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He said the last time we were “going at it” there were “no fireworks.” My intuition suggested to me that he was one of those men who are desensitized physically, either from beer or having a larger size or whatever, and that he was accustomed to going for his goal of orgasm with friends with benefits women. So the last time he initiated, I said okay if he would slow down and be in the moment with me rather than focus on the goal of having an orgasm. The result was much more feeling for me but I couldn’t tell if it made any difference for him; my guess is no, otherwise he would have said he felt a little fireworks I would think.
I wanted to see if my idea of slowing down, as per the ebook, would change his experience, and although I suspect more time and more experiences slowed down like that might make a difference for him, I also fear losing our friendship by mucking it up with something that looks more like friends with benefits than a romance or a straight friendship. He’s obviously into me and attracted to me physically, intellectually, and sexually, but he said he isn’t feeling emotional connection/romantic feelings anymore towards me like he was at first. When this happened, I had been talking with him about being defamed by a former friend in the community, and a former friend with benefits of his who is now a friend only had been nasty to me because of the defamation. He’d spoken firmly to her and told me he doesn’t worry at all about what people say about him even though what those people said was wrong; he also moved them from friend to acquaintance status in his own life because of what they said about me. I’d also invited myself along on a laundry trip at that time. So I assume he lost romantic feelings due to those events, as they occurred right before he pulled away.TEMPLATES:
– Damsel in Distress signal – TEMPLATE: “May I please ask your advice really quick? It won’t take long.” (Polite request for his advice, engaging core need to be hero.)
Here are the other signals I need help creating templates for:
– Private Island signal – creating propinquity by indirectly tapping into the things he is already fascinated with – fascinate him with opportunities to be your hero. Hook his attention by activating his hero instinct with gradually intensifying requests for him to step into the hero role in your life. I can’t relate to the examples, as I don’t have a relationship with anyone in my family, don’t live in an apartment, and am not apartment shopping. TEMPLATE: Can you help me with [tiny thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [slightly more involved thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [larger favor tied to hero instinct]? – question about this is what is the frequency and what sorts of favors would I ask this particular guy as an example I have to work with in my life right now – he is a prior marine with a huge skill set so I was toying around with ideas like helping me create my firepit area, trying to take him up on his previous statement of desire to take me on a four wheeler tour of the region, or advising me in person or operating a rented bobcat to make my berm and swale sets better..
– Glimpse phrase signal – something you say to activate his imagination about a future with you. You choose words that forecast pleasure. I did try this when he was asking for massage trades, framing that activity as a way to increase each other’s happiness; to which he replied in the affirmative, like yeah I like that. But I wasn’t sure it made him think of a future with me at all, and I feel strange using this with someone who has lost romantic attraction for me. TEMPLATE: What do you think might happen if [we threw caution to the wind] and took the time to [pursue mutually-beneficial activities together]?
– I.O.U. signal – getting your foot in the door with a small request before asking for something more significant (how is this different from creating propinquity with increasing requests for the private island signal?) – TEMPLATE: [“wouldn’t you say you’re the kind of person who goes after what he wants in life? Someone who’s willing to do what it takes to have the best life has to offer?”..“Good, because I’d like to have a discussion where we are honest with each other about what we really want in life. It might feel a bit awkward, but I figure you’re the kind of person who’s willing to go through some awkwardness if it moves us toward the best life possible.”] (How is this different from the glimpse signal as well?)I wasn’t looking for a blanket statement I want templates that help me break down and create my own HI signal statements.
His frendship is important to me. I am also very interested in him as a prospective partner. Just yesterday we were talking excitedly about reforesting the valley where we live.
I think you mean be less at the ready. He tends to stop by twice a week now that he is at his new job. Yesterday I didn’t accept his invitation to go four wheeling right then and there; instead, I put my planned projects first and told him I could do it later in the day.
I felt more in my body and feminine energy as well, by wearing a dress and tuning in to the butterflies swarming the pond where he planted the trees I gave him.
He came over to me to share a smoke and beckoned me to sit with him in his hammock.
He asked if I wanted a foot massage and did an excellent job of it.
He gave me further information about the block he originally mentioned having turned off his romantic feelings, saying when we were in bed previously there wasn’t any fireworks.
I can continue to pursue my own joy and add a bit of a challenge when it comes to my time. Anything else?
Hi Spyce,
He wants to be friends. He doesn’t feel a romantic connection right now. He isn’t putting me on a “friend shelf” and “definitely, definitely” has some romantic feelings but pulled away two weeks ago when I made the mistake James Bauer mentions, of talking to him about social drama, plus joined him on a trip to do laundry.
