Let me see if I can explain this….although you are not a person who has really hurt him, you are a female, therefore you get lumped into the “female” category of the type of person he cannot “trust” because his original role model, his mother, didn’t protect him. He is viewing women through a child’s lens, not an adult lens (he is not aware of this of course – it’s all coming from the subconscious). So his ghosting is a VERY young response to his life. His ghosting is HIS little boy trying to survive – that little boy is terrified and doesn’t trust life – so no matter how nice you are to him, he is going to run – not because of you, but because of the pain that lives within him and is soooooo big, that it is running his life. Does this make sense?
It wasn’t until he texted me about the actual break up that I found out he had been still with her all summer.Somehow this didn’t make me angry at all with him..I’m thinking that I need a sit down with him at some point and we really need to dive into what has happened over the past year..Yes in a sense I can see he has been stringing me along and maybe his intentions were purely just being able to connect on some level with a female. He was getting one thing from me and another with her and the more I treated him with respect, the less he was connected to her? Does he feel guilty about our connection? I’m just throwing out random thoughts as they pop in my head and hopefully you can make sense of them. I’m not sure he is conscious about stringing you along. I think that you truly mean something to him and he probably feels the safest with you compared to any other woman he has come across. However, like I previously said, he is one big ball of pain – and it’s enough pain, that he has no idea how to view his life, you, or anything for that matter, through a clear lens. Pain is always part of his filter. He doesn’t trust love, he doesn’t trust deep connection, he doesn’t trust other people – but at the core, he doesn’t trust himself. Again, he doesn’t have awareness of this. He is just doing the best he can to survive his life and keep the pain as minimal as possible.
Please excuse the the scatter of my brain but I really want to make sense of what has happened between us this past year to now. Listen Karen, you are wanting something from him that he can’t give you. You want to pick his brain and talk about his deep insecurities and talk about his feelings, and talk about the why and what and how of all of it. You want this deep understanding from him. You want HIM to make sense of this relationship, but why? It doesn’t matter what has happened over the past year. The details of why he makes the choices he does mean absolutely nothing. What DOES matter is the end result – and that’s it. The end result is that he is someone who ghosts…that is HIS coping mechanism. Someone who ghosts is full of fear and that fear will ALWAYS prevent intimacy. It has NOTHING to do with you specifically. He would be like this, no matter who was standing in front of him. I’m guessing you are trying to have this deep understanding so you can see where YOU went wrong that would cause him to ghost. Yes? What will this understanding you are seeking, do for you? What do you think you will get from understanding him better?
The friend “Level” : worthy of hanging out with, just someone to talk to now and then, customer friend etc. Like where do I fit in all that, what are my boundaries? I don’t want to be a one sided friend where if I need to vent or express to him that he doesn’t return the favor. I am who I am, I feel every person is important and will often times put my needs aside to help others. I’ve been working on that and setting my own boundaries and only doing/helping where I choose to. You are asking where you fit and it’s a great question, but I want to invite you to approach this question differently. How about, where does HE fit? You keep trying to figure out how YOU fit with him, but instead – a more empowered and confident mindset is – where does HE fit for you? Is HE worthy of your trust, your love, your connection?. Yes, every person is important AND it does not mean that you put your needs aside to help others. These 2 things are not synonymous. Like I previously have said, learning how to be comfortable with someone else’s pain and discomfort is important. The only way to do that, is to first get comfortable with your own pain. Getting comfortable with pain means changing the story you have about it. Most people view pain as something to get out of as fast as possible, something to avoid, something to run from, something to fix as fast as possible. Instead, my story about pain is it’s my teacher. That means spending time with my pain. That means exploring what it has to teach me about whatever is happening. It is the greatest gift to people….pain reveals where we are not free. So because I have the highest respect and honor for my own pain, it allows me to also have that for others – therefore there is no need for me to put my needs aside for others. I trust they can figure out how to meet their own needs and that the pain or discomfort they are feelings is an important part for them to learn how to become more empowered in their life. Does this bring understanding on a deeper level? I know I’ve said all of this before, but someone saying it differently can be helpful.
I’m so very proud of you Karen. You are brave, open and willing to learn, even in your frustration – and you are really wanting more out of life. I love that you are here!
Let me know your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Karen,
Wow. Your first marriage was really difficult. That is the only option when married to a narcissist. I’m so sorry you had to go through all of that, but I am so glad that you no longer have to deal with that kind of energy constantly suppressing you. Being involved with a narcissist on any level, guarantees the slow waning of self-esteem for anyone. You really have come a long way since then. Well done!
I can tolerate a lot.. As far as the ghosting..I am understanding more about him but I do not want to pick meaningless fights at this point. I’m a little confused. I’m not sure what you mean by picking a meaningless fight. I feel like we may have missed each other a bit, because that is the last thing I am advising. At least, I didn’t mean to insinuate that. I was more inviting you into looking at how YOU were the one apologizing for HIS choices. I was attempting to show you how the submissive energy can actually damage a connection. Did you take it as me coaching you to pick a fight with him? Help me understand.
He’s told me before that sometimes he needs to be called out yet everytime I run y how I want to call him out, I’m being told it will just make him shut down or that he’ll run for the hills. So really what do I have to lose?? Maybe I need to word some things differently but…IDK..I’m just getting really frustrated at this point… Thank you for sharing your frustration. Let’s work through this. I’m not at all saying that you shouldn’t call him out. Your letter does not come across as that at all. Your letter was this gentle, soft “how are you feeling about me” kind of letter…not a calling him out kind of letter. It was a letter basically from a woman who has feelings for him, asking him if he had feelings for her too. That is how it’s coming across. That is what I am saying will make him run from the hills. Calling him out would look more like “Hey. I feel like we enter in and out of our friendship. You are there and then all of a sudden you disappear and I stop hearing from you. I have no idea why or what’s happening, but I do want to share it doesn’t feel good for me. Can you help me understand what is happening for you?” Do you see the difference between that and what you are saying: I want to understand our level of friendship from your perspective. No , I NEED to understand it or it will drive me insane with scenarios.Please give me this? Please be straight up honest as to what you want from our relationship? I was not looking for a partner. I still am not Looking but am open. Honestly, I am good either way, I just want to know exactly where I fit.. What is a “level of friendship?” You are basically asking if he has feelings for you. You want to understand where you “fit” into his life. These are questions that ONLY someone who has romantic feelings would ask…if you truly ONLY wanted friendship, you would not be writing a letter like this…so it’s not a letter calling him out on anything.
