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Hi Vicki,
Yes, you get it. Him getting upset over nothing is exactly what I am talking about. It’s his system sending out “danger” signals that you are entering in the “no trespassing” zone. We all have one…even against ourselves – especially if you grow up with a parent who caused a lot of harm. That pain, the stories, the memories, the feelings all get locked away in the catacombs and to enter that zone means having to feel all of that again – and who wants that??? I have seen men who were in the special forces and facing death over and over and over again, NOT willing to go into that “no trespassing” zone within themselves…that’s how big the fear can be. It’s a rare person who is willing to go there. The reality is, if someone is not willing to go there themselves, there is no way anyone else is getting in. Alarms are set at the entrance of that place and anytime someone gets close, the sabotage “dogs” are let loose and wreak havoc in whatever way they can to keep that person away. It’s a VERY complicated system and again…few have the awareness. Your guy may be aware that you are “getting too close” but he has no clue what is really happening. All he knows is that he feels a certain way (and he can’t help it) and he has to follow how he feels, because that fear that inspires the sabotage is waaaaay too big. I used to be like that too. It took a TON of deep healing work to shift it, to where now I am more skilled, more aware, and I have people who can help me work with the fear when it comes up.
That’s how any of us are able to shift our patterns. You may be aware of your splits, but if you don’t directly work with that side of yourself that sabotages your well being and what you truly want, then you will be pulled back into that pattern of connecting with an emotionally unavailable man…whether it’s him or someone else.
He still says he’s not happy about the breakup and doesn’t want a relationship with anyone but I know he dates and I’m sure has sex probably as an ego boost, just like with me. I know he still cares, and still loved me when he ended it. He doesn’t have the ability to be happy. That emotional baggage he is carrying around will always keep him small, unhappy, and like an addict, looking for the next thing to try and make him feel happy. He is trying to feel better by using the outside world, like sex and women, to relieve him of the pain he carries. He is doing the very best he can, as he doesn’t know any better. And for most people, living a life like that is much less scary than facing what lives in those catacombs…at least that is the story they believe, because that is how our system sets it up to create a feelings of “safety.” It’s our system protecting us. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Vicki!
Welcome! Man, this is so tough to deal with, isn’t it? It hurts the heart and with someone who is so hot and cold, the heart feels good then breaks, then feels good, then breaks…rinse and repeat until you decide you’ve had enough.
You are asking a really great question. I’ll give you the general, core answer, but the details will vary depending on what the guy and what he dealing with.
The core answer is this: there is a strong enough part of them that is not ready to fully invest. Your guy is dealing with what is called a “split.” This is when there are 2 parts that are very strong, and they want different things – and whichever part is strongest in the moment, is who is in the driver’s seat. This is a symptom of someone carrying a lot of fear about something. One part is EXTREMELY fearful to fall in love, be vulnerable, be authentic, be in relationship with someone and allow themselves to be seen and known….and the other part WANTS all of that. So in some moments, he wants to deeply connect, but then the fear will kick in, shut off his emotions and make him want to disconnect. This is the general way that “splits” work. It’s not different than someone wanting to go sober and it will last for however long, then that other part kicks in and sabotages sobriety and they are back at it. Or someone wanting to lose weight and able to stick to a healthier eating plan, and then the other part kicks in and says “Nope…I want those carbs, I want to eat whatever I want, I want comfort food etc.” and the healthy eating goes out the window. We see this “split” all the time – people wanting one thing, but then making decisions that sabotage what they want. Let’s take you for example. You want a deep, meaningful, nourishing relationship, yes? You broke up, found yourself, but then you got pulled back into HIS pattern and lost yourself again. So that should help you understand how STRONG these 2 parts of ourselves are and how it’s an internal battle and whomever wins in the moment makes the decision (like that part of you that “gave in” to benefits with him, knowing it’s not what you really wanted.
He has the same dynamic going on within him. He has no control over those parts of himself, just you didn’t either. AND….most people have NO CLUE about these 2 sides operating within them. All they know is they feel one way and then they don’t. And most people just follow and make decisions by how they FEEL. Little does anyone know that their feelings are being driven by past wounds, negative stories around love and so on…which all lead back to one feeling….FEAR. And again, many would say they don’t feel fear – but the truth is, they are NOT connected to what is happening VERY DEEP within their nervous system and deep within their psyche where the fear lives. And when that fear gets strong enough, it will show up through sabotaging. He sabotages by disconnecting, you sabotaged yourself by saying yes to the benefits, another person who wants to spend more time with their kids, will end up taking an “important” phone call while in the middle of playtime, or someone wanting to lose weight will sneak cookies while in their car.
It all boils down to low self-esteem. The more someone sabotages, the more low self-esteem they have. When it comes to love, it is typically where people sabotage the most, because their is a lot of unprocessed pain from their past, living in their system – feeding the fear. Let’s say your guy grew up with an alcoholic mother – she was unpredictable, unstable, but said “I love you so much” all the time, while forgetting to buy groceries or pick him up from school. As a child, he will pair “I love you” with instability. So as he grows older and dates, he will get his heart broken and that will contribute to “love = pain.” But it’s tough because he DOES want to fall in love and feel that intimacy with someone, but that fear will ALWAYS stop that from happening…so he will get close, then pull away. Then he will get close, then pull away. Over and over and over again. If he is a big flirt, he may have a sex addiction or just get his self esteem by hooking women and then leaving them – which is a “revenge” type of pattern towards “women” who represent his mother – who would pull him in, love him, comfort him, then get drunk and forget about him….over and over and over. I don’t know what his childhood was like, but this is how “love” gets paired with pain and fear in the formative years. And when it goes unprocessed, it leads into adulthood and that fear and pain will CHOOSE who our partners are in life. And it takes some VERY aware and VERY emotionally intelligent to catch these patterns within themself. To this day, I still have some of these patterns, but because I am aware of them, I can catch them sooner than later and help myself.
