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Oh my goodness! There is so much wonderful stuff to talk about! I, of course, am not going to disregard your first message. Your feelings and thoughts matter, even if you were not your “normal” self. ALL of you matters and is worth listening to!!!!
The thing about it is my coaches just tell me to do the breathing, or counting, or what-not, and if I am being honest, when I try that I tend to get even more frustrated and the anger just builds, it doesn’t work for me, it makes things worse. Okay! This is good to know! There are soooooo many other techniques out there, so at least you know what doesn’t work for you. That’s always a good start!
I have, in the past, been willing to give love to people who have not earned it. This being said, I personally, at my age, it seems ridiculous, have no idea how long is long enough or how long is too long to wait to make the choice to love someone, at least to love someone the way I do. Do we make the choice regularly along the way as we choose to do things for the other person or do we make the choice once? Love IS a choice and it isn’t. There absolutely are choice points along any relationship where you choose to continue to feed the love or you choose to stop feeding it and allow it to shift into something different. However, if love were 100% a choice, then we each would get to choose who we love and don’t love and that simply is not how it works. There have been PLENTY of great guys or friends in my past that I WANTED to connect with and love, but I simply just didn’t feel inspired. And of course there are those I didn’t want to “love” but I did anyways. So love is both a choice combined with a force we have no control over – and that force could have a lot of different purposes, meanings, origins etc. and is undefinable and indescribable and uncontrollable. Does this make sense?
So, when someone purposefully chooses to hurt you, they do not love you in that moment, but then, they beg you to stay because they “love you so much” or whatever, would it be appropriate to say, “well, you didn’t love me then, you chose not to love me then.” Love has MANY shapes and sizes. Someone can love you and hate you all at the same time. When someone is purposefully hurting you, they are in their wounded / young self throwing a tantrum and causing harm. When their adult energy is back in the driver’s seat, they can feel connected to that love again. There are many types of love – depending on the type of relationship it is. So, it’s not so black and white is it? It’s completely circular, multidirectional, and is completely different depending on the people interacting with it. It’s undefinable.
I still choose to love him, but not in the same way I choose to love the person I am with. The thing about him and I is, the feelings were never there, the feelings of attraction, so I always thought I was never “in love” with him. Could this be the case? People typically define “in love” as being a much deeper version of love and connection. I personally define it as a type of love someone feels safe and secure within. There is deep trust, there is deep safety and there is deep comfort. If that does not exist, then being “in love” is not possible. That’s MY definition though. Like I previously said, everyone feels love and “in love” differently, but typically “in love” is deeper. So yes, according to my take on it, it sounds like you loved him, but you were not “in love.”
Anyway, I did finally get an opening to ask him about his healing journey, and he says faith and time, he believes God can heal his pain. I told him, I 100% believe that, but I also know that if he doesn’t 100% believe that it won’t happen and having 100% faith without any doubt or fear is very hard, so it might benefit him to look for other ways of helping himself heal. He said he tried a therapist and it didn’t work. Anyway, we did talk for a bit and he did say that he understood what I was saying, so I’m not sure where he’s going to go with that conversation.
This is a tough one, because his belief prevents him from truly knowing himself and that will limit his ability to be deeply connected in a relationship. He is not understanding his reactions, his walls, his fears, his behaviors, and his beliefs around love. Fundamentally, how you approach stress and the challenges of your life are different enough that it really can cause a big disconnect between the both of you down the road. Although you have that same belief that God can heal anything, it didn’t stop you from getting help. It hasn’t stopped you from learning about yourself. It hasn’t stopped you from reading books. It hasn’t stopped you from being here and getting a different perspective and learning how to access more of your potential? To me, that IS a pathway that God provides for healing, but he is completely negating that and thinking that healing is just going to happen without him putting in the work. Of course, it absolutely can, but that doesn’t serve him. He doesn’t learn anything about himself by sitting around and waiting for time and God to heal. His belief is stopping him from being in true relationship with himself and others – and that’s the fundamental problem here. He may believe God and time can heal him, but all that sounds like to me is running away from really facing himself – getting to know himself – and actively healing vs. sitting around waiting for the pain to go away. He tried a therapist once and it didn’t work. So what! Keep looking. It’s like going to a restaurant and having Chinese food that was cheap and mass produced and then saying ALL Chinese food is horrible! If he really wanted to heal and do the work, then he would keep looking for help. So my educated guess is….eventually over time, you will hit a BIG wall that he is not willing to work through. We ALL have those BIG walls, but what makes a relationship work are 2 people who are willing to work through those internal walls – and with this guy’s current belief structure, he is NOT that kind of person.
I know this sounds bad, but I personally don’t want to waste my time in a relationship that is not going to be worth putting my time into in the long-run. I know you say take it day by day, but I just keep coming back to the past and all the time I spent trying to get someone to love me, I don’t want to do that anymore, I would rather be alone. I am just getting so tired of this relationship stuff. It is too hard, and I am not good at it. How about you look at relationships a little different. Instead of trying to get someone to love you, how about looking at the pursuit of love as a teacher. Each person you interact with will mirror back to you where you are not loving yourself. That’s how I view it. Connecting deeply with someone is just a piece of the pie, not the whole pie. The biggest piece of the pie is developing and strengthening self love.
What if I’m actually valuing myself enough to speak up and show him who I really am, that I have my own feelings and I am my own self? That’s kind of a bit cool to think about. YES YES YES!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
This world instills this doubt in us, this fear that’s so hard to shake, it marks us, and without having that true faith, the faith that makes miracles happen, that fear and doubt can cause us to hold back and miss so much. Yes, faith can help AND there are plenty of miracles that have happened for people that don’t have faith. Yes, fear and doubt can absolutely hold us back and cause us to miss so much AND God is so much more than that and is not limited by our fears and doubts. Fear and doubt is just part of the human experience. Having a TON of it or having very little, does not limit God’s ability to help us heal. I believe we can heal from anything, no matter our faith or condition, however – whether we get to heal or not is truly a mystery. I have seen people heal who do ALL the right things…they have faith, they have optimal nutrition, they have therapists, they have all kinds of healing modalities – and I have seen people NOT heal with all those things too. So to me, there is no specific formula for healing. I have beliefs as to why this is, but in the end, who knows! I’m not God and I’m not other people to know what is going on deep within them. It’s between them and God and that’s it.