You want to understand where you fit in his life. I want to say again, his ACTIONS are telling you everything you need to know. He even has said a few different ways that he is NOT wanting a relationship right now. I know that may feel confusing for you considering how he originally reached out to you and how he has acted with you sometimes. I get it. This is something I keep wanting to bring to your attention…his is NOT clear. He does one thing, then does another…not only with you, but with his sister and even with the women he chooses to commit to, that goes against what he actually wants. This is a strong pattern of his. This is what makes him emotionally unavailable. I will tell you from experience, that it doesn’t matter how many times you confront someone about patterns that are THIS strong, it doesn’t shift or change until they do the deep emotional work that is causing the pattern. The pattern may change for a period of time, but it always slips back and things go back to the way they originally were.
I’m realizing I am not clear. I actually don’t know what you want. You keep saying you are okay with friendship, yet you still want to give him that letter and ask him how he feels about you. So which is it? Do you want friendship, or do you want something romantic? And if you want something romantic, then tell him. Say what you need to say and find out what happens. If you want to call him out on his disappearing act AS A FRIEND, then do it and tell him what you need differently. However, when you do something like that, you need to also know that no matter what he says, pay attention to his actions over time. You need to decide if the type of friendship he offers is enough for you. If it is, then great! Just know he will disappear sometimes and most likely come back at some point and you can pick up where you left off.
No matter what I say Karen, you still get to do whatever it is that you want to do. My job is to shed a light on things that you don’t quite see. My job is to offer a different perspective. My job is to share about behaviors and what they most likely mean, including your own patterns and choices.
So help me guide you better. I’m frustrating you and that is sometimes part of the journey. As long as you stick with me here, we can keep exploring everything until you feel clear about what you want to do! So help me understand what you want to do.
Heidi
Thank you for sharing your heart Karen! I definitely appreciate the analogy of a “skid mark.” It’s a great descriptor. You really have been through a lot. I can see why you are clinging onto this guy for connection much more now.
Let’s dive in, shall we?
Your poem: Do you have any sense how much that poem is telling him that you are in love with him? Even though you mention about him being with another woman…”the one” – it’s pretty obvious that YOU want to be that one. I know this may not have been your intention, but you writing a poem for ANY guy…is a pretty intimate thing…especially the “I see you” kind of poem. I know you are wanting to be that “different” girl who actually treats him the way he wants to be treated and to see him in a way he has never been seen before….all in hopes he would open his heart to you and offer you that deep connection you are craving. You are such a deep connector and it’s really really beautiful and powerful AND it needs to land on a guy who actually wants it, is ready for it, and wants to offer it to you in return. The more you tell me his responses to you, the more I am really seeing how he just doesn’t see you in that romantic way. He really only wants to be friends and there is a limit to that Karen…for ALL male and female friends. You are valuable to him of course, but as a friend that is more surface where you can be there for each other every once in awhile and have a mutual respect, but NOT the kind of friends where you talk all the time and share intimate details all the time – that is just not something men and women can do. The more you try to go deep with him, the more you tell him how amazing he is, the more you apologize for just being you, the more you will push him away.
Part of being discerning Karen, is realizing you DO have a big beautiful heart. It’s a gift and something very unique and special about you that needs to be protected. By that, I mean being VERY picky with who you share your heart with. Being discerning means you are sharing your heart with someone who is able to receive what you are offering. This guy is able to receive it really well in moments (as a friend), but he does not have the ability to sustain a connection with you in a healthy, stable, consistent way in order to allow the relationship to continue to grow….and that is really really tough on the heart. Being protective, being discerning, means having standards as to how you are treated and requiring that someone align with your standards or they don’t get to interact with your heart energy.
You sent him a text apologizing to him, but the reality is, you need to be apologizing to yourself, for not facing the hole that lives within you and trying to use him to fill it. He doesn’t need an apology from you. He needs you to NOT look to him for that deep connection you are craving and that he does not want to offer you. By apologizing, you again, are trying to be that “nice” girl and treat him in ways he has never been treated, so you can be valuable to him, but what you are actually doing is pushing him away with your niceness. Men, and people in general, do not respect someone who apologizes all the time, especially for things that don’t warrant one. He completely disappears on you, and YOU are the one apologizing for not giving him space? You are telling him that he is so amazing and he has a special place in your heart…all the while he was ghosting you. To a guy, that is a woman with no spine and it has a “needy” quality to it. You are basically teaching him that he can treat you any which way he wants and you will always be that nice girl that will take it. Does he have any idea that you are angry or hurt about how he has treated you? Have you ever expressed that him? THAT is actually what is attractive to a man…a woman who has standards and stands up for herself….a woman who will call him out on his bullish*** and require him to be better….a woman who he trusts will always be authentic and honest even if it’s scary and hard. Does this make sense? I realize this may be a bit uncomfortable for you, or maybe not. I don’t know. Let’s keep talking about this. I know that what you are sharing here is a grain of sand compared to the whole picture, so I may not be sensing things correctly.
Heidi
I guess the best way I can help him is to stop making myself so ready to help.. It’s less about being ready to help and more about your mindset WHEN you help. If you are helping to try to rescue someone from their pain, THAT is what can be harmful. You are just holding space for someone to vent, share, or unburden themselves and you listen, validate, and ask question and offer guidance WITHOUT attachment that they get out of pain so YOU can feel better…that is more healthy. When I offer guidance and “help” people, I’m completely okay they are hurting. I don’t get wrapped up in their pain and I don’t have a need to lessen their pain. My goal is to bring a different perspective, connect them to a higher truth, help them understand their situation in a different way…if their pain lessens, great! If not, I trust the process. Does this make sense?
I found myself basically just waiting for the late night text to come. I’m not sure though if it was more for him or me. As I said before, my brother used to call me every night. I hadn’t had that for 3 years at that point so I was really missing that connection. BULLSEYE!!!! I love that you made this connection! He is filling in for your brother. That connection you had with him was soooooo darn special and amazing and this guy was giving you some of that. Of course you responded and of course you want to keep this “friendship” moving forward. He is giving you a flavor of what your brother offered and letting it go, means you go back to feeling that hole that your brother left.