Does this make sense?
Here are 2 GREAT podcasts that explain this concept really well. It will help you understand him, as well as yourself and why you chose to go back to him in the first place.
Here is part 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/366y73CWYd8bgDxdRhxhtp?si=IWmfAME0R2KaE8ANaiHoMA
Here is part 2: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6a0R5vGXL0s0v1n7FVYTSa?si=-JgCQaU6RwmFFEPnux4gPQHopefully I was able to bring some understanding. Let’s keep talking about this, because it is a VERY layered and dynamic thing that lives within all of us, and it’s important to understand. I know it won’t necessarily change the hurt you feel, but maybe it will help you not take it personally. He would do this to anyone. He is not emotionally set up to feel safe to bond, love, connect, and be vulnerable….and all of that was established in his formative years most likely.
Heidi
Hi Nafsika,
I understand your confusion. Men and women view and experience relationships in very different ways and that’s why it can be confusing. Let’s keep talking this through!
I need to mention here, that he told me he never had a “real” relationship, meaning all his relationships were long distant. And now I am thinking, maybe now where he has a normal situation he was afraid for it? This is another red flag. His pattern tells me that the long distance relationship is actually perfect for him. He gets to have his own time, his own life, and then still have a girlfriend that he doesn’t have to deal with on a daily basis, but instead on weekend trips and daily short connections. If he is not a very good communicator, long distance works great for that! I’d be willing to bet that if his last relationship of 4 years lived in the same space as him, like you do, they would not have lasted 4 years.
Also, he admitted and it was one topic he was working with his therapist, about communicating properly his thoughts. Communication is a tough one. Somehow along the way, he learned that it wasn’t safe to use his voice. Usually parents will teach that through reacting to their child’s feelings and needs in a way that doesn’t feel safe for the child. They might criticize, they might make fun of them, they might get angry, they might completely disregard their child’s feelings….who knows…but if it wasn’t his parents, then it came through other channels. This one can take quite a long time to develop. I’m wondering why he is so shut down – but it is a symptom of some pretty big fear.
Things changed, and if you find someone who you feel so good and 100% yourself I cannot really understand why he still choses not live it and let me go. I don’t know why he doesn’t have the feelings for you. Like I said before, it could be that he just doesn’t and he feels complete with his experiences with you, it could be that his system shut down because a relationship in person is too scary and too intimate for him to feel safe (not trusting love, not trusting a woman, not feeling safe to be emotionally vulnerable) – usually it’s one of these feelings and again – these are things that most people are NOT aware of that live deep inside their nervous system. And these kinds of feelings CONTROL EVERYTHING. They control how the person feels, what they decide, who they invest in, when to quit, when to stay….and if the person is not aware of these VERY SUBTLE deep feelings, then the person just follows how they feel and that’s it. It’s sad really, because it’s sabotage and they don’t know it and they can’t help how they feel. In order to shift something like that, they need to get to know themselves on a much deeper level and explore their own patterns….something most people don’t want to do, because it’s scary.
I know you asked a couple of times in the beginning about making sure he felt good about choosing to be with you. I have no doubt that he DID feel good and he was being honest. The thing is, when someone doesn’t understand or know their deep, subtle feelings, they will not know or understand that what they are feeling is not clear and their feelings are being driven by fear. Think about it Nafsika….he was in relationship for 4 years!!! That is a very long time. Do you really think that he was clear to hop into another relationship within a few months??? Absolutely not! I don’t care how unhappy they were, or that it was long distance, or that feelings went away long before the breakup. They were connected for 4 years and that takes some time to process. It takes time to heal. But he did not allow that for himself. He hopped right back into an experience with you, WITHOUT going through a normal, healthy grieving process. This is why rebounds never work. Eventually, they break because those grieving feelings that got buried, will eventually show up in the new relationship in ways that sabotage the current connection. He was NOT emotionally ready to hop into another experience with a new person and the fact that he did, tells you how much he runs from dealing with the hard emotions of life. He may have a therapist, but I am wondering how much his therapist is actually challenging him and taking him to the places inside of him that he doesn’t want to face. Some therapists are just great listeners and validators and allow the client to take the lead during sessions.
Now, he has to face the loss of his father. I too would not be surprised if he went home to be with his family. If that is his choice, I know your heart will break, but he is only doing what he feels is best for his heart.
I know the pain is awful. You WILL heal. It takes time and it takes grieving and it takes forgiving, and most of all, the fastest way to heal for YOU to close the door on your heart. You keep trying to figure out what went wrong and how you can fix it and that’s very normal. But it also will keep the pain alive and growing. You will never truly know what happened, because I don’t think he even understands it. So it’s going to have to be okay that you don’t have clear answers. You need to get into a space of acceptance for his choice, feel the pain of the loss and ending with him and close the door. You need to help your mind settle down by creating an ending vs. allowing it to loop over and over and over trying to make sense of it. That’s torture and definitely keeps the pain alive. So if you want to heal, it’s time to let this go. Let him be who he needs to be and accept that he is not interested in moving forward. He doesn’t feel how he needs to feel to keep this going and why that is, who knows. It’s just a bunch of educated guesses, and that is going to have to be enough.
I’m so sorry Nafsika. I know dating is so hard and finding someone you get to be 100% yourself with. You are going to have to trust that you will be okay. Being single can and is a really beautiful thing too! There is soooooo much to explore in life and within yourself when you don’t have to think about or consider someone else. There are many gifts waiting for you as you heal from this heartbreak – and that journey will begin for you once you accept his choice and accept that it doesn’t make sense and accept that it’s over and close the door. Until you close that door, healing will not be available to you.