Heidi
Hello Nafsika!
I am sooooo so sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s so awful to love someone and feel that in return, only to have them completely disconnect and say they don’t have the feelings to keep moving forward. It’s awful. Of course you feel rejected and of course you completely confused, especially since nothing “bad” ever happened. There is nothing to blame this breakup on.
I’m so sorry to say this, but there is something else happening here. This is just an educated guess of course, as I do not know him and I do not know his history. Usually, when someone disconnects out of the blue, with no specific reason, it’s 1 of 2 reasons. They are involved with someone else or they are terrified to get close – and they don’t even know it.
Let’s go with scenario #2: I’m wondering if he is just terrified to fall in love. I know this sounds strange, but being happy and in love is a trigger for shut down for a lot of people. Most people do NOT trust feeling happy for extended periods of time, because they did not grow up in a safe environment that allowed them to feel safe and happy. I don’t know what his relationship with his parents was like growing up or what his past romantic relationships were like, but something is definitely “off” here. A little red flag came up that as soon as he broke up with his ex, he was reaching out to you for a date. I’m wondering if he is always in a relationship and as soon as he ends it, he finds someone else. Do you have any idea?
It’s also a little red flag that after being together for 7 months, that there were no problems. Usually by 7 months, you are learning more about each other and hitting “speed bumps” where there are mini arguments, you start to find where some of the struggles are and you start to discover things you don’t really like about each other. You describe everything as “perfect” and that makes me think that there wasn’t a lot of honest feelings being shared – no irritations being expressed, no arguments, no challenges…is this accurate?
If it’s true that his feelings shut off, that typically is a sign that his system (subconscious) does NOT feel safe to fall in love and go deeper with someone – it has nothing to do with you. This is sadly not uncommon, but most people hardly understand themselves and they just follow how they feel. I know this happened to me several times when I was younger. Things were going sooooo well and all of a sudden, my feelings would shut off. I knew enough to understand what was happening, but it took several years of therapy and healing to help myself feel more safe to fall in love and allow myself to feel happy and STAY happy. Most people can feel happy for a period of time, but long term happiness is a VERY different thing. His system is most likely NOT set up to be happy for a long time. Meaning, deep down, he has A LOT of fear about feeling happy…deep down, he has A LOT of fear about falling in love….deep down, he DOES NOT feel safe to open up deeply and be emotionally intimate with a woman. Remember, it’s DEEP in his system, so he will not be connected to any of this. That fear triggers his system into “protect” mode and so his feelings will shut off. I watched this happen in myself too and there was nothing I could do about it in the moment. All I could do was keep connecting to the fear I was carrying with my therapist and clear it. Along the way, I left many guys heartbroken.
If this is what is happening for him, there is nothing you can do about it. His deep fear will ALWAYS win. He will never get very close with any woman. He will always keep them at a distance.
I know how heartbroken you feel. It’s not about you. This is about HIS fear controlling him and he doesn’t even know it. Most don’t. And he can’t help it. It IS how he feels and like anyone, we follow how we feel unless we understand ourselves on a deeper level. No matter what you say or do, it’s not going to change what lives deep within him. He is not as happy as you think. He is not emotionally available. He is not someone you can create a loving, open, growing relationship with. Yes, he is avoidant mixed with anxious.
In the end though…the “why” does not matter. This is all a guess. The ONLY thing you know is that he has broken trust and safety in a BIG way. For him to bail because he doesn’t have feelings anymore is enough for you to know you cannot trust him. You cannot trust his feelings. You cannot trust what he says. You cannot trust that he is solid and consistent. And when these things are missing, a relationship will never work long term. He is not the person you thought he was. You are seeing more of his shadow side. The reality is, he follows how he feels instead of fighting against his feelings and that means that he would not be a good partner when things get rough. What is one day you had a child together and that child ended up in the hospital. His stress response would be to shut down and run away. He would NOT be a partner to go through life with when things are challenging because he is anxious avoidant….people like ARE NOT good partners. They leave you feeling VERY alone. This relationship DOES NOT have what it takes to survive challenges. It’s better you know this now. I know it hurts like crazy and I’m so sorry for that.
Thoughts on all of this?
Heidi
Hi Adina!
Thank you for sharing more.
So do you feel clear about having sex now? It must have been quite challenging for BOTH of you to deal with your guilt about having sex for so many years. How did your partner feel about it? What were his thoughts and feelings about the past year and not being intimate?
As to your questions…
1. I know birthdays are tough. I do suggest NOT to contact him. Remember, he has chosen to go in a different direction and that means he NEEDS to feel his life without you in it. He NEEDS to feel your absence so he can feel the full weight of his choice. It was not appropriate for him to contact you about his taxes. I know I’m taking a bit of a hardline here. I’m a firm believe that when someone breaks up, that doesn’t mean they can continue to reach out to their ex. It was not a very nice thing for him to do to reach out to you and use you for your knowledge, when he has broken your heart. He was only thinking about himself and not caring about the impact it would have on you or how it would make you feel. I’m also guessing he reached out for your help because he is missing you and even though the contact was only friendly, he still got a big dose of you. So moving forward, I suggest NOT helping him with anything. He has made his choice and that means truly sitting in that choice WITHOUT you in it. However, if you want to stay connected, you get to do that too. There is no right or wrong choice here…just different paths. You want to make sure that whatever you DO choose, that it aligns with what you are wanting to accomplish. I know you want him back and there is no guarantee that doing no contact for a while will produce that result. There is no guarantee that staying connected and available to him will bring him back either. That is why I suggest to put the focus on yourself. He has made a very hurtful choice. You are dealing with a broken heart. I know you want him back and that may or may not happen. You do not have control over that. But what you DO have control over is your healing. You DO have control with moving forward in your life. And that means that the choices you make need to support YOU directly and NOT this idea of getting him back. So moving on and focusing on your healing is THE path. Does that mean you can’t get back together? Absolutely not. It just means that you are going to respect his choice and work towards healing your heartbreak. If he comes back to you at some point and says “I miss you, I want to be with you etc.” then you will deal with that in the moment. If all you focus on is getting him back, you are spending your time NOT healing, NOT growing, NOT moving forward. You are choosing to stay stuck on an idea that may never happen. Does this make sense?2. What do you want to date for? You have a broken heart. Any guy you go on a date with will be a rebound. Is that really what you want to do? Tell me more about this.