It’s the connection I am missing most. I did call him out a few weeks after that because he wasn’t talking to me as much. I told him it felt like we were going back to the customer zone again. I also told him if he was seeing someone to let me know because I wanted to respect his boundries of not talking with other women when he’s in a relationship. He had responded back that he was just living life and hanging out with as many friends as he could. He also ended it with and you’re my friend and don’t ever think that you’re not. I apologized to him and he said all was good. The more and more you share, the more I am seeing how he is running from you. Karen, he is not going to allow himself to have feelings for you beyond friendship. He says he was just busy and hanging out with as many friends as he could (except for you) all while claiming that you were his friend too and don’t think you’re not. Huh???? He is making no sense here. Again, his actions and words are saying completely different things, so you are left with trying to decipher what you actually mean to him.
I guess now I’m torn and in limbo of if or where he will fit into my life now. Let me ask you this…how much do you really want to keep investing in a guy who drives a car pressing the gas AND the break all at the same time? He will only continue to send you mixed messages. He will only continue to show up and connect AND disconnect and disappear (while still calling you his friend). Do you see how he is bread crumbing you?
I guess it’s the thought of looking for a relationship that scares me. What is so scary about this thought? This thought scares you, yet you want a relationship with a guy who pulls you in, then disappears A LOT? Doesn’t THAT scare you to hand your heart over to a guy like that? Also, why not just be open instead of looking? I’m completely open to a relationship, but I am not looking for one. I don’t concern myself with it, but I remain open to connection as it comes across my path. I’m SUPER cozy with my life. If someone adds to it, great! If not, I feel complete as is.
A few days later when I was up at his place he brought up to me that he was done with womanizers, pedifiles and abusers. (He had to help a friend that weekend move because her boyfriend choked her her and beat her. He was friends with her boyfriend another older couple) So we left it at that. I am soooo so sorry! This makes me sick to my stomach! I know you wanted your guy friend to be horrified and be protective of you and it’s a bummer that he didn’t have that response. It sounds like your guy seems to also choose friends who are incredibly dysfunctional. No doubt because of his past. He obviously had incredibly poor role modeling and plenty of experiences to teach him he doesn’t deserve any better.
I have just kept hoping that he respected me enough to spell it out for me. I want to hear him say it. Honestly it makes me angry with him that he won’t follow through with me he things he said : He’s always straight upfront with nothing to hide. He believes in communication and balance in relationships. He says this, but his actions tell you differently. Remember, if someone’s words and actions are NOT in alignment, their ACTIONS show you who they REALLY are. I understand your anger and your need to have him say it to you. I want to encourage you to let it go. He is sooooo confused and so torn up inside, he just doesn’t have the capability. It has NOTHING to do with respecting you…it has to do with him not respecting himself. He cannot offer something to you, that he doesn’t have to give to himself first and foremost.
Here is an example:You did fine..Your smart and clear..If you weren’t I wouldn’t even talk to you..Good people” I said good to know and he sent back. That’s wy I talk with you..We’re friends and that’s where it is. I’m not open to many people” He says this, yet he dates a drug addict, cheaters, and women who treat him like shit, he has a friend who grabs your croch, a friend who strangles and beats his girlfriend and he says he is “done with womanizers, pedifiles, and abusers.” To me, this is a guy who is NOT discerning and a guy who is open to all kinds of people, yet he thinks the opposite of himself. This is again…his words and actions NOT aligning.
I’m a very tuff person to figure out. Many have tried and it will never happen. LOL.. I’m me and that’s how it is. He actually is not interested in anyone knowing him. That’s why he keeps you at a distance. You are NOT safe for him because he knows you will see him more than anyone else ever has. To him, that is NOT a good thing. To him, that terrifies him. So he will connect and get doses of you, but he will always disappear for who knows how long, so you can’t get too close.
He says one thing and does another and I really want to call him out on it..I’m wondering if I actually in a sense figured him out and it scares him??Am I getting to close to understanding him and he really doesn’t want that barrier broken? YES YES YES! The thing is Karen, he holds himself in a higher regard with how he talks, yet his actions show you how much he actually hates himself. His presentation is all a facade, but that is what keeps him going. He needs to think this way about himself and other people in order to keep functioning…because underneath that “tough” exterior, is a guy who is soooooo broken. He can’t go there though, because he would completely fall apart, so he is just surviving..and he will always stay there. He is not going to change. He is waaaay too fragile to make any impactful or meaningful changes in his life without some serious help. That’s why he chooses such low functioning people in his life…he gets to be “better than” them. But you are NOT that and there is NOW WAY he is ever going to let you in…all YOU will end up doing with your love and your connection, is activate his low self-esteem…he will constantly feel “less than” you just by you simply being a really good person. Does this make sense?
Regardless, I’m glad I kept going with you because quite frankly, I didn’t think you were getting it at first. Thanks for sticking it out with me. It’s definitely stirring things up with and and I want to get it figured out. I’m glad you stuck with me too. I completely get that you thought I was missing the mark. First, this platform is incredibly difficult to relay very complicated concepts that I normally teach in person. Second, I sometimes do miss the mark in the sense that I end up 100 steps ahead of the person without realizing I missed some crucial pieces along the way. I have had to catch myself MANY times. I am a VERY fast grower, thinker, and mover when it comes to this stuff and because of it, I absolutely stumble. I deeply appreciate you staying with me!!! There is a lot to talk through, so let’s keep going. I trust you will continue to slow me down or if you don’t feel understood, you will let me know. I deeply care about your understanding of your situation!! I want you to feel VERY CLEAR about the direction you want to head into.
Heidi
I’m so sorry it took so long to reply! For some reason, I completely missed your post and just now saw it.