Besides…even if he did come back and you got back together, do you REALLY think everything will be easy again? You will not trust him. You will always be wondering how he REALLY is feelings. You will have a part of you waiting for things to end, because despite what he said to you in the beginning, he changed. So this relationship would NOT be the same relationship. It would be very different and you would not feel as safe and open and vulnerable, because he broke the trust and safety. If he did this once, he absolutely can do it again. Is that what you want? To continually walk on eggshells wondering if his feelings will change again?
Heidi
Great to hear from you Nafsika!
Let’s keep talking about this!!!
I lean towards the 2nd case where he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. Although, he grew up in a very loving environment and he is very close with his family and they are all very connected. Therefore, the fact that he is afraid to show emotions because of his past/childhood I don’t think it’s the case. I would not dismiss this so easily. Loving families and close families have problems too. A lot of patterns get established within the family unit and loving, close families do not make up for the humanness and limitations that show up in close quarters for so many years. For example, the youngest sibling could become the “class clown” because they are wanting / needing more attention. The oldest could have resentment towards the parents because they are watching their younger siblings get to do and have things they were not allowed to do or have. Parents could have been more strict and not allowed for a lot of emotion. Who knows! What I DO know is family shapes us and so they definitely have contributed to this pattern of his.
And also, he had a 4 year long distance relationship where I am sure he had feelings otherwise he wouldn’t have gone into this. Why he cannot develop for me? You are assuming quite a bit here. Just because he was with her for 4 years, DOES NOT mean it was a healthy relationship. It DOES NOT mean he had strong feelings for her. It DOES NOT mean that the relationship was good. DO NOT compare! You are a completely different experience for him. Who he was with her, is different than who he is with you – you and him are a completely different mixture and what is important is that you stay focused on YOU and him and not who he was with someone else.
Also, he was doing therapy and I raised these topics and issue you mentioned above, if he is an avoidant and all this and he said I don’t think so and we discussed it with my therapist. Therefore, if it was the case his therapist would have identified it right and make him work on it. Who knows! I don’t know what kind of therapist he is working with or whether they are any good or not and who knows if your guy is being fully honest. Either way, something is amiss here.
That is so terrible about his dad. I’m glad you sent a message. You are correct. This is not the time to discuss your situation with him. Most likely, he will not have much to offer anyone since he will be filled with grief for a while.
I know it hurts to hear this, but I would agree with his message. It does seem to be a sort of “ending” kind of statement by saying “you will always hold a special place in my heart.” It does sound like he is clear about his decision. I am so sorry! I know this breaks your heart and I know this is so confusing for you.
Right now, what I suggest is to keep giving him space. Maybe send him something in the mail – something to offer your condolences and then leave it at that.
Thoughts? Let’s keep talking.
Heidi
Hi Lori,
Thank you for your update!!
Wow! I love you’s were exchanged! Things are going deeper. It sounds like you are having some good discussions and you are clear about wanting to move forward with him. I’m glad to hear he is open to exploring getting some expert help. I hope he follows through!
You might be right, he might not be set up right to offer the kind of long term experience that I want, but maybe he is, and maybe you are wrong. I am not wrong. An active addict is NOT emotionally available. An addict who has never gotten help, nor asked for it, and doesn’t have any accountability is NOT emotionally available. So me saying he is not set up for a long term successful relationship is based on who he is TODAY, not his potential. It’s dangerous to believe and invest in potential when it comes to relationships. Who he is TODAY is someone who has a volcano within him that he keeps subdued with alcohol and locking away his feelings. With high enough stressors, he will ALWAYS choose his substance over you. If he does get help, it’s going to take quite a while to really get to the core of the feelings he is hiding from and develop a new skillet and as you know….it’s a super messy process, especially with addiction as part of the journey. That’s why they tell recovering addicts NOT to get involved romantically for at least a year. He has never done any deep work Lori, so IF he actually follows through with this, and he finds someone who will push him into the places he is avoiding, there are a lot of storms ahead.
I know it feels like I am against this relationship. I see some major red flags here that tell me this relationship is not a long term healthy, nourishing, deepening kind of thing like you are wanting. Again, I’m just going off of who you are and who he is TODAY and not what “could be.” However, I completely understand your choice. I absolutely understand why you would want to fight for this. He is treating you in ways you have always wanted and you are seeing him in ways he probably has never experienced before. There are a lot of wonderful things happening right now and that would give anyone hope for the future! I trust the process Lori. I absolutely 100% trust that whatever you decide, you are exactly where you are meant to be, to learn what you need to learn. As a dating expert, I of course want to wave my hands and try and stop people from making choices that would cause them harm AND I have also learned that no matter what someone chooses…there are no mistakes, only lessons and experiences to expand each person. So have it Lori! You are obviously meant to take a journey with this guy and I trust that!
Please keep sharing and asking questions. I will not wave my red flag anymore, as I’ve said enough. You are an intelligent woman and you will deal with whatever comes up in the moment. You got this no matter what!
Heidi
Lori!!! Oh my goodness, I didn’t see your message until just now. I’m not sure how that happened, but I’m so sorry it’s taken me such a long to respond!
Thank you for sharing all of your updates. It’s quite a mixed bag isn’t it? Some really powerful and wonderful things and some REALLY BIG red flags. Let’s talk about it!
and I’m not sure I even need to hear it said, I’m okay with knowing it based on his actions and his body language. I’m really wondering if he is the type of person that isn’t very good at even knowing how he feels. YES YES YES!!!! YOU NEED TO HEAR IT SAID!!! I guarantee if you give it long enough, his body language and actions will NOT be enough. A person needs to hear it too. We all need BOTH words and actions. I know right now it’s not that big of a deal, but that’s only because you are still so new to each other. Eventually, you will notice the absence of his words…if he continues to hold his feelings close to his heart.
And a few days later she texted him and he didn’t answer so she sent him a middle finger emoji. I’m wondering if he has set some boundaries with her. I don’t blame her for getting upset as he has shifted and he is letting her know that. Which kind of goes along with the pattern he has shown you that he is not very verbal or communicative about how he feels. So pay attention to this, because how he is treating her is how he will treat you as well if his feelings change at all.