As far as him not wanting to be married…that is a HUGE red flag. He is living in fear. That fear is sooooooo big that it’s created this massive wall that no woman will ever get beyond. No wonder he is breaking it off with you. He has kept you at arms length for a long time and he went as deep as he possibly could go with you. It has nothing to do with “marriage” and more to do with how much he gives his heart away. He gave you all he had. He went as deep as his walls will allow. So when he hit that barrier, one of the easiest things to do is to just start all over. So now he is involved with a woman at the very surface. She has no idea who he is and that means the “pressure” of growth and going deeper is now off the table. His system can now relax and not feel threatened. He would have done this to ANY woman. This has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the amount of fear he is carrying around about love and intimacy. And I highly doubt he is aware of any of this about himself.
Thoughts on this?
Heidi
Good to hear from you!
Maybe it’s scary to ask him about what he is doing to heal. A lot of people actually “think” about things a lot and try to understand what is happening by reading books or watching videos, but that is NOT healing. Most people don’t understand you have to go much deeper than that for healing to occur. We ALL want it to be as easy as reading or learning something. Believe me I get it. It’s actually where most people stay stuck. They try to educate themselves out of pain. They believe that if they just could understand or learn, that somehow that will fix their fears or hurt, but all it is, is the very first step in a long journey they are terrified to take, so they end up reading another book. LOL. I’ve done that sooooo many times!
As far as you not working through triggers very well, most people are not taught. I was hoping your coach or hypnotherapist would have equipped you with a skillset of how to work with yourself when you are triggered. Unfortunately, it’s one of the biggest downfalls of this industry. They don’t teach skills nor equip their clients with how to handle triggers in the moment. “this too shall pass” is definitely a thought that most people operate under. I wish that were true. I mean…it does pass eventually in the sense the pain will lessen or even go away, but it just gets buried until the next time. And the next time it gets activated, it will be even stronger.
Here is a 2 part podcast that I recently listened to that was FANTASTIC!!! I rarely say that about the self help industry, because most experts I come across, have BIG holes missing in their teachings, but this woman was SPOT ON! She completely understands and knows the core root of issues and how to work with them. Maybe you will sign up for her program! I think you might resonate with her approach. And what I LOVE LOVE LOVE about what she teaches in part 2…are the SKILLS needed to regulate your nervous system in a trigger….so she offers a plan and an approach about how to take care of yourself. And it’s stuff you can easily pass onto your kids.
Part 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/366y73CWYd8bgDxdRhxhtp?si=VCipzGOxR8uOfu1mQmiELg
Part 2: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6a0R5vGXL0s0v1n7FVYTSa?si=KZ9EDRecQcmH4BJj0KlpkAHope this helps!
Heidi
Hi Adina,
I just thought I would check in and see if you had any feelings about what I shared or anymore questions. Let me know! I’d love to work through this with you!
Heidi
Hello Adina!
Welcome! I am deeply sorry you are having to go through this. Feeling powerless as you watch the one you love disconnect from you and connect with someone else is very painful and confusing.
I’m not sure there is a way to gain his attention again. From what you are telling me, he may just need to head in a different direction. But let’s see what we can do to help you understand the deeper layers of what is REALLY happening and some next steps you can take.
I have a few questions.
1. What are his reasons for never wanting to get married?
2. What was happening in your relationship that the sex stopped for the past year?
3. You only wanted to get married for religious reasons? There are no other reasons? You feel completely peaceful and happy now to never get married?I’m guessing that his attentions going towards this other woman have more to do with his need to switch things up than it does being married to you. She is a shiny, new energy and I’m sure has awakened a lot of his senses. You both have been together for so long, that there are many things that can easily go “stale” if the relationship doesn’t continue to grow and expand. So this other woman is catching his attention and it feels good to him. He will have a serious wake up call one day when the reality hits about who she is too. They are still in the honeymoon phase which is full of a bunch of illusions. He also is in his golden years and I know that people in that phase of their life think A LOT about death. Who were they in their life? What have they accomplished? What is their legacy? What have they NOT done? There is a lot of life review happening in this phase and it can cause someone to make some pretty radical decisions. There may be an aspect to this other woman making him feel younger and have more vitality – which again will fade once the honeymoon period is over…if they last that long.
I’m not sure he would want to come back to you, even if you don’t need to get married. At least not right now. He may need to try on this other woman for a while to realize what he gave up in having you by his side. He may not. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the whole marriage thing is probably not the core issue here. It’s whatever is happening within him…and I doubt he even understands the deeper layers of why he is doing what he is doing. He is being lead by his feelings without understanding where they are coming from and why they are here. He may just need to go on a journey to learn the hard way.
What I do want to suggest is to disconnect completely. He will never know what he is missing in you, if you are constantly reaching out. He needs to feel the ABSENCE of you completely to know what you really mean to him. So I do suggest to find a way to disconnect completely. I know how painful that is, but it’s the ONLY way for him to feel the full weight of his choices.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Thanks for sharing this!
He did have a great reaction!! It’s good for you to voice your experience and for him to learn what is ineffective for you. I love how he didn’t get defensive. He accepted your feelings and is learning from them. Yay!!!
So what is he doing to “heal?” He obviously is aware he is messy and “broken” which is great. I’m wondering what he is actually doing about it though. Time does not heal. Time allows for feelings to get buried so people think they are healed because they don’t feel the hurt anymore, but in actuality, all the feelings are still there – just deeper below the surface. You know this though. You are at least here learning and asking for a different perspective to help you navigate this. What is he doing to help himself?