Thank you for sharing about your exes. The first one sounds like a great experience…until it wasn’t. But what a great learning experience for both of you. The second one…yikes! I’m glad you eventually figured out how to get away from him. That’s so crazy how difficult it was to completely block him from contacting you! While social media is an amazing and powerful entity, it also is not and your situation is a testament to that.
he might misconstrue himself as an incomplete partner because he has an incomplete mission I’m sure he does. One of the biggest CORE differences between men and women and how we operate and think, is this: Men…at the VERY CORE of who they are…need to produce. If you take away a man’s job, if you take away his ability to make something (money, projects, etc.) he will completely fall apart and become completely unavailable for relationships. They tend to stop talking and connecting and 100% of their focus goes towards figuring out how to “make it” in this world. I have seen this soooooo many times…no matter how much a guy likes a girl, if his finances and career/job are not in order, he will break up, he will run from the relationship, or he will disconnect from the girl. For women, the core of us is relationship. If you take relationships away from us, we have the same kind of response. Depression, anxiety, our life is falling apart, we are failures etc. That’s why it tends to be more natural for the man to work all day and the woman takes care of the family. If you put a man in the home, while he might take care of the kids, he will also find projects at home to do and things to fix. That’s why women, when their careers or money situation is falling apart, they rely on their man even more for comfort, for ideas, for support, for encouragement, while a man in the same situation feels shame and disconnects. It’s a beautiful difference that we have, yet it can be very challenging…especially for the women who just want connection and want to support the guy through his struggles. For us, it seems so simple and easy, but for a guy…it hits at his very core self-esteem. Does this make sense?
However, I’ve noticed that both now and in the past that I would be more tolerant of avoidant behavior than most because I’m very low-maintenance and perceive what other people would consider extended periods of space as normal and healthy, especially in the pre-commitment stages. This makes a lot of sense. It sounds like you 2 have a really good rhythm and that space allows you both to just “be” with not pressure. That’s fantastic!
When I compliment him or state something that I like about him, or tell him he’s wrong when he says no one wants him, he responds positively, doesn’t perseverate on his more negative point of view, and doesn’t try to gaslight me into leaving him because he’s not good enough for me. Interesting. I’m getting your point of view a little more, especially taking into account your past experiences. For me, what you are saying here about his low self-esteem is below baseline of what is needed to have a relationship actually have something to stand on. But for you, this is a step up and a more elevated and hopeful experience so it makes you feel like there is potential here. I get it better now!
I want to also give you a little tip when he might say something bad about himself. Instead of saying anything with the flavor of “You’re wrong…” validate his point of view and then tell him how yours is different. By saying he is “wrong” in any sort of way, it is not giving his opinion or perspective any room to exist. His opinion and perspective is valid TO HIM and I have no doubt he could list MANY examples that support his perspective. So to telling him he is “wrong” is shutting him down and making your opinion the “right” one. So let’s say he says “no one ever wants me.” That is obviously a cry for help and him needing some positive vibes. So there are a couple of ways you could approach this. You could dive into that more and get curious about his statement. This gives the person space to talk out what they are feeling. So you could saying something like “You have said this to me before and I realize that even though I don’t agree with that, I actually don’t understand your perspective very well. How come you feel this way? What has happened that would make you believe this?” And then you can gain a deeper understanding of his exact perspective. And many times, I will validate their belief and say something like “Yes..I get it now. With what you have experienced, I can now see why that belief was created.” And then, another question I might introduce is “So that’s all the bad stuff, what about the good stuff? I’m sure you have had some experiences of people really liking you. Tell me about those.” Another approach, if you don’t have the time or energy to dive deeper into his comment, you can say something like “I know you feel this way and I”m sure you have had a lot of experiences to validate that belief. AND…I am here right now and I want to know you. So no matter what has happened in the past, in THIS moment, you are wanted. Isn’t that all that matters anyways?” Another approach is say something to get him out of that dark, serious belief. You could say something like “Oh come on! Those ladies had no idea what they were missing in you. Lucky me because I think you are fantastic!” Just something to think about.
Even if we haven’t crossed the bridge of being exclusive yet, watching him get breadcrumbed really messes with my head and is perhaps the most angering part of dealing with his low self esteem. I understand. It’s incredibly difficult to watch someone allow themselves to be treated so poorly. I go through that ALL THE TIME as I’m trying to coach women into higher ways of functioning and making decisions that actually get them closer to what they want…all while they are trying to make something work that is incredibly broken and they aren’t willing to let it go. What I always bring myself back to is this…it’s THEIR journey, not mine. I can plant seeds and when and if those seeds ever sprout into something meaningful, I can know that I at least showed them a different way. I at least gave them a picture of what is possible and the rest is up to the universe or God or life or whatever you believe in. The same is true here. This guy NEEDS to be breadcrumbed. The reality of all of us, is we tend to need to be in enough pain in order to make different decisions. So this guy is just not in enough pain to approach his life differently. All the while, you are standing right in front of him…a woman with intelligence, integrity, patience, confidence, and deep understanding and a beautiful heart…yet he still wants to interact with the breadcrumbs and chaos. What does that say about you? What do you think it says about you, that you are choosing to fight for a guy who WANTS to interact with breadcrumbs and NOT give you his FULL attention? As a coach, I definitely would invite you to look more deeply into your reaction and instead of making HIS decisions what “messes with your head” look within and explore what specifically is triggering you.
Either he indulges in his masculine energy and pushes his self-doubt to the side, showing that he’s worth putting effort into, or he’ll wallow or buck out and show that he’s too deep in his own head for anything more than a far off fantasy.
I won’t really respond to this since the event already passed. How did everything go? What’s the update?Heidi
Hi Karen! This is such a great conversation. I love your curiosity and your willingness and openness to learn! Not everyone has that quality. While you feel you have a lot of low self-esteem, you also some amazing self-esteem. It takes courage to have this conversation with me and it takes confidence to be able to explore a situation.
Diving a little deeper and from my conversations with him..I feel if he had the right partner who was willing to talk things out, he wouldn’t feel like he has to resort to numbing his pain through alcohol. At least that is what he has expressed he wants in a relationship. I get it. Of course he wants that in a relationship. Everyone does. Whether they actually choose that experience is a whole different thing. The thing is, relying on a person to talk things out so that he doesn’t numb the pain with alcohol is what is called and “external locus of control.” It means that someone is set up to rely on the outside world (people, jobs, friends, family etc) to tell them whether they are okay, whether they are happy or sad, the quality of their life. An “internal locus of control” is when someone is able to find their happiness, their stability, their joy, their quality of life SEPARATE from the outside world. This is a more developed way of moving through life. People who carry a lot of wounded energy typically live with an external locus of control. It’s the way a child moves through the world. A child believes that everything that is happening around them is because of them and the outside world determines their feelings of safety and wellbeing. When a child has a lot of trauma during their younger developmental years, their emotional growth gets “stunted.” Very long story short, people who rely on the outside world for their well being, tend to have a lot of trauma and stunted young energy that never had a safe environment to develop and had poor role modeling. So…thinking that a “healthy” relationship will help him not want to “numb” up, however he does it, is relying on someone else to help him. The problem with that is what is he going to do when that person is the one who is stressing him out? That person will hurt his feelings, trigger him into his fear and stress and THEN WHAT? His normal resource is the offending party, so how is going to get through the situation when his normal way of getting help isn’t there for him?