Am I starting to fall in love with him? Probably. Am I holding myself back? Probably. Am I willing to wait a bit to see what transpires? Yes. Am I willing to take it day by day? Probably not. My brain constantly goes, thinking about the past and the future, so day by day is a very hard concept for me. Am I able to stop falling? Definitely not, not as long as I’m spending time with him and I see, without a doubt, signs that he’s falling for me too (and they are there). Do I expect it to be easy? Definitely not. Anything worth having isn’t easy to obtain. Am I getting stronger and seeing my value? Yes, I can feel that, and he helps with it, he supports me and makes me feel like I can do anything that I put my mind to. Okay, there’s a lot to say here, but what I am going to reflect back to you is this…I know you want to fall in love and finally have that experience of a deep, intimate love with a man. I will be very blunt and say that this guy is quite limited in how deep he will be able to go with you. So…as wonderful as he is in MANY ways, he also is emotionally unavailable on a deeper level. You guys get to have great conversations, you get to feel supported by him, and you get to feel those beautiful feelings of attraction and bonding with him. He offers a lot of great things that feel amazing. AND….where his limitations exist, you WILL hit a wall. You WILL hit a place that he will not open up to you. You WILL get to a point where you will want more and he just won’t have it to offer you. I only say this because he is not someone who asks for help, has ANYONE holding him accountable to how he shows up, he is an alcoholic, he is emotionally closed off and none of those are deal breakers EXCEPT he won’t ask for help. He won’t submit himself to someone who would be able to help him process the baggage he is carrying. He wants to believe that God will just heal all of it. Now I know you are seeing some changes in him and I love that. I’m not saying he can’t change. What I’m saying is….he has a certain capacity for changing and shifting, but there ALWAYS is a wall that we ALL come to that if we want to go deeper and become more expansive, it means facing our greatest fears.
He is asking YOU to help him get sober. He needs to be asking professionals and NOT put you in that role of caretaker. You are his girlfriend, NOT his sober coach. A REAL sober coach would ask him to face the feelings he has that would trigger his need to drink and escape what he is feeling. So instead of facing the baggage that is being activated that is motivating him to drink, he is asking YOU to help him stop drinking. It’s a valiant effort, but one that does NOT have any sustainability.
I am not saying at all, that you should not be with this guy. You are on a path and the choice is ALWAYS yours about what you would like to experience. My job is to help you stay grounded in reality about what is on the path you are choosing. This guy is NOT set up emotionally to offer the kind of long term, deep, nourishing, supportive, emotionally available experience that you want and he has already shown this to you in many different ways. I know you are falling for him, but know you are falling for a guy who has limitations that will keep your relationship and love much smaller than your personal capacity…which in turn will require YOU to stay smaller to fit into what he is able to offer.
I know this is not what you want to hear. Your heart wants this and I know he feels really good in a lot of ways. I know that no matter what you choose, you will learn from it. I just don’t want to see you negotiate away your standards and the kind of love you truly want to experience, because he feels good to you right now. That is your wounding bonding to him, not your higher self.
Thoughts on this?
Heidi
Oh Amber! This is such a heartbreaking story. I am so so sorry you are having to go through this and I am so sad that he is choosing this toxic connection over a healthy, nourishing, and loving connection with you. It doesn’t make any sense does it?
I know this will be really hard to wrap your head around, but I’ll see if I can explain it in a way that will make sense. And even if it does make sense to you, it will not change the pain of the loss and your heartbreak.
As wonderful as your connection was, I am wondering how honest he was with you. It sounds like he has some pretty strong co-dependent tendencies and usually people like that are not very honest with their truest feelings – they typically are very agreeable and exist for the other person’s needs and rarely express their own.
I’m just making an educated guess here, so I could be completely wrong. Co-dependence is “meeting the needs of others at the expense of yourself” and narcissism is “meeting the needs of yourself at the expense of others.” Now both qualities are not “bad” inherently. They only become toxic when they are out of balance and both qualities exist on a spectrum. It sounds like his ex wife has strong narcissistic tendencies and he has strong co-dependent tendencies – that is actually a very common type of match because the narcissist expects to be served and the co-dependent lives their life to serve. The co-dependent – depending on how strong their tendencies are – has no clue who they are. They don’t know their own needs, they are constantly peace keepers, they agree with everything that other people say, they are very easy to get along with and people who are more narcissistic will LOVE that because they get to have their way all the time. They get to be the most important person in the room all the time.
So being that he is choosing his “family” over his happiness and well-being and even going back to someone who is critical, mean, and probably quite verbally abusive, that just tells me he has a lot of low self-esteem and being in that type of environment is what is most familiar and comfortable for him. Usually people who choose this type of design, grew up in the same type of environment. Even though he was with you for a while and experienced something different, it probably was quite uncomfortable for him (being a co-dependent, he never would have told you – IF he was aware of this). Here is why:
There is this thing called the “upper limit.” It’s the limit in which we each allow ourselves to be happy and feel good in our lives. What determines this limit is how much baggage we carry. So imagine a big bathtub that represents the capacity of happiness. When that bathtub gets full and is about to start overflowing, a person will usually sabotage their happiness, so some of the water drains out and doesn’t overflow. As long as that water stays at an appropriate level, there is no need for sabotaging. I know this sounds strange, but it’s a protective mechanism. For example, if you grew up experiencing a ton of abandonment and so you paired “love” with “abandonment,” then when you are older and start to date and fall in love, your system will start to feel threatened because that “love” is paired with pain. And that pairing lives deep in the subconscious and most people are not even aware of it. It’s so subtle! So every time you start to feel closer to man, and start to feel a deeper connection, you might pick a fight. You might start to feel less attracted to him. You might start to see the things that are “wrong” and magnify them and make them soooo big, that you need to break up. Your system is protecting you from further pain. We ALL have an upper limit. The only way to increase the size of our “bathtub” so we can hold more water, is to connect with the baggage, the pain, the stories we have around love, and to heal them. It’s not an easy road and expanding our upper limit is 100% uncomfortable….until we get to the other side of that pain.