He said also when we talked that he doesn’t understand why a label of relationship is necessary and wishes best friends could just keep doing what they’re (implied we’re) doing. What are your thoughts?First he said he didn’t feel romantic connection as of two weeks ago. (That time coincided exactly with two former mutual friends defaming me and my reacting in a stressed out, anxious way that contrasted with his not caring what people think as well as my mistake of talking about the drama with him. Right befire he pulled away I had also initiated joining him to do laundry, which felt dead.)
Next he said he is not putting me on a “friend shelf.”
Finally he admitted that he is “conflicted,” because he “definitely, definitely” has some romantic feeling/connection to me.
So I take the friend zone as a great opportunity to utilize propinquity, practice James Bauer’s friend zone article strategies, and keep trying to send hero instinct signals.Either way, I value his friendship a lot, as that is what we were for maybe 7 months before admitting we had a mutual crush. But I understand that a man’s feeling of atrraction can change based on how a woman is around him and do suspect my conduct was masculine which turned him off.
I didn’t say I’m not doing the deep work but whatever, a template pulls back from an example to isolate the prompts. For instance, the Damsel In Distress Signal starts with a request for help. I need your help is the basic statement. So, “I need your help [with something tied to his skills] would be a basic starting template.
You said, “what’s more important is understanding the concept and then you can make it your own by using it however you want.” And I have asked many times for help doing that via templates because of my block around examples.He came over yesterday amd said he had radio’d me twice the day before, had not had wifi so didn’t see my 3rd HI signal text at all. We talked and spent the whole rest of the day together. We are going to be friends unless a romantic spark somehow reignites.
Yeah I don’t know about all those things you said. But of course I want to be loved like anybody does, especially in the context of never having been cared about by anyone in my life. The drive and intensity you’re pulling from is about coping with PTSD in a direct and systematic way that allows me to learn new material efficiently in spite of the challenges of the disorder. I just want to master this material, because my brain is struggling with the digital format being difficult to parse and the examples being limited. Also as I said at the start I don’t easily translate stories like some of the examples in the book when it comes to learning a big thing in a short time. It has been less than a week and I am flying by the seat of my pants in some aspects.
Now that I have decided to take some time away from relationships I will likely be able to relax more but that too takes time. I just went through a whirlwind end of summer end to a friendship and now two. The only two I had made in the past year. At least one was due to defamation and a horrible choice in a female friend. So I have been working my butt off because of the sense of loss and associated fear.
I have been misunderstood my whole life by most people and hope to be taken at my word here so I can move ahead with my strategy for learning this material. I will consider what you say but know myself I think fairly well, too.Anyhow yes the template work I want to do with you or the other coaches in this forum will be for all signals in the book, as that is the way my brain works. I started with men who pull away bcause at the time I was confused as to what actually was said in the two stories in the book and how it really worked. My brain couldn’t wrap around those little snippets of information.
Hi Heidi,
I feel like you may be misunderstanding my approach to this course, thinking that I approach relationships like I do personal education and self development. That isn’t the case in my view. I was open, friendly, warm, receptive, complimentary, and fairly natural (other than being nervous) in my interactions with this man. I invested in this coaching package in order to get the assistance I know will help me master the HI material as a personal development self-care action that gives me hope in my life. So yes I would like to proceed on creating the requested templates please.
Regarding your story: “I couldn’t change my level of attraction until I worked on my beliefs/programs/limitations around love and connection with a man..” I get that, and it’s inspiring to hear you were able to heal yourself with a therapist. My own father was a sexually abusive and neglectful narcissist pothead who beat my mother and molested me (she abandoned me to him) and put me down on the regular. I subsequently attracted three boys in the fourth grade who bullied me for 9 years in a row on a daily basis, publicly humiliating me for being so “ugly” I “shouldn’t even be here” nor of course deserve to have a boyfriend. Here is my first stab (in this forum) at exploring my why when it comes to being attracted to the type of guy who’ll pull away from me after really liking me at first:
What was attractive about Jeremy?