I’m also curious….how do you work through a trigger? What do you do to help yourself get to the other side of it in a healthy way?
It makes sense that you would share that you are more broken than he thinks. You were trying to comfort him. One of the most powerful ways you can help him is to talk to his higher/best self. So in that situation, you could say something like “Yes, you are messy and broken. We all are. But you know what? I believe you have everything within you to get through this. You are intelligent, you are strong, you are aware and you have been through much worse than what is happening right now and you are still hear, taking a risk in getting to know me – and that tells me you have courage even though you are scared…..” Reminding someone of their best self when they are struggling, is what can help them connect faster than ever to the truth and the part of them that will help them get through whatever challenge they are facing.
Heidi
Hello! Great to hear from you! Let’s talk about a few things here…
So, when those reactions hurt me it’s easier to choke it back, let time pass, and then move onto the next thing. This is your pattern Lisa. This is how you are used to coping around your family, your ex etc. How about working on this pattern? Your voice matters. Your experiences matter…even if it is coming from a wound. You simply say something like, “Yikes. What you said has put me a bit on the defensive.” or “You know, what you are saying right now is actually no effective. It hurts. I know that is not your intention, so how about a redo?”
so I know his reactions hurting me are not intentional. It doesn’t matter whether or not it’s intentional. How is he supposed to know what doesn’t work for you unless you teach him? He cannot become better at supporting you or become a better partner until you are honest with the times he is ineffective. And like I said before, it’s super easy to just say “I know you don’t mean to cause me hurt at all…I’m a bit sensitive in this area so the best way to say something like this me is…..” BE HIS TEACHER!!!! And in turn, you are role modeling to HIM what it looks like to be authentic, honest, and communicate hurt feelings in a healthy way….which hopefully he will learn how to do by following your lead. Men tend to learn best by watching their women.
I did tell him tonight in a text that I am more broken than he realizes. What does this mean exactly? We are all broken and there will always be things to “fix” until our last breath. I’m wondering what you were hoping to accomplish by telling him this, because it’s a low self-esteem statement. You are downplaying how wonderful you are – broken pieces and all. Are you trying to prepare him for something somehow? Were you trying to show him you are not as great as he thinks? What was going on with this statement?
He’s gone back to making me feel like I can’t say or do certain things, just when I started feeling comfortable with him. Okay, so it sounds like this is a real side to him….meaning it’s a side to him that is part of who he is and is a coping mechanism somehow. What EXACTLY does he say or do that makes you feel this way?
Heidi
Great to hear from you Lori!
Congrats on the new contract! I love that you are excited about what you get to do with it! Finding joy in the work you do in the world is sooooo so important!
I’m glad your business coach taught you about “right” and “wrong” not being real. Smart guy!!! I like to reframe those words into “more effective” and “less effective” instead of right and wrong. Even in the least effective choices we make (or “wrong” choices) they are still effective because we are learning and growing – hopefully. Rephrasing it this way takes away the toxic energy of judgment. Right and wrong are judgment words, so more effective and less effective allows for ALL choices to be effective and helps us look for the good in everything we choose.
It sounds like your relationship is progressing beautifully and you both are learning a lot. Fantastic! So far, it’s been a great experience for both of you and that is so beautiful and powerful, isn’t it?
You have worked through so much very quickly about this whole situation. Well done! I hope he is able to truly see and know the value you bring into his life.
Heidi
Hey there! No worries about your response. I get it! Plus, it’s super tough being on your phone. I NEVER respond from my phone. There is no way I would ever have the patience to offer a thorough response on my phone.
He’s scared of being hurt again. I’m not sure if I should just back off or just stay where I am. Of course he is. We ALL are. And there are MANY layers where fear lives. So even if you do get past this first level of fear, he will reach another one and will be faced again with choosing to move forward or not. You will as well. It’s normal and to be expected.
I’m kind of in a place where I’ll be fine if he decides he needs time and I need to back off and I’ll be fine if he decides he wants to move forward. It seems to me that either way I’ll be okay. I want to invite you into saying this with more truth. First, do you really want to be “fine?” It’s a word we use that is actually quite dense and full of meaning and emotion – usually more dense and heavy emotion. How about you instead say “If he decides to separate, it will hurt AND I will be okay. If he decides to move forward, I will be excited for many more adventures.” Would this be more accurate?
I might have been a little too forthcoming with him, he kind of just disappeared. At first I was a little worried and then I was like whatever ends up happening, oh well. I’ve got to be authentically me. I’m curious…what does this mean? What did you say that might have caused him to disconnect?
It seems like you both are having a lot of deeper conversations. I wouldn’t be surprised considering your personality (I’m the same way), but I also want to make sure that you both are having light, fun conversations too. Yes? No?
Things have gotten better, but I honestly might have screwed them up with him. It’s okay though if I did, he’s probably not ready for a relationship yet anyway. He is not ready for a relationship. This is something you have known since the beginning. However, I wouldn’t say you screwed anything up. I want to point out the languaging you are using, as it is revealing more of the subconscious stories that are running in your system. What does this particular story tell you about yourself? The more you can become super sensitive to how you explain things and what they mean beneath the surface, the more skilled you will be at recognizing it in others – and THAT is a super strong skill to have, as it will save you a TON of time, it will help you more intelligently know who to allow into your world and help you see many of the hidden, subtle signs they are throwing out about what lives in their subconscious.
And also, I want to invite you into viewing life a bit differently. I personally like to view ALL my decisions as moments of a long adventure. There is no such thing as a “wrong” or “right” decision….just a decision that will lead me onto the next parts of my adventure – both positive and negative. So instead of doubting your choice to go back to school, 100% embrace it. You made the decision and so for TODAY, it’s still what you are deciding to do…until it isn’t. That’s it. I went to grad school and got all the way to end and never completed my comp exam and thesis…for many reasons. So I quit. I’ve never done anything like that in my life. It still irks me a bit, because I would love to have a graduate degree and completed the whole thing, but even if you look at the core of that….it’s only because of my ego. Not having my MA would not change a darn thing in my life, except that I would establish more creditability in the eyes of strangers. The core truth is, with or without my MA, I am exactly where I’m supposed to be. So TRUST yourself. That doubt you carry impacts you in MANY ways you don’t even realize. Pay more attention to it. When it creeps in, it’s a moment for you to practice re-aligning with your choice, no matter what it is.