So whatever is happening with your guy, has NOTHING to do with you. It has to do with the baggage he is carrying inside. There was a study done on elephants where they were chained up since birth. Eventually, they took the chains off, but the elephant never went outside the radius that those chains allowed. It’s a program and the same thing happens to us. Even though he got to experience great connection with you, his ex got BIG enough and caused enough harm that it activated his internal program to be the peace keeper at the expense of his well-being…no doubt something that was established by his parent/s. Did he grow up with alcoholics? Or narcissists? Or critical parents?
This is a tough one Amber, because as much as I would like to tell you how to get him back, it would not change what is happening inside of him. It would not change that his ex would get big enough again (because she knows it works) and he would go back. He is NOT set up internally to be happy. He can be happy for a period of time, but if enough starts to go wrong or if enough BIG negative energy comes at him, he will cower and become the peace keeper and do whatever is necessary to make that person/s calm down.
Here’s the thing Amber….even if you did get him back, he has broken trust. He is choosing misery with her instead of fighting for his own happiness with you. As wonderful as he is, this is a pretty big and serious quality that ruins relationships. Can it be changed? Of course…but it would take A LOT of work. He would need to work with someone who is skilled and can hold him accountable to setting boundaries, using his voice, and someone who knows how to work with this type of internal programming. It is not something that is a simple behavioral change. It is something that is deeply rooted in him and facing it is incredibly scary. Maybe he would be willing to do something like that. Although, as long as his choice is to be with his ex – he won’t get help because she has him chained up and will only let him get so far and he agrees to that.
He isn’t contacting you because it’s too painful. It’s too confusing, it’s too dangerous, and it shakes up the stability he needs to feel to maintain this very painful choice he has made. I have no doubt he is miserable. However, the good thing about that is, the misery will only grow and get worse and the beauty is that pain is a GREAT motivator. He may break at some point and not be able to handle the pain anymore and actually do something about it. He may want to come back to you, but just a warning, that will NOT fix anything. It will give him a reprieve, but it will NOT change the strong internal program that is running in his veins and eventually, he will sabotage his happiness again.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense. I’m sad to say that this is far from a simple fix. It’s quite complicated to understand and it definitely has nothing to do with you.
Does this make sense at all??
Heidi
Oh my goodness! There is so much wonderful stuff to talk about! I, of course, am not going to disregard your first message. Your feelings and thoughts matter, even if you were not your “normal” self. ALL of you matters and is worth listening to!!!!
The thing about it is my coaches just tell me to do the breathing, or counting, or what-not, and if I am being honest, when I try that I tend to get even more frustrated and the anger just builds, it doesn’t work for me, it makes things worse. Okay! This is good to know! There are soooooo many other techniques out there, so at least you know what doesn’t work for you. That’s always a good start!
I have, in the past, been willing to give love to people who have not earned it. This being said, I personally, at my age, it seems ridiculous, have no idea how long is long enough or how long is too long to wait to make the choice to love someone, at least to love someone the way I do. Do we make the choice regularly along the way as we choose to do things for the other person or do we make the choice once? Love IS a choice and it isn’t. There absolutely are choice points along any relationship where you choose to continue to feed the love or you choose to stop feeding it and allow it to shift into something different. However, if love were 100% a choice, then we each would get to choose who we love and don’t love and that simply is not how it works. There have been PLENTY of great guys or friends in my past that I WANTED to connect with and love, but I simply just didn’t feel inspired. And of course there are those I didn’t want to “love” but I did anyways. So love is both a choice combined with a force we have no control over – and that force could have a lot of different purposes, meanings, origins etc. and is undefinable and indescribable and uncontrollable. Does this make sense?
So, when someone purposefully chooses to hurt you, they do not love you in that moment, but then, they beg you to stay because they “love you so much” or whatever, would it be appropriate to say, “well, you didn’t love me then, you chose not to love me then.” Love has MANY shapes and sizes. Someone can love you and hate you all at the same time. When someone is purposefully hurting you, they are in their wounded / young self throwing a tantrum and causing harm. When their adult energy is back in the driver’s seat, they can feel connected to that love again. There are many types of love – depending on the type of relationship it is. So, it’s not so black and white is it? It’s completely circular, multidirectional, and is completely different depending on the people interacting with it. It’s undefinable.
I still choose to love him, but not in the same way I choose to love the person I am with. The thing about him and I is, the feelings were never there, the feelings of attraction, so I always thought I was never “in love” with him. Could this be the case? People typically define “in love” as being a much deeper version of love and connection. I personally define it as a type of love someone feels safe and secure within. There is deep trust, there is deep safety and there is deep comfort. If that does not exist, then being “in love” is not possible. That’s MY definition though. Like I previously said, everyone feels love and “in love” differently, but typically “in love” is deeper. So yes, according to my take on it, it sounds like you loved him, but you were not “in love.”
Anyway, I did finally get an opening to ask him about his healing journey, and he says faith and time, he believes God can heal his pain. I told him, I 100% believe that, but I also know that if he doesn’t 100% believe that it won’t happen and having 100% faith without any doubt or fear is very hard, so it might benefit him to look for other ways of helping himself heal. He said he tried a therapist and it didn’t work. Anyway, we did talk for a bit and he did say that he understood what I was saying, so I’m not sure where he’s going to go with that conversation.