It was how he responded when I asked him if he would be so kind as to talk to the management or personally see to it that the potted trees didn’t die for lack of being watered. He gave me the feeling that he cared about what I’d asked and was going to handle it. I felt relieved and grateful as well as something else, like a warm feeling. After that, I could not shake my crush; that seemed tied to the sense that there was this caring, capable man in the area I’d just moved to who seemed to take my concern over the trees as important and who didn’t give me a hard time for initiating a conversation with him, especially since I had had to push past the fear he would think I was hitting on him in order to save those trees. But when he later didn’t ask me out, when he gave me that look like, “don’t choose me,” on the day I first smiled at a man, which ended up being a married guy so I said I’d try it with Jeremy; when he was always with Samara or Marcia, when Marcia talked about them sleeping together etc., when he stayed with them for so long, when he hung out with them all the time, when he never made a move to ask me out, when he slept with me the night I was stranded in the storm, when he said he wasn’t interested in anyone else but spent all his time with Marcia instead of me, when he told me he wouldn’t cheat if and when he entered a solid relationship, when he lied about breaking it off with them, lied about noticing Samara had lost weight, lied about her having been staying with him when I got stranded, when he said what would make him happy was one person to spend all his time with and then chose Jim to hang out with instead of me, when he was selfish in bed..I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
What about that coworker I was paired with for mentoring?
His confidence as the top salesman, but also the chemistry I felt; he worked me though I think, by laying on his charm in a personal manner at work. He also touched me, which he must have known would hormonally attach me to him. I had no shield up, because I expected professionalism at work, so it seemed special and I gave him the benefit of the doubt.
What about Brendan?
Brendan lied to me throughout our relationship, about his ex, who had used the hero instinct to tie him to her via her daughter, to his need for a sense of purpose and meaning in his life, to the point that they had been separated for 6 years but he was paying for everything, shuttling them around, and even formally adopting her. He was essentially having an emotional affair, and although I discovered this only as I progressed deeper in the relationship, I had told him I wasn’t comfortable with her sleeping at his house, and when he said he had been meaning to put his foot down about that with her, I gave him the benefit of the doubt and didn’t follow up to confirm she was no longer sleeping over. Her daughter let it slip one day, and that’s how I found out he hadn’t dealt with it like he’d told me he was going to. Same as Jeremy saying he was going to definitely break it off but them “getting weak” and failing to stave off the disrespectful advances of Marcia and Samara. Then when Brendan told me his ex would need to live in our house if we got married, because her daughter “did better” with her mother around, even when I asked why didn’t she stay at her mom’s house like in every other coparenting situation, I gave him the benefit of the doubt instead of asking him to take me to my car so I could go home, and of course break up with him.So with this pattern of giving men the benefit of the doubt when they fly flags, something I can do is the next time a man gives me the first cue that he is not prioritizing my feelings and needs, I can end things with him right away instead of hanging onto the hope that he will care about me. Like I held out hoping for love and care from my entire family until I was in my early 40’s and had to finally give up and break off all contact to maintain my emotional health.
I will need some things to be in place in order to step up in such bravery:
– extend my energy, open my heart to contain the space around me; remind myself that all is well and great things are already on their way to me, that I can’t see the possibilities around the very next corner, so I can let go and trust it’s all working out in my favor without the man on my mind
– reflect back on all of the relationships I’ve had that I thought were my only chance at love, and how I met another and another and another man afterward; how I’m over every single guy I once struggled intensely with attachment to
– remind myself that the very act of ending a connection I don’t feel 100% good about is the very door opening to let someone better into my lifeThis is a good start of course, but as you did with a therapist, which is not available to me where I live and under my current circumstances, and which has not helped me much in the past anyway, I’m thinking this coaching forum is something I’d like to keep doing to work on this over time.
From this coaching interaction and YT videos I recently found, I’m clear now that I didn’t do anything wrong other than allow myself to be attracted to and become involved with a man who was familiar but NOT relationship material. This is a HUGE shift away from the previous YT videos I’d been watching that seem to be preying on women who are stuck in their pain bodies over men who have pulled away, telling women how they can “get him back.”
I no longer want this man. I want to master the HI material for when I choose to enter a relationship again, but I also now want to focus on getting help in this forum figuring out how to heal my attraction to the wrong kind of men, those who pull away.
What is the process you recommend me to begin to heal this deeper issue in myself?
Thank you.I am glad to hear that it works. I agree with you as well.
I signed up for this coaching program after buying the book in order to drill down and get pro assistance working out some phrasing for men who pull away, as I have had this happen countless times. I’ve decided to stay single for a while, so that I can master the HI process before I enter any new relations with men again.
So I’d like to start with the two examples from the HI sales video and ebook:
1. Sales video for the ebook – the man pulled away and she got a 12 word text from James, plus knew what to text back when her guy responded to that.