I do think I played an important role, although I am no expert for sure, In being able to open his eyes to a pattern he has developed. I know it got him thinking from responses he gave me. I hope he is more self aware. I pointed out to him to take a look at his past relationships and learn from them. He has told me multiple times that he is going to work on himself. I don’t know what that exactly means to him though You absolutely are an important person in his life. There is no doubt about that. You are a new experience for him, just like he is for you…you both are important experiences to each other. A lot of people say they need to work on themselves, but most people just think about what needs to change, yet they aren’t actually willing to do the deep work to get there. Time will tell.
I’m just trying to put the pieces together here. I really want to understand him. I don’t like seeing people hurting. I know it’s difficult watching people hurt. Maybe I can give you a different perspective to you feel more comfortable with it. Pain is a gift. Pain is what creates movement. Pain is a VERY IMPORTANT part of life and is meant to show each of us where we are stuck. Without pain, we wouldn’t know what things from our past that we are holding onto that are creating limitation in our lives. Pain inspires people to learn. So when I see someone in pain, I know how important that pain is for their growth, so I don’t try and rescue them from it. I support, but I don’t fix. THEY need to fix it themselves and it’s a VERY important part of the journey. Like an addict, it’s the intense pain of “hitting bottom” that finally gets them into recovery or asking for help. Like your guy, it was the pain of being cheated on AGAIN, that is making him want to make different choices. So while you don’t like seeing people in pain, it’s damaging in inhibitory to their growth for you to step in and try to soothe the pain for them. If you keep helping him “fix” his pain, then the pain ends up not being great enough to create movement. Here is story that explains this concept really well. When you really understand the gifts that pain brings into life, then YOU get more comfortable with it. https://www.instituteofcuriosity.com/the-butterfly-story/. There are MANY versions of this story, but you will get the point.
Maybe I’ll look into some things for groups. I did consider going horseback riding and looked up some stables close to me. That’s something I have always wanted since I was a kid. Don’t know how well the group thing would work but it’s a start. I signed up for embodiment coaching tonight, so I have that to look forward to.I will be planning another getaway for spring to a place I have been before. A place I fell in love with many years ago. I would definitely feel comfortable going there alone even more than my last trip. YES YES YES!!! I LOVE horseback riding. Horses are sooooo amazing. Interacting with animals can be so powerful. DO IT! That exactly what I mean by getting out and making new friends. Do activities that you love to do and then you will meet people naturally that way! Plan your trip. Adventures and novelty are sooooo good for the soul.
Being open to a stranger terrifies me and well, I’d rather be alone than to be open and in search of. I don’t want to do online dating. Hmmmm….what is so terrifying about this? You know…this guy was a stranger at one point. I’m not saying you should do online dating. I definitely wouldn’t recommend that for you. I say you just go live your life, having fun and doing activities and if someone shows up that interests you, you can deal with it at that time. No looking, no purposeful dating…just bring more joy into your life through activities that you love.
As far as your letter, I love it! I love that you wrote it all out and expressed how you really feel. That is sooooo good to do! I do recommend you never send this though. The odds of him running for the hills are pretty high. I also always encourage people to talk face to face about things like this. Why? Because there are sooooo many ways that something can be misinterpreted. Talking in person allows for clarification IN THE MOMENT. The thing is, your guy friend is right. You are asking for clarity and want to understand how he views you and how he feels about you…but he is already showing you. He comes close, then he disconnects, he hasn’t made any efforts towards bringing you closer into his life and he has never expressed feelings for you, beyond friendship. His ACTIONS are telling you exactly what you want to know, you just don’t want to listen. When a guy wants something, he will go after it. And if he doesn’t, then fear is getting in the way. If fear is getting in the way, then it’s CRUCIAL that HE makes the decision to face it and not be coaxed or hand held through it. That’s part of growing up. There is a great saying by someone: Listen when someone SHOWS you who you are. Words are NOT as powerful as actions. It’s the actions of someone that speaks MUCH LOUDER than any words. So his ACTIONS are showing you he is not interested. I’m sure he has feelings for you and I have no doubt you are valuable to him however, something is stopping him from taking the friendship further…whatever that is, that’s for HIM to deal with. It is SO SO SO SO important for the guy to initiate and there are a lot of reasons for this. It’s important for the woman to be patient and let the man come to her ON HIS OWN TIME…when a woman pushes a man into something by “talking” about feelings he is not ready to express…it changes the dynamics in so many ways. There is A LOT to say about this concept. Of course it’s not 100% how things need to go, but for your situation, HE NEEDS TO FACE HIS FEAR and you need to let him. He NEEDS to deal with his girlfriend choices without YOU trying to place yourself in that role.
I’m going to explain a concept that may help explain where I am coming from. It can help you understand him and yourself on a deeper level.