Heidi
So I’m curious…when you say that he is wanting to be back on his healing journey, what does that mean exactly? What kinds of things is he actively doing to help himself “heal.” Have you ever asked him what “healing” means to him? What does he think healing is? That might be an interesting conversation.
The way you put things has been immensely helpful for me. I can’t even begin to tell you how much that makes my heart sing. You are empowered again, which is exactly the place I wanted to guide you back to. No matter the decisions you make, coming from a grounded and empowered place will produce the highest outcomes. I’m proud of you! You obviously have done a lot of work prior to our conversation that would allow you to align with yourself so quickly.
The strength we build up around what marks us is up to us, because if we keep opening the wound, not only does it get bigger, but the bark won’t grow around it as easily, and it takes more to strengthen the trunk in that particular spot. Beautiful analogy!!! I did not know that about trees!
In asking myself if it’s better for me that he is in my life, for now the answer is yes, it is better for me.In asking myself would I be better without him, the answer is no, because right now he makes me stronger. Fantastic! You sound very clear about this. As long as your answer continues to be an INSTANT yes, with NO hesitation, then you are good to go!
I have been through so much, and I was never really taught how to be a mom, housewife, wife, or any of that, so I made mistakes, but that’s okay because there was a lesson in everything. My heart goes out to you. I know the strength that is required to face what your system buried, in order to protect you. You did it though! I love that you worked with all of it and are continuing to move forward. It’s very obvious to me, that you have an internal strength that only comes from facing our greatest fears. It’s a forever journey, BUT now you know you are fully capable of facing anything that is thrown your way. That is not something most people can say.Yes! I LOVE LOVE LOVE human design and enneagram especially. I know the MBTI as well, but I find the other modalities to be much more expansive and much more layered and dynamic, involving aspects that cannot be determined by filling out a questionnaire.
My first love, he’s still in there, just pretty deep. Maybe these are just memories in my heart, I am not sure. Yes! Exactly! Here my tree analogy….romantic love (or any type of love for that matter) is like a tree. You are the tree and you will grow a branch and it will alive, bearing fruits and leaves. Then…the nutrient supply is cut off from that branch from things end. The branch never falls off and separates from you, it’s still there, it’s just not “alive” in the romantic sense where it is producing life, but it is ALWAYS a part of you. It’s just playing a different role in your life while another branch grows and flourishes.
Like I said, even when my intuition is telling me something, I still want to see the good in people and I do tend to positive project. I am leaning so much more on following my instincts. Here is a little trick of the trade I always use. It has NEVER once failed me. It’s about pattern recognition. Once is just once. 2x is a weak pattern. 3x is a strong pattern. Once it hits the “strong pattern” category, KNOW that it’s something that is built into their system. It will most likely ALWAYS be a pattern you will have to deal with, unless someone REALLY digs in deep and works on shifting whatever is causing that pattern. This has gotten me out of MANY messes, because I – like you – tend to give a lot of leeway for behavior. This allows me to be much more objective to help me counter any emotions that might be keeping me in my blind spot. Hope this helps! Let me know if you need me to explain this further!
Holy smokes! Now that is a serious story! I am soooooo so sorry that you had to go through all of that with your family. You really have been through it! Of course your trust in people was ruined. You have come sooooo far and you have kept fighting. Wowowowow! So many people would have given up and become completely angry and bitter, but you didn’t. You are choosing to love again. You are choosing to have new experiences. You are choosing to grow and learn. That says so much about you!!! Thank you for sharing all of that. I know it was just the tip of the iceberg, but it definitely brought me a greater understanding.
Heidi
Lol! Oh goodness. I absolutely have done that several times where I write and then I submit and it didn’t go through. It’s sooooo frustrating and just takes the wind out of your sails! Such a bummer!
Thank you for letting me know you are still here.
It’s making more sense as to why you 2 are taking a journey together. You are a match in many ways. Thank you for sharing all of that.
Please know I am not insinuating that he will cheat. I was just speaking generally in that every person is capable of things they never think they would be capable of. The potential is always there, so I like to encourage people to stay grounded in reality. Instead of saying “He has my trust that he won’t cheat” you say “I trust that no matter the decisions he makes in his life, even if they break me and sabotage the relationship, I TRUST MYSELF.” Keep bringing your trust back to yourself instead of “trusting” that he is going to behave or not behave in specific ways for the health of the relationship. That is an illusion and NOT where trust belongs.
Thoughts on this?
Looking forward to more of your thoughts!
Heidi
Hi Lori! Okay….let’s keep deep diving!!!
Let’s start with why I chose my boyfriend. I am not entirely sure, it was something about him, but probably one of the biggest things was that he respected me. Of all the people I went out on dates with, he was honest about who he was and where he was in his life, and when I was very clear that I wanted to build a friendship before jumping into bed, he didn’t blink. Let’s talk about this a bit. I’m just going to share some very subtle nuances that I am seeing in what you are saying. I am pointing them out only because I know you are wanting to know and understand yourself. The most important aspect to know about yourself is your subconscious. Your subconscious has a very very subtle language to it and 99% of people miss it in themselves and others. I am super familiar with the language of the subconscious. My training began as a child actually…I somehow was able to sense, or pay attention to the subtleties of those around me – but for the sole purpose of trying to figure out what to expect so I could brace myself for what was coming. I didn’t understand the survival mechanisms I was building at the time, but it became a game for me. It still is to this day actually. LOL. So to begin, it’s important to understand that OVER 80% of what we think, feel, decide, behave comes from the subconscious. So…if you just pay attention to your choices, your words, your actions, you can start to see the deeper reasoning behind them and make the subconscious information come to the surface. So…you said one of the biggest reasons you chose him was because he respected you. This is your subconscious talking to you. This is a story you have built into your cells that you are operating from. Here’s the thing Lisa. Respect needs to be a given, NOT a reason to choose someone. It’s a quality that should be required and not a quality to be choosing. Because you grew up with NOT being respected, a story in your child mind got created and so when a guy respects you, it’s a SUPER BIG DEAL. But like I said before, if every single guy was respectful towards you, if you grew up being respected, then you would not choose this guy because he was respectful. Does this make sense? So it’s your little girl energy influencing this choice, not your adult. So your subconscious is exposing a story that lives within your system and hasn’t been resolved.