2. HI ebook – the attractive woman who visited James’ office before breaking it off with a current BF in order to start dating a new guy, who then pulled away. She used the X-Ray Signal and it brought him back.I would like to spend the time here with a coach’s help to create a template from each of those two examples. Please tell me how I can adjust my draft templates to make sure they are accurate baselines from which I can derive variations relevant to furture similar scenarios:
For #1 –
“May I please ask your advice really quick? It won’t take long.” (TEMPLATE: Polite request for his advice, engage core need to be hero.)
Instead of presenting him with a permanent choice, like, “Do you want to start talking again?” she took a shortcut by triggering his hero instinct.
Giving a bit of advice is not about the relationship. So it was nonthreatening.
Mike asked her why she wanted to talk. She responded, “I need your help.” (TEMPLATE: Universal & straightforward engagement of hero instinct.)
When he said, “With what?” She responded with, “Making a decision.” (TEMPLATE: Keeping from saying what it is yet, answering with another version of engaging his hero instinct.)
When he said, “What kind of decision?” She said, “Something I thought you would know better than me. Do you mind if I call really quick?” (TEMPLATE: Again deflecting from a direct answer by complimenting his skill set, then making a direct request for a conversation.)For #2 –
Her new goal was simple. Each time she had a chance to interact with him, she asked him about high points—peak life experiences.
He loved talking about these things. It energized him and he ended up paying more attention to her in the process of trying to fully answer her questions or relay the stories behind uplifting moments in his life. (TEMPLATE: Get him talking I guess about his peak experiences, meaningful moments, and just listen or prompt him to keep telling more with further questions like ‘what about x was particularly meaningful to you?’ and variations of that question until you get one word or phrase from him.)
It wasn’t long until she discovered a common interest she had with him for entrepreneurial ventures. They started talking about flipping houses for profit. He felt alive when he was pursuing a dream like that. (TEMPLATE: So talk with him about any shared interest to build commonality?)
She asked him what he enjoyed about talking with her. She thought he would say it was their shared interest in entrepreneurial ventures. But his answer surprised her. (TEMPLATE: Ask him a direct X-Ray Signal about you or you and him.)
He said, “You seem to believe in me. And that inspires me. My parents and all my previous girlfriends rolled their eyes whenever I talked about possibilities. You’re different.” (TEMPLATE: Somehow the above flipped him toward her after that..Not sure what the template for this X-Ray Signal example would be in one sentence or whatever.)Thank you!
I sent my 3rd hi signal, a combination of vulnerability and x-ray, this time about he and I; he didn’t write back at all. So it seems like he’s ghosting as soon as I even begin to speak up, and that’s made ME lose interest completely.
Coaches on YouTube say pulling away means any man isn’t worthwhile. But it’s unclear from the avoidance of my core question here in this forum whether that is always the case and I wanted to hear from HI coaches on that specific point.
I signed up for coaching to be able to drill down on and am still waiting for an answer to my question about how to use the hi material with men who pull away?
Hi, self love is fine and good, but there is indeed a prpblem to be solved: men pulling away after being so into me.
I utilize my happiness triggers, work regularly on my goals, and have a few friends as well as reach out to try to make new ones. I am physically healthy and enjoy the company of two pets.
I need to learn what makes man after man pull away because it is way too painful and I deserve a life partner. There is nothing wrong with wanting a mate or husband, and I have a lot to offer.I read Why Men Shut Women Out and was surprised that the reasons are that they are hurt. I need to discover how I am hurting men and change my behavior so this stops happening. The Hero Instinct (HI) ebook/course is supposed to teach me how to do this. It seems to me that this material should open the heart of any man, in any stage, so I am asking for how to use the HI material with a man who pulls away please.
Hi Heidi,
You are probably right about the flags. He is being hurtful by pulling away with no conversation about what’s coming up for him, and he has clearly lost interest as so many men do. I am working this hard to grow into the kind of woman who will hopefully attract lasting devotion/love and also to test the HI material. If it works it will draw him back, right?
I tried my 3rd HI Signal yesterday in text form, this time with a combination of showing vulnerability and asking an X-Ray question to keep learning about his desires and needs. That one he did not reply to and may ghost me over.
I am in a remote location on my own, so the prospects are nonexistent other than tourists or those who come to the nearby national park and buy land in the area. I could use a friend in the neighborhood if thr relationship isn’t going to happen, but I spent most of the time he has pulled away afraid of expressing how it made me fewl confused and afraid. I figure I have nothing to lose by trying the HI Signals, if he does reply or I see him around again someday or whatever.
My big question is whether the HI material works with a man who has pulled away? Thank you.