This is a tough one, because his belief prevents him from truly knowing himself and that will limit his ability to be deeply connected in a relationship. He is not understanding his reactions, his walls, his fears, his behaviors, and his beliefs around love. Fundamentally, how you approach stress and the challenges of your life are different enough that it really can cause a big disconnect between the both of you down the road. Although you have that same belief that God can heal anything, it didn’t stop you from getting help. It hasn’t stopped you from learning about yourself. It hasn’t stopped you from reading books. It hasn’t stopped you from being here and getting a different perspective and learning how to access more of your potential? To me, that IS a pathway that God provides for healing, but he is completely negating that and thinking that healing is just going to happen without him putting in the work. Of course, it absolutely can, but that doesn’t serve him. He doesn’t learn anything about himself by sitting around and waiting for time and God to heal. His belief is stopping him from being in true relationship with himself and others – and that’s the fundamental problem here. He may believe God and time can heal him, but all that sounds like to me is running away from really facing himself – getting to know himself – and actively healing vs. sitting around waiting for the pain to go away. He tried a therapist once and it didn’t work. So what! Keep looking. It’s like going to a restaurant and having Chinese food that was cheap and mass produced and then saying ALL Chinese food is horrible! If he really wanted to heal and do the work, then he would keep looking for help. So my educated guess is….eventually over time, you will hit a BIG wall that he is not willing to work through. We ALL have those BIG walls, but what makes a relationship work are 2 people who are willing to work through those internal walls – and with this guy’s current belief structure, he is NOT that kind of person.
I know this sounds bad, but I personally don’t want to waste my time in a relationship that is not going to be worth putting my time into in the long-run. I know you say take it day by day, but I just keep coming back to the past and all the time I spent trying to get someone to love me, I don’t want to do that anymore, I would rather be alone. I am just getting so tired of this relationship stuff. It is too hard, and I am not good at it. How about you look at relationships a little different. Instead of trying to get someone to love you, how about looking at the pursuit of love as a teacher. Each person you interact with will mirror back to you where you are not loving yourself. That’s how I view it. Connecting deeply with someone is just a piece of the pie, not the whole pie. The biggest piece of the pie is developing and strengthening self love.
What if I’m actually valuing myself enough to speak up and show him who I really am, that I have my own feelings and I am my own self? That’s kind of a bit cool to think about. YES YES YES!!!! EXACTLY!!!!
This world instills this doubt in us, this fear that’s so hard to shake, it marks us, and without having that true faith, the faith that makes miracles happen, that fear and doubt can cause us to hold back and miss so much. Yes, faith can help AND there are plenty of miracles that have happened for people that don’t have faith. Yes, fear and doubt can absolutely hold us back and cause us to miss so much AND God is so much more than that and is not limited by our fears and doubts. Fear and doubt is just part of the human experience. Having a TON of it or having very little, does not limit God’s ability to help us heal. I believe we can heal from anything, no matter our faith or condition, however – whether we get to heal or not is truly a mystery. I have seen people heal who do ALL the right things…they have faith, they have optimal nutrition, they have therapists, they have all kinds of healing modalities – and I have seen people NOT heal with all those things too. So to me, there is no specific formula for healing. I have beliefs as to why this is, but in the end, who knows! I’m not God and I’m not other people to know what is going on deep within them. It’s between them and God and that’s it.
Heidi
Hello Nafsika!
I am sooooo so sorry you are having to deal with this. It’s so awful to love someone and feel that in return, only to have them completely disconnect and say they don’t have the feelings to keep moving forward. It’s awful. Of course you feel rejected and of course you completely confused, especially since nothing “bad” ever happened. There is nothing to blame this breakup on.
I’m so sorry to say this, but there is something else happening here. This is just an educated guess of course, as I do not know him and I do not know his history. Usually, when someone disconnects out of the blue, with no specific reason, it’s 1 of 2 reasons. They are involved with someone else or they are terrified to get close – and they don’t even know it.
Let’s go with scenario #2: I’m wondering if he is just terrified to fall in love. I know this sounds strange, but being happy and in love is a trigger for shut down for a lot of people. Most people do NOT trust feeling happy for extended periods of time, because they did not grow up in a safe environment that allowed them to feel safe and happy. I don’t know what his relationship with his parents was like growing up or what his past romantic relationships were like, but something is definitely “off” here. A little red flag came up that as soon as he broke up with his ex, he was reaching out to you for a date. I’m wondering if he is always in a relationship and as soon as he ends it, he finds someone else. Do you have any idea?
It’s also a little red flag that after being together for 7 months, that there were no problems. Usually by 7 months, you are learning more about each other and hitting “speed bumps” where there are mini arguments, you start to find where some of the struggles are and you start to discover things you don’t really like about each other. You describe everything as “perfect” and that makes me think that there wasn’t a lot of honest feelings being shared – no irritations being expressed, no arguments, no challenges…is this accurate?
If it’s true that his feelings shut off, that typically is a sign that his system (subconscious) does NOT feel safe to fall in love and go deeper with someone – it has nothing to do with you. This is sadly not uncommon, but most people hardly understand themselves and they just follow how they feel. I know this happened to me several times when I was younger. Things were going sooooo well and all of a sudden, my feelings would shut off. I knew enough to understand what was happening, but it took several years of therapy and healing to help myself feel more safe to fall in love and allow myself to feel happy and STAY happy. Most people can feel happy for a period of time, but long term happiness is a VERY different thing. His system is most likely NOT set up to be happy for a long time. Meaning, deep down, he has A LOT of fear about feeling happy…deep down, he has A LOT of fear about falling in love….deep down, he DOES NOT feel safe to open up deeply and be emotionally intimate with a woman. Remember, it’s DEEP in his system, so he will not be connected to any of this. That fear triggers his system into “protect” mode and so his feelings will shut off. I watched this happen in myself too and there was nothing I could do about it in the moment. All I could do was keep connecting to the fear I was carrying with my therapist and clear it. Along the way, I left many guys heartbroken.
If this is what is happening for him, there is nothing you can do about it. His deep fear will ALWAYS win. He will never get very close with any woman. He will always keep them at a distance.