A healthy reason to choose someone is for their UNIQUE characteristics….the qualities that make them, them. Respectful is a quality that MANY people embody, so him being respectful is NOT unique. It may feel like that to you personally, but I can tell you I have been on hundreds and hundreds of dates over 3 decades. The majority of the guys were respectful. BUT…because this is an area of scarcity for you, to come across a guy who is treating you with respect is a BIG deal. And that is absolutely normal. Your job is just to notice yourself. Notice the deeper reasons behind your choices. Notice the stories you have running in your system. Notice what is driving you. This is how you get to know what lives in the depths of your being. It’s fascinating!!! And rule #1…NO JUDGMENT. Just noticing. Make sense?
he never once disrespected my values, beliefs, views, time, or body. I think overall, that was what put me in the headspace to enter into a committed relationship with him. Again, these are not reasons to want to be with someone in a committed relationship. You are experiencing just the baseline here as to how you should be treated. He definitely checks those boxes, but if that is all it takes for you to offer the sacred space of your time and energy and heart, then we need to take a look at your standards. Think about this…if you were in the desert and without water for a week and someone came to you and offered you a glass of water, you would absolutely take it without question. You would be in sooooooo much gratitude for him showing up and offering you kindness. Who wouldn’t drink that water? The problem is, you are dying of thirst that you are not of right mind to actually look at the water. Because if you stopped and looked, you would see there is mold in it…and it will eventually make you sick. I’m not saying this current guy is offering you moldy water. I’m just explaining the concept that when we are in scarcity of certain aspects in our lives because we grew up without it…we become STARVING for those specific things we missed and desperately needed for healthy development. So the goal here is….to do enough healing on ourselves and learn how to source ourselves with what we didn’t get growing up – and then we aren’t dying for some water….someone can offer you water, but instead of taking it right away, you have healthy discernment. And Lori, know that even if you know you are drinking toxic water, it doesn’t mean you still won’t drink it. Lord knows I have stepped into a gazillion situations knowing exactly what I was stepping into and how it would turn out – it was just showing me how much I needed that water – and how I needed to keep working to find my own source of water so I wouldn’t make those choices anymore. Like I have already said…it’s a lifelong journey. So while I am pointing this out, I hope you are having compassion for yourself as well. When you discover these nuances, know they are there because your little girls needed attention that she never got and it’s your job today, to make sure you become the parent that you needed all along. YOU parenting her, YOU respecting her, YOU having compassion for her, YOU protecting her…that is your water. That is how you nourish yourself. Does this make sense? It’s a pretty complicated topic, so hopefully I am explaining it well.
One thing I have learned about him is that he is just as loyal as me, so that part believe it or not worried me a bit. This might sound crazy, but shortly after his heart attack I really wondered if we were in the right place, what if because both of us are as loyal as the other we get stuck, what if neither one of use wants to let go if we have to let go? I don’t mean for this to sound nutty, but my brain literally never stops. I did end up asking him about this and we ended up having a very good conversation about it. You are a seeker. You want to be as awake and aware as possible, so you HAVE to ask questions and explore all the options. It’s part of how you stay safe and avoid making the same mistakes. There is nothing crazy about it. Believe me, my brain never turns off either, but the more I did the deep healing work, the more that part calmed down for me.
As far as being loyal, I just want to pop your bubble here. Here is the highest level of truth. Anyone can do or be anything. With the exact right mixture of something, he could absolutely cheat….and so could you. No one is beyond infidelity, abuse, or even something like murder. Every single one of us carries darkness within us. It’s just part of being human. I say this because I am insanely loyal and have studies love and relationships for over 3 decades. Have I cheated? Yep. I was shocked! Never in a gazillion years did I ever think I was capable, but because I was ignoring some of my needs, mixed with a few other things, I cheated. It was a huge wake up call for me and I’m glad it happened. It helped me first of all understand that I was capable. And that meant that I cannot afford to ignore what I was ignoring. So…it’s important to understand that the darkness can absolutely be activated, even in the best of us and cause us to do things we are completely against….things entirely out of our character. It’s an important truth to embrace about people because you are creating a sense of safety with him that is not a guarantee, but you are believing it is. The healthiest way to approach safety and trust is within yourself. So of course you want to find someone who has integrity AND you can build trust and safety with him over time, BUT ultimately you also know that can be broken in an instant, but that’s okay because you have trust and safety within yourself. Trust in yourself means “No matter what he says or does, I will be okay. I am resilient. I am resourceful. I know how to heal. I know how to become more because of the pain. I know how to find the gifts and beauty of any painful moment. I will be okay.” Having this type of unshakable trust with yourself is true resilience. This is what I have developed for myself, so that when I go out into the world, people get to be themselves – mistakes and all – and although their choices will hurt sometimes – I know how to heal, through and through.
It’s important to operate from the highest level of truths about humanity, so that you don’t create expectations around people that are not healthy. To expect that he will never cheat or that you will never cheat, is not a realistic expectation. Instead you look for someone who has high integrity in all areas of their life so you set yourself up for success and then drop the expectation. Life is just going to unfold however it does and you are strong enough to trust that you are being held and supported and taken care of no matter what happens. Does this make sense?