The #1 reason why people don’t get better is they start to get what they want, but they aren’t set up to have it. This concept is called the “upper limit.” There are many names for it, but that is the one I use. The upper limit is the limit that we allow ourselves to be happy. Basically, the amount of our low self-esteem determines how happy we allow ourselves to be. The low self-esteem we carry, acts as anchors in our system. Imagine a large boat…how much movement will it have to move in the direction it wants when a ton of anchors are attached to it? Our low self-esteem acts in the same way. I have seen this soooooo many times in others AND in myself. Here is an example for me…my college and early 20s was spent being attracted to emotionally unavailable “bad boy” kind of guys. I hated that! I knew exactly what I was doing and I knew there was never that “happy ending,” yet I did it anyways. Well this one guy…Edward…he was a nice guy and very available. I knew myself well enough by then that I the nice guys that came into my life, kept my attention for about 2 weeks. Right around the 2 week mark, I would lose interest. Each time it was a different reason, but I had this strong pattern. So when Edward came into my life, I did EVERYTHING I could NOT to like him, because I knew I would hurt him. But the pull was so strong, so I thought maybe…just maybe…I would be different this time. Nope…right around 2 weeks, I lost feelings for him. He was so “boring” and “uninteresting” and “too nice.” What I didn’t realize then and what this experience taught me, was I was hitting my upper limit. I was being treated well and getting everything I ever wanted from those “bad boys” but once I was getting it, I wasn’t emotionally set up to have it…so my system would sabotage my happiness by losing feelings. VERY long story short, I worked with my therapist and pushed myself past those 2 weeks. I stayed with him and dealt with what was happening beneath the surface. I can’t even begin to tell you how hard this was. I had to work with EVERY story, EVERY lie, EVERY distortion I had about love….and after about 3 months, all of a sudden, one day I walked into Edward’s house, just like normal…and all of a sudden I had butterflies…I LIKED HIM! My heart opened up to him. I FINALLY was able to appreciate the connection he was offering me. I raised my upper limit and was able to receive more happiness in my life. We didn’t last of course, but I will tell you that I was a completely different person after Edward. My taste for those “bad boys” completely shifted and no longer was attractive to me. You can see this concept everywhere you look….people wanting one thing, but they choose the opposite. Someone wanting to really lose weight, yet they keep eating cookies and ice cream. Your guy wanting to have a connected relationship, yet he chooses an addict. People wanting to have more money, yet they spend money on things they don’t need. Pushing through the upper limit is so hard. People keep thinking that “If I just do better next time, I get what I want.” But that never happens UNTIL they face the anchors…the low self-esteem created by childhood trauma. The anchors are full of beliefs like “I’m not enough. I’m not lovable. Love is unsafe. I can’t trust love. I can’t trust life. There’s something wrong with me. I don’t deserve. I don’t trust happiness.” These anchors are INCREDIBLY strong and when we start to get what we actually want, these anchors, these low self-esteem beliefs end up getting triggered and taking over and limit how happy we are allowed to be.
I normally teach this concept in a webinar with diagrams and other concepts to help explain it. Hopefully this makes sense. It’s hard to write this out! But hopefully, you will understand more about why he is not available for you…not in the way you want.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Karen,
This is great stuff! I appreciate you for hanging in there with me, even though I’m triggering some of your defenses. Well done for telling me!
I realize now that I wasn’t clear. Everything I am coaching you about is you getting clear about the kind of ROMANTIC partner he would be. I’m making efforts to help you realize that he is not set up for something like what you want long term and to let go THAT idea with him. As friends, it sounds like he is quite capable of that. The reality is…male and female friends are always limited. They can only be friends to a certain point…there is a limit on the emotional vulnerabilities and bonding because it’s VERY easy for one or both to start to have romantic feelings, the closer you get, which is why I’m guessing he disappears sometimes. It helps keeps things in check so to speak. I know you say you would be totally fine just being friends and I get it. AND…you still have this part of you wanting more, so it’s THAT part of you that I am working with and trying to keep you grounded in the kind of man you would choose for a romantic experience. I know he is very different than your previous experiences AND he is the same in that he is not emotionally available, so you would be choosing another VERY difficult romantic experience. But as a friend, it sounds like you both are bonding well and have a healthy respect for each other which is great!
In a sense we have already started unpacking the baggage. Now we just need to throw it in the dumpster and let it go so it doesn’t get repacked. Yes! Throw it in the dumpster! This is the part where it’s not so easy. Talking it out, reading books, wanting to throw it in the dumpster…it’s just not enough though. Maybe some things can be more easily thrown in the dumpster, but the deeper more rooted stuff requires professional help. Healing is sooooo incredibly tricky and you would be surprised how much people don’t actually want to let go of their stuff. They do at first, of course, but when it comes to the actual moment of letting it go, they discover they would rather hold onto their anger or resentment or their pain and it’s quite a process to get them to forgive and release it. It’s a very deep journey and one that is meant to be navigated with someone who has a lot of experience with deeper level work. If you ever feel like diving deeper in your patterns and choices and letting go of the past, I work with a coach is FANTASTIC! She is the most brilliant expert I have ever worked with (and I’ve worked with many). She is tough though. She is not for everyone, as most people are not willing to go that deep, but for those who are ready for that journey, she is an incredible guide! Just let me know and I’ll send you her contact info.
I think that the fact he DIDN’T get drunk because he did have someone to talk it out with, proves he CAN change and is willing to put in the effort. Of course people can change! You and I are looking at this from very different perspectives. What he is doing is behavior management/modification. It’s managing the decision, BUT as you saw…he was able to NOT make the decision to get drunk because of an outside source…you. The odds of him getting drunk without you having been available are pretty high. So him not drinking is a very fragile concept. He NEEDS help to not drink instead of being able to manage that urge all on his own. The urge is still very strong in him, so it’s just a symptom that he hasn’t learned how to deal with stress in a healthy, higher functioning way. He can learn though! He has to first decide he wants to FACE the pain, so he doesn’t want to run away by drinking and then he has to have a skillset in order to work through the pain. This is where an expert is able to come in and help OR he can simply research online. There are a GAZILLION books and online programs that teach people different ways to manage stress.
Again as far as getting more friends…#1 I don’t like crowds. They overwhelm me. Who said anything about crowds? There are a TON of small group outings and social gatherings. Wanna go on a hike? A group of 3-4 people will meetup for that. Wanna go to a movie? Meetup with a few others and go for coffee after. Wanna learn how to paint? or create a ceramic bowl? Meetup with a small group and take a class together. Wanna learn how to salsa or swing? Sign up for a class with your new friends. I’m not talking about heading out into big crowds and trying to find connection that way. That’s intimidating and not very fun for most people. Check out meetup.com. That’s the only platform I can think of off the top of my head right now. I do know there are similar platforms you can find as well where you can join groups who have common interests as you.