I know how heartbroken you feel. It’s not about you. This is about HIS fear controlling him and he doesn’t even know it. Most don’t. And he can’t help it. It IS how he feels and like anyone, we follow how we feel unless we understand ourselves on a deeper level. No matter what you say or do, it’s not going to change what lives deep within him. He is not as happy as you think. He is not emotionally available. He is not someone you can create a loving, open, growing relationship with. Yes, he is avoidant mixed with anxious.
In the end though…the “why” does not matter. This is all a guess. The ONLY thing you know is that he has broken trust and safety in a BIG way. For him to bail because he doesn’t have feelings anymore is enough for you to know you cannot trust him. You cannot trust his feelings. You cannot trust what he says. You cannot trust that he is solid and consistent. And when these things are missing, a relationship will never work long term. He is not the person you thought he was. You are seeing more of his shadow side. The reality is, he follows how he feels instead of fighting against his feelings and that means that he would not be a good partner when things get rough. What is one day you had a child together and that child ended up in the hospital. His stress response would be to shut down and run away. He would NOT be a partner to go through life with when things are challenging because he is anxious avoidant….people like ARE NOT good partners. They leave you feeling VERY alone. This relationship DOES NOT have what it takes to survive challenges. It’s better you know this now. I know it hurts like crazy and I’m so sorry for that.
Thoughts on all of this?
Heidi
Hi Adina!
Thank you for sharing more.
So do you feel clear about having sex now? It must have been quite challenging for BOTH of you to deal with your guilt about having sex for so many years. How did your partner feel about it? What were his thoughts and feelings about the past year and not being intimate?
As to your questions…
1. I know birthdays are tough. I do suggest NOT to contact him. Remember, he has chosen to go in a different direction and that means he NEEDS to feel his life without you in it. He NEEDS to feel your absence so he can feel the full weight of his choice. It was not appropriate for him to contact you about his taxes. I know I’m taking a bit of a hardline here. I’m a firm believe that when someone breaks up, that doesn’t mean they can continue to reach out to their ex. It was not a very nice thing for him to do to reach out to you and use you for your knowledge, when he has broken your heart. He was only thinking about himself and not caring about the impact it would have on you or how it would make you feel. I’m also guessing he reached out for your help because he is missing you and even though the contact was only friendly, he still got a big dose of you. So moving forward, I suggest NOT helping him with anything. He has made his choice and that means truly sitting in that choice WITHOUT you in it. However, if you want to stay connected, you get to do that too. There is no right or wrong choice here…just different paths. You want to make sure that whatever you DO choose, that it aligns with what you are wanting to accomplish. I know you want him back and there is no guarantee that doing no contact for a while will produce that result. There is no guarantee that staying connected and available to him will bring him back either. That is why I suggest to put the focus on yourself. He has made a very hurtful choice. You are dealing with a broken heart. I know you want him back and that may or may not happen. You do not have control over that. But what you DO have control over is your healing. You DO have control with moving forward in your life. And that means that the choices you make need to support YOU directly and NOT this idea of getting him back. So moving on and focusing on your healing is THE path. Does that mean you can’t get back together? Absolutely not. It just means that you are going to respect his choice and work towards healing your heartbreak. If he comes back to you at some point and says “I miss you, I want to be with you etc.” then you will deal with that in the moment. If all you focus on is getting him back, you are spending your time NOT healing, NOT growing, NOT moving forward. You are choosing to stay stuck on an idea that may never happen. Does this make sense?2. What do you want to date for? You have a broken heart. Any guy you go on a date with will be a rebound. Is that really what you want to do? Tell me more about this.
As far as him not wanting to be married…that is a HUGE red flag. He is living in fear. That fear is sooooooo big that it’s created this massive wall that no woman will ever get beyond. No wonder he is breaking it off with you. He has kept you at arms length for a long time and he went as deep as he possibly could go with you. It has nothing to do with “marriage” and more to do with how much he gives his heart away. He gave you all he had. He went as deep as his walls will allow. So when he hit that barrier, one of the easiest things to do is to just start all over. So now he is involved with a woman at the very surface. She has no idea who he is and that means the “pressure” of growth and going deeper is now off the table. His system can now relax and not feel threatened. He would have done this to ANY woman. This has nothing to do with you. It has to do with the amount of fear he is carrying around about love and intimacy. And I highly doubt he is aware of any of this about himself.
Thoughts on this?
Heidi
Good to hear from you!
Maybe it’s scary to ask him about what he is doing to heal. A lot of people actually “think” about things a lot and try to understand what is happening by reading books or watching videos, but that is NOT healing. Most people don’t understand you have to go much deeper than that for healing to occur. We ALL want it to be as easy as reading or learning something. Believe me I get it. It’s actually where most people stay stuck. They try to educate themselves out of pain. They believe that if they just could understand or learn, that somehow that will fix their fears or hurt, but all it is, is the very first step in a long journey they are terrified to take, so they end up reading another book. LOL. I’ve done that sooooo many times!
As far as you not working through triggers very well, most people are not taught. I was hoping your coach or hypnotherapist would have equipped you with a skillset of how to work with yourself when you are triggered. Unfortunately, it’s one of the biggest downfalls of this industry. They don’t teach skills nor equip their clients with how to handle triggers in the moment. “this too shall pass” is definitely a thought that most people operate under. I wish that were true. I mean…it does pass eventually in the sense the pain will lessen or even go away, but it just gets buried until the next time. And the next time it gets activated, it will be even stronger.
Here is a 2 part podcast that I recently listened to that was FANTASTIC!!! I rarely say that about the self help industry, because most experts I come across, have BIG holes missing in their teachings, but this woman was SPOT ON! She completely understands and knows the core root of issues and how to work with them. Maybe you will sign up for her program! I think you might resonate with her approach. And what I LOVE LOVE LOVE about what she teaches in part 2…are the SKILLS needed to regulate your nervous system in a trigger….so she offers a plan and an approach about how to take care of yourself. And it’s stuff you can easily pass onto your kids.