AS you write me more and I reflect more, I see more and I understand more. I spent the night with my boyfriend last night and I can’t explain it, but he’s different. He touched me in more loving ways, and I had to tell him (especially after everything I have been reading, I guess I learned it’s important to tell him) that I really liked it when he touched me like that. I am not talking sexually here when I am talking about touching, but instead of just giving me buddy taps on my leg or arm, he was just so much more sensual with his touch, and his kisses had so much more feeling to them, and massively increased in volume. I love hearing this. It’s so nourishing to your beautiful heart and I love that you are getting to experience this!!! YEEEES!!!! MORE PLEASE!!! 🙂
I wish I could help him, but it’s something he will have to deal with on his own. That being said, I am going to stand by him as he heals. I’m going to pop a bubble here again. He is NOT healing through and through. Unless he does some type of active work on himself – working with an expert – he is not healing the core wounding. Just like the analogy I used before, his skin will heal and close up the wound, so the pain is less, but if he doesn’t debris his wound, the infection will show up eventually. He IS healing on a certain level, but it’s only skin deep type of healing and you will see this over time. The more he falls in love and bonds to you, the more you will see the infections seeping out in his choices and behaviors. Again, I’m not saying at all you shouldn’t give this a chance. I’m just encouraging you to move forward with OPEN EYES and know what you are saying yes to. All the subconscious signals he is giving you, from everything you have explained, he absolutely has some big infections going on. And there is nothing wrong with that. I have emotional infections too. The difference is, I am aware of them and I have treatment protocols when they get activated. He does not and that makes him limited in his ability to be emotionally available to anyone. You will keep hitting walls with this guy. You are getting past one right now as you are experiencing right now, but there are much deeper and thicker walls that will you never get past. He has to do the deeper work himself first.
Even though at first she only had supervised visits when she asked me to come over to help her with something three things pushed me to do so. 1) the bible says to honor your mother and your father. 2) I feared if I didn’t show up the next time I did she would be very mad at me. 3) I still wanted her to love me, so bad. Of course! This is very normal and to be expected. You were getting love from her anywhere you could get it. And I do know that verse in the Bible, but it can also be interpreted differently. What does it actually mean to “honor?” That can be many different things and maybe something to explore for the purposes of working with your younger self. I absolutely honor my parents, but absolutely will never be in relationship with my father again. How do I honor him? I forgave him. I send him love energetically. I pray for him. To me…I am honoring him in the highest possible way. Personally, it just doesn’t make sense to me to “honor” a parent while dishonoring myself. That is not what the message was teaching. So I love and honor myself AND honor my father by letting go of the negate, dark emotions and to me…that is the highest possible interpretation. Just something to think about and consider.
I was so lost, and I really needed to find who I was and why I was so willing to forgive, move on, be there for the people I loved, even when I knew they wouldn’t be there for me. Do you still feel this way?
I blamed myself for the failed marriage for many many years, if not slightly still. Would you be willing to take responsibility but remove the energy of “blame” from the equation? Yes, you were part of the reason, but when you add the energy of blame to the equation, you are adding a toxic energy – judgment. There is no one to blame here. Did you do the best you could? Yep. So did he. AND…the limitations that lived within both of you were big enough and destructive enough that it was time to end. It’s truly that simple. No blame. Just normal, human woundedness playing its part.
I, myself, do not have high emotional intelligence, but I have extremely good intuition and about 97.8% of the time my intuition is right, even though I originally tried to explain away the feeling, it always ends up being right, so I am leaning into trusting my intuition more. Whaaaaaat??? What do you think emotional intelligence is??? You absolutely are on the higher end of emotional intelligence and continuing to expand that. Your intuition is absolutely part of that!
This time my intuition is telling me that he is a good guy and that I should be patient and stay, but I am trying to talk myself out of that. I know there is a lot of past trauma for me and I didn’t want that to be the driving factor in my decision, because if it was I would choose “leave” every time probably. I want to be strong enough to build something that will last the rest of my life or his Time to pop another bubble. DO NOT…I repeat DO NOT build something for the rest of your life. This is on the same level of illusion that he is loyal. Because you are trying to build a “forever” type of connection, it’s putting a TON of pressure on him and the relationship. There is no such thing as forever. Yes, it could be something you and him end up experiencing, but even if you do EVERYTHING right, it DOES NOT guarantee anything. Let that idea go. Instead, focus on TODAY. Is he right for you today? Yes or no? THAT IS IT!!! Love is a DAILY CHOICE. I have known couples who have been together for 30 years and decided to divorce, because the connection ran its course. I have known couples together for 50 years and would not wish that type of connection on anyone because it’s just dead. Your job, ALWAYS, is keep yourself nourished, balanced, joyful, empowered, and healthy. This guy might be an amazing partner to support that for a short period of time, many years, or until the very end. None of that matters. What matters is the you choose someone who lights you up, supports your growth, sees the light and dark within you and is able to accept it and it’s a relationship you truly love being in TODAY. And also, we ALL have trauma always. The idea is to find someone who knows how to work through their own traumas, so they don’t end up leaking it all over you and vice versa. You are going to get triggered and deeply hurt and so is he. It’s inevitable the longer you are together. Those are beautiful moments of growth AS LONG AS you BOTH BOTH BOTH have the skillset to work those triggers within. You cannot be the only one who has the skillset and interest in knowing yourself and expect that to carry the relationship long term. I mean I have seen women do that…but I will also tell you that the kind of love you want to experience will NEVER come to fruition if you are the only one on that journey.
I didn’t really realize how deep it went, and I had no idea it would turn into a conversation like this, but I have gotten so much out of it, and I am more than appreciative of you! Wow! This truly fed my heart. Thank you for saying this!!! I absolutely love coming across someone who wants to go deep, because that is my specialty. Every blue moon someone like you will show up on this forum, so you are absolutely and unequivocally a breath of fresh air for me!
because something is said, and it’s easy to go, “please don’t do that, Charlie used to do that, and it really bothers me.” But, overall, I try not to dwell on things from the past relationships. I have always said that each man I meet is his own person and what the previous men have done to me have nothing to do with him. I personally start every relationship with commitment, trust, and respect. This is absolutely a beautiful idea! The reality is though, it’s not possible. We ALL are constantly experiencing others with the lens that was created from our past. So you even saying, Please don’t do that because Charlie used to do that…is you overlaying your past into the present moment. I also want to suggest a different way to say. When you say “don’t do this because Charlie used to do this and bothers me” it actually is not teaching your current guy anything about you. Keep Charlie out of this, because he has nothing to do with your reaction. Charlie could do the same exact thing to another woman and it wouldn’t phase her, so this reaction you are having is specific to you. So instead, teach your current guy about you. You say “Hey listen…I just wanted to let you know that when you do _____________________it causes me to feel like _________________ because ________________” So instead of telling him what he is NOT allowed to do (which is mothering) you instead inform him how his choice or behavior affects you and then HIM make the choice to continue doing it or not. This empowers him vs. just doing what you tell him to do.