The lover giver: I’m not sure if you may have misunderstood what he meant here. You said that he admitted to always over giving – hence he has a co-dependent way of moving through relationships. This is a perfect example: She also has bad history with drugs and he is very much against drug use. He says one thing and does another. He doesn’t have integrity within himself. He breaks his own standards because he is so deeply craving connection, that he will find someone who will let him try and “rescue” her. He is trying to be that “good guy” at the expense of himself. This is co-dependence. He is meeting the needs of his partner, at the expense of himself – in order to feel valuable…and that starts from day one simply by choosing someone who doesn’t meet up to what he really wants. Does this make more sense? He will definitely struggle being with someone who doesn’t NEED him to “fix” her. If he actually allowed himself to feel something and open up to a woman romantically who was put together, higher functioning, and knew how to take care of herself…he wouldn’t know what to do. He would sabotage that connection all over the place – having no clue why or what is really going on beneath the surface that would make him be that way. He NEEDS to find a woman lower functioning than him so he can feel like the hero. Again…I doubt he has any awareness of this. It sounds like he finally has been in enough pain, that he is going to actively choose to approach relationships differently. This is great! Hopefully he follows through on that!
I did put myself out there for some self esteem boosting this summer. I did a Boudior shoot just for myself. This is sooooo fantastic! I LOVE LOVE LOVE that you did this! It’s something I’ve always wanted to experience as well and I’m sure at some point the opportunity will come across my path when it’s right. How did this experience help you?
I am the listener even if I don’t want to be. I know I am very approachable, that is part of my problem. This is also you being co-dependent. You are listening FOR someone even when you don’t want to and it sounds like a strong problem. Man..this is a tough one. I had that challenge my entire life. People have always come to me for advice and because I was such a good listener…then they would disappear. It didn’t take long to realize that I wasn’t REALLY making friends. I was being used…and the other people were not even conscious of it, so I couldn’t blame them for it. But then….I learned what my “winning formula was.” This is the formula we ALL create in order for us to be liked and fit in. For me, and it sounds like you have a similar flavor of this…I knew I could be liked and sought after by being the listener…by asking them questions and giving the other person the space to be validated and listened to…because most people don’t get to have that experience in their lives. Most people are sooooo starved to be seen and known on deeper levels and I was quite gifted at providing that experience for them. But then, I would always walk away still feeling quite anonymous and empty. It was my greatest gift I could offer to others, yet it was my weakest point in building a true connection. It wasn’t until about 3 years that I completely shifted. I had been working on this issue for decades and slowly got better at it, but 3 years ago, I changed…at the very core. I ended up letting go of 4 friends who had sporadically been in my life for over 20 years. They were relationships where I listened, they talk and they barely knew me. And since then, I have not let anyone in who doesn’t have curiosity about me and who doesn’t create space for ME to talk and they listen. My winning formula finally changed :). SO I want to encourage you to give yourself and your voice more value. Each time you listen to someone when you don’t want to, you are betraying yourself. You are ignoring your needs and wants and making THEM more important than you. This is a great place to start to work on in order to help you find that “balance.” Of course there are going to be moments where you listen and it’s not where you want to be, but in general and overall, this pattern needs to shift in order for you to allow yourself to exist more in your life.
I like being with who I want to be with. I am more content to watch cheesy romance movies by myself which I have done a lot of. Of course you do! Everyone feels that way. I get the whole cheesy romance movies – I’ve done that a lot…hence my subscription to Hallmark :). Just be careful and be aware that it’s a very easy way to lose yourself in the movies and getting your needs met through movies, instead of getting yourself out there and practicing a new way to exist within connection. I know I have very much fallen into that trap.
Again, I was not and am not looking for a relationship. I would like for this to be one but it’s ok if it’s not Do you see how you have 2 sides to yourself here? These 2 sentences say the exact opposite. You don’t want anything serious yet you would like to have a serious relationship with him. You need to get clear here. I’m curious why you don’t want a relationship. It sounds like everything you want to experience would occur under that umbrella of a relationship. Why would you close the door to that? I understand you would like a relationship with him…but if you can have something with him, why not make it a possibility to have it with someone else? Why not be open to the possibility of another guy coming along and catching your attention and creating a wonderful, respectful, safe place for you to be yourself? If you don’t want a relationship and you don’t feel ready for one, then why allow yourself to want something more with this guy? Do you see how you have 2 parts of yourself that contradicting each other?
Let’s definitely keep talking about this! I’m sure there are more things that you need to clarify to help me understand what you are saying and feeling. I want to make sure that you are feeling like my guidance applies to you accurately.
Heidi
Hi Armand,
Welcome! You have quite the story. I can see why you have some confusion and not sure how to move forward with this. Well done for reaching out and asking for some guidance! You took a big risk sharing your story here and that just tells me that your desire to learn and grow is greater than any fear you have. This is a GREAT quality…not letting your fear run your life.
There is one thing I want to bring up first, that can be a GREAT help for you in any relationship. It’s an extremely tough concept and not something a lot of people abide by, because it’s hard. Your feelings are NOT the facts. What I mean by that is anytime you are triggered into hurt and pain, your mind creates stories about what happened. For example “He should have been there for me when I had to deal with that tragedy” or “I can’t trust him. I cannot open my heart to a guy that I don’t feel like I can rely on” or “He made me feel ignored and insignificant.” These short stories are NOT the facts…they are just your perception of what happened. If I had gone through the same exact situation with him, I would create a different story about it. The stories we end up creating are linked to feelings and pre-existing stories from our past. So you got REALLY hurt…to the point of crying…. because you felt he was being dismissive and rude. This is a pretty big reaction to have, which just tells me he hit a sensitive spot of yours. In your life growing up, did you feel dismissed? Did you feel like you didn’t matter? Did you feel like anonymous at all?
Whenever we are triggered, it’s a sign of something we buried from our past and the current situation is activating it. So whatever it is that you end up feeling, whatever stories your mind immediately creates, it’s NOT the facts…it’s only your perspective. One analogy I like to use is imagine you are sitting at a table with 4 different people. There is a beautiful bouquet of flowers in the middle of the table inside of an artful vase. If I were to ask each of you to give me a description of the flowers in front of you, I would get 4 different answers, right? Each person is seeing a different side of the vase. Is anybody wrong? Nope. Is everyone right? Yep. Our perspectives are the lens that we see life through and has been designed by our experiences in the past. Relationships are our GREATEST teachers, as they show us where we have unresolved hurts from our past. For example, you still were feeling hurt by his lack of support for you through the tragedy, even though he apologized. You are not able to let it go. You are not able to forgive him and his humanness. Is this because of him? No. It’s because how he treated you triggered some strong feelings that live in your subconscious from your past. If you did not have anything buried, you would be able to easily let it go and move on.