Part 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/366y73CWYd8bgDxdRhxhtp?si=VCipzGOxR8uOfu1mQmiELg
Part 2: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6a0R5vGXL0s0v1n7FVYTSa?si=KZ9EDRecQcmH4BJj0KlpkAHope this helps!
Heidi
Hi Adina,
I just thought I would check in and see if you had any feelings about what I shared or anymore questions. Let me know! I’d love to work through this with you!
Heidi
Hello Adina!
Welcome! I am deeply sorry you are having to go through this. Feeling powerless as you watch the one you love disconnect from you and connect with someone else is very painful and confusing.
I’m not sure there is a way to gain his attention again. From what you are telling me, he may just need to head in a different direction. But let’s see what we can do to help you understand the deeper layers of what is REALLY happening and some next steps you can take.
I have a few questions.
1. What are his reasons for never wanting to get married?
2. What was happening in your relationship that the sex stopped for the past year?
3. You only wanted to get married for religious reasons? There are no other reasons? You feel completely peaceful and happy now to never get married?I’m guessing that his attentions going towards this other woman have more to do with his need to switch things up than it does being married to you. She is a shiny, new energy and I’m sure has awakened a lot of his senses. You both have been together for so long, that there are many things that can easily go “stale” if the relationship doesn’t continue to grow and expand. So this other woman is catching his attention and it feels good to him. He will have a serious wake up call one day when the reality hits about who she is too. They are still in the honeymoon phase which is full of a bunch of illusions. He also is in his golden years and I know that people in that phase of their life think A LOT about death. Who were they in their life? What have they accomplished? What is their legacy? What have they NOT done? There is a lot of life review happening in this phase and it can cause someone to make some pretty radical decisions. There may be an aspect to this other woman making him feel younger and have more vitality – which again will fade once the honeymoon period is over…if they last that long.
I’m not sure he would want to come back to you, even if you don’t need to get married. At least not right now. He may need to try on this other woman for a while to realize what he gave up in having you by his side. He may not. I don’t know. But what I do know is that the whole marriage thing is probably not the core issue here. It’s whatever is happening within him…and I doubt he even understands the deeper layers of why he is doing what he is doing. He is being lead by his feelings without understanding where they are coming from and why they are here. He may just need to go on a journey to learn the hard way.
What I do want to suggest is to disconnect completely. He will never know what he is missing in you, if you are constantly reaching out. He needs to feel the ABSENCE of you completely to know what you really mean to him. So I do suggest to find a way to disconnect completely. I know how painful that is, but it’s the ONLY way for him to feel the full weight of his choices.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Thanks for sharing this!
He did have a great reaction!! It’s good for you to voice your experience and for him to learn what is ineffective for you. I love how he didn’t get defensive. He accepted your feelings and is learning from them. Yay!!!
So what is he doing to “heal?” He obviously is aware he is messy and “broken” which is great. I’m wondering what he is actually doing about it though. Time does not heal. Time allows for feelings to get buried so people think they are healed because they don’t feel the hurt anymore, but in actuality, all the feelings are still there – just deeper below the surface. You know this though. You are at least here learning and asking for a different perspective to help you navigate this. What is he doing to help himself?
I’m also curious….how do you work through a trigger? What do you do to help yourself get to the other side of it in a healthy way?
It makes sense that you would share that you are more broken than he thinks. You were trying to comfort him. One of the most powerful ways you can help him is to talk to his higher/best self. So in that situation, you could say something like “Yes, you are messy and broken. We all are. But you know what? I believe you have everything within you to get through this. You are intelligent, you are strong, you are aware and you have been through much worse than what is happening right now and you are still hear, taking a risk in getting to know me – and that tells me you have courage even though you are scared…..” Reminding someone of their best self when they are struggling, is what can help them connect faster than ever to the truth and the part of them that will help them get through whatever challenge they are facing.
Heidi
Hello! Great to hear from you! Let’s talk about a few things here…
So, when those reactions hurt me it’s easier to choke it back, let time pass, and then move onto the next thing. This is your pattern Lisa. This is how you are used to coping around your family, your ex etc. How about working on this pattern? Your voice matters. Your experiences matter…even if it is coming from a wound. You simply say something like, “Yikes. What you said has put me a bit on the defensive.” or “You know, what you are saying right now is actually no effective. It hurts. I know that is not your intention, so how about a redo?”
so I know his reactions hurting me are not intentional. It doesn’t matter whether or not it’s intentional. How is he supposed to know what doesn’t work for you unless you teach him? He cannot become better at supporting you or become a better partner until you are honest with the times he is ineffective. And like I said before, it’s super easy to just say “I know you don’t mean to cause me hurt at all…I’m a bit sensitive in this area so the best way to say something like this me is…..” BE HIS TEACHER!!!! And in turn, you are role modeling to HIM what it looks like to be authentic, honest, and communicate hurt feelings in a healthy way….which hopefully he will learn how to do by following your lead. Men tend to learn best by watching their women.
I did tell him tonight in a text that I am more broken than he realizes. What does this mean exactly? We are all broken and there will always be things to “fix” until our last breath. I’m wondering what you were hoping to accomplish by telling him this, because it’s a low self-esteem statement. You are downplaying how wonderful you are – broken pieces and all. Are you trying to prepare him for something somehow? Were you trying to show him you are not as great as he thinks? What was going on with this statement?
He’s gone back to making me feel like I can’t say or do certain things, just when I started feeling comfortable with him. Okay, so it sounds like this is a real side to him….meaning it’s a side to him that is part of who he is and is a coping mechanism somehow. What EXACTLY does he say or do that makes you feel this way?
Heidi