Here is a real example. “So Steven….I need to let you know that when make fun of me, I end up shutting down and wanting to disconnect. I was teased a lot as a kid in grade school, so I admit that this is an area I am extra sensitive. I know you don’t want me to shut down and pull away, so I thought I’d let you know how to best avoid that.” Do you see how this empowers the man to make a change by activating his understanding and compassion and care for you? When you simply say “don’t do this” it has no meaning and you again, you are treating him like you would a child – giving him choice by equipping him with information on which choice he wants to make – that is treating him like an adult. Does this make sense?
I know he still holds a space in his heart for her, but being honest, don’t we all hold a space in our heart for previous relationships, whether it’s hurt, care, or possibly still love? I honestly just want to know if there is anything I should be doing differently to get his heart to open up more for me? But, then again, it seems to be happening naturally, so maybe I will just keep taking it day by day. No…we don’t hold space in our hearts from previous relationships…not in the way that your guy is doing. I absolutely have ZERO romantic feelings for my past boyfriends. Yes, I love and care for them, but in a friendly way – in a way that DOES NOT get in the way of any current experience I want to have. There is 100% complete closure so my heart is 100% available. As far as doing anything differently to “get his heart to open up more for me” is another subconscious pattern coming up. This is your little girl energy talking here. Your little girl is wanting to know how she has to behave or what she can do for her mom/boyfriend so she can get love. The higher level truth is absolutely NOTHING. If you just being yourself is not enough for this guy to open his heart to you, then that is on him, NOT YOU. I sure as heck DO NOT want to spend ANY of my time trying to get someone to open up to me. All that tells me is that he is carrying around A LOT of fear and that fear is controlling him and his level of comfort with vulnerability and connection. If you are experiencing that already, imagine what is next. Because what you are experiencing today is the least of the walls you will be facing with him. I know he is opening up as of this past week and that is fantastic! I’m not saying you need to cut this off. Again…all I am saying is for you to be realistic and walk into this with eyes OPEN. I think that you and this guy are on a journey together and there is great potential for a lot of learning and growing. I’m just trying to pop your fantasy bubbles and get you really grounded in truths and that will set you up with the most success moving forward – because you will be grounded more in reality vs. the “forever, loyal, respect” fantasy you have built from your subconscious.
I actually received help without negating it! YAYAYAYAYAYAYA! Tell me all about it! How did it feel? What was your reaction inside when you received the help?
So, narcissistic they might have been, but, they hid it long enough to gain my submission, until they didn’t. So looking back, are you able to see their narcissism? It’s pretty impossible to hide narcissism. It’s more about how well someone is able to pick up on the subtleties of the more nuanced versions of narcissism. So this is great practice for you. Looking back, what are some of the signs you may have missed early on, that would have told you they were narcissistic?
if I am willing to let him heal on his own, in his own time, would it be easier for him to without me? That I am not sure about This is not a question that serves you or helps you, because there is no way to know the answer. AND…here is another subconscious story leaking out. This is your co-dependent little girl again. You are asking about HIS well being. Is it better for HIM that I am in his life or not? Instead…you need to be asking….Is it better for ME that he is in my life or not. Let HIM decide for himself. You DO NOT need to caretake him. Again, you are mothering him. You take care of you and let him take care of him. If he wants or needs something different, that is HIS job to let you know and it’s not YOUR job to figure that out for him. So your subconscious co-dependent little girl is trying to find a way to be or not to be in order to make him as happy as possible…here again, the pattern your mom set up for you.
And I just want to say….I am sooo so sorry for what you had to survive. There is soooo much loss and rejection that filled every single day of growing up. I’m glad that your father eventually put his foot down. Even though so much damage had already been done, he still did it – which gave you the experience of your father fighting for you. That has more of an impact than you realize. There is a lot he needs to be forgiven for and at the very same time, he rescued you. It’s a very interesting mixture and one I have had to deal with as well. It’s an interesting internal dynamic for sure.
Heidi
Oh! By the way….I LOVE what you do for work. It sounds fabulous! I currently am creating my business to go online. I’ve studied online marketing etc. for over 2 decades from different experts over the years and it’s incredibly helpful. You are helping people make their dreams come true…you are helping people take what is within them, and bring it out into the world. That is such an important and incredibly impactful role you are playing. It’s perfect for you! I’m curious what the “pivot” is that got you excited to step back in.
And I love your business coach helping you connect to the co-dependent side of yourself that was leading you into some unhealthy patterns.
Here is how I define co-dependence: meeting the needs of others at the expense of yourself.
Narcissism: meeting the needs of yourself, at the expense of others.Do you see how co-dependents and narcissists actually make a really great match? As long as the co-dependent is willing to stay in that role, a relationship can actually work and be successful.
We all tend to have flavors of both and depending on the wounding, one way of functioning will tend to dominate. In my wounding, I was much more narcissistic. So in my healing journey, I needed to become more co-dependent. But when it came to romance, I would flip back and forth, depending on who I was interacting with. I don’t view either way of functioning as bad or wrong. In a balanced state, we need to have BOTH. It’s when either characteristic becomes out of balance as a way to function in the world, that it becomes more toxic and harmful to relationships.
Does this make sense? It sounds like in relationships, you tend towards co-dependence – having dated narcissists and having given away your valuable time and knowledge to those clients. But I’m guessing in other areas of your life, you are super strong and boundaried and do NOT negotiate away what needs to happen for you.
Heidi