My point in telling you all of this is to teach you that relationships are our teachers NOT meant to be our caretakers. You have a mindset where you are making HIM responsible for how you are feeling. While he is human and going to make mistakes that cause you to hurt, your hurt exists TO THE LEVEL IT DOES because you have baggage that is being activated. For example, if you felt he was dismissive and rude during your birthday, a simple “Hey…I’m not sure what’s going on right now, but I am feeling like I’m being pushed aside right now. What’s going on? This isn’t like you.” This is the adult way to handle it. But because you cried – which is a strong reaction – it’s letting you know that what he did in that moment, was activating an entire network of pain that has lived in you for YEARS saying “I don’t matter.” The idea is, when we end up having strong reactions, it’s an opportunity to learn what lives in those networks. It’s a moment where we get to learn about ourselves. What most people do, and like what you did, you relied on HIM to fix this for you, when in reality – it’s NOT his fault that you felt the level of pain that you did. It’s the cause of many moments and many people before he even met you….yet you are putting ALL those feelings onto him to fix. Most people take this approach because they don’t know any better AND it definitely is the easy way out. I will tell you that this approach will slowly wear away at the relationship and eventually become quite toxic. It’s an approach where people blame each other and that never lasts.
Does this make sense? This is a pretty big concept and it’s hard to share it through this platform. I usually teach this in a webinar where I can show diagrams and walk people through the concept step by step. Let me know your thoughts on this.
I don’t know if closing the chapter and keeping my distance was the right call or if listening to those social media dating coaches led me astray. Should I reach out, or let it go entirely? Part of me wonders if I could have done things differently, and I feel foolish if I’m the only one feeling this way. If this means putting my pride aside, I’m willing. Okay, let’s break this down a bit. First of all, there is no such thing as “the right call” or the “wrong call.” Every moment, every situation that happens, every decision that is made, whether it produces positive or negative results…is ALWAYS the perfect choice. Why? Because every moment, whether positive or negative, has lessons for us. Every moment is an opportunity to learn about ourselves, the other person, and most of all – learning about what works and doesn’t work for us. I know what I know today because of all the “wrong” decisions I made. Many times, we learn about what we need and want, by making decisions that hurt. For example, your guy wanted to break up and he made that decision. That decision is helping him know what he really wants or doesn’t want through the absence of you in his life. Isn’t that good information for him to know? So I want to invite you into a different kind of mindset that is more fluid. You are coming across as having a strong black and white, right and wrong type of approach to life. Is this accurate? With love, it’s MANY different shades and is meant to be circular, linear, multi-layered and absolutely will activate every fear, every insecurity, every lie you believe about yourself, every pain you have ever stored…relationships will definitely activate the very worst in you and it will activate the very best in you. If you work with having the mindset that ALL OF IT is a gift…ALL OF IT is helpful in learning about yourself, the there is no right and wrong. I know for me, it was all the failures and mishaps and upsets that caused me to go deep inside and explore what got activated. Now…I have an incredible skillset and ability to handle stress. I am incredibly good at relationships and love. I am so thankful for all those times I was rejected, all those moments where the guy completely obliterated my heart, all those experiences where something was said or done that activated a world of pain in me. I would never have known all the crap was in there, unless someone else pushed the button. So again…relationships are fluid. It’s a complete waste of energy and time to go down the road of “What if I had done this differently” etc. You will NEVER have that answer – what I will tell you is that even IF you had chosen differently or acted differently, you still would have hit a road block…you still would have been hurt…you still would have to deal with him facing his fears…these roadblocks we end up facing in relationships are there no matter what we do. These roadblocks ALWAYS get activated sooner or later and no matter the path we take. So let it go. Rest easy. You have your roadblocks, he has his…and relationships are about facing those in each other…sometimes we can get through them together and sometimes not. It really depends on how willing both people are to learning, growing, and facing their fears and hurts in a skilled, conscious way.
I asked my friends and family for advice—my male friend said he seems unsure about the breakup and needs to figure out what he wants, my mother thinks I was being stubborn, and my cousin wonders if he found someone else. Let’s talk about this. This actually made me smile because this is the perfect example of everyone having a piece of the truth while looking at the same situation…just like the analogy I used with the flowers in the middle of the table. Your male friend is absolutely correct. Your guy doesn’t know what he wants. And sometimes, the best way to figure out what you want is to just make a decision and let everything else go. Once a decision is made…all kinds of information comes up that is very important to have. So your guy is absolutely struggling. You are valuable to him, there is no doubt about that. BUT…he also is facing a lot in his life and he is also dealing with a lack of trust and safety. He is afraid of love. He is afraid of being close. You being in his life pushed into his fear….which is a good thing! He needs to face it. Your mom is correct in that you are being stubborn. I wouldn’t use that word, but instead I would say that you are afraid as well – and that is coming across as stubborn. You are afraid of being hurt – just like him. For you, it shows up as a BIG WALL – black and white – “Once I’m gone, I’m gone” kind of thinking. This is more fear causing you to operate this way. And your cousin might be correct. Being that his ex has shown up a few times, it’s possible he is considering her again. Who knows! If this is true, it has nothing to do with you and everything to do with him NOT facing his fears and pressing the “hard” button.
In the end, it’s up to you what you want to do. There is no right or wrong. This is about you making decisions, fumbling around, making a mess, fixing things etc….all things we do in relationships – and figuring out that no matter what you decide – YOU WILL BE OKAY!!! No matter the outcome…YOU WILL BE OKAY!!! This is what resilience is. Someone who lives in fear about trying to always make the “right” decisions, is someone who doesn’t trust themselves and someone who is letting fear get in the way of living life. Someone who trusts themselves and is resilient says “I got this. No matter what happens, no matter the hurt I end up feeling, I KNOW I am resourceful. I KNOW I can figure out how to get to the other side. I KNOW I will figure out how to heal and move forward. I got this.”
You are stronger than you think. Give yourself more credit. You have a lot of learning to do about love and relationships, so just go learn and let go of the outcome. I know it’s scary and hard…but if you ever want to any good in relationship and support a healthy, high functioning love…you gotta do what’s scary and hard and find out that you can handle it.
Heidi
