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I hear you about story. The fact really was just that I didn’t hear from him for a week, and I didn’t know why; I assumed it was the death knoll and also that it was because of a mistake I made. His buddy had come over while I was there Saturday a week ago and chided him for “letting me” start digging with his pick ax. I had toasted his buddy, feeling sheepish for not having waited for Jeremy to take the lead on tree planting; after a week of total silence from him, I came to assume that my actions might have come off as not having his back and thus embarrassed him in front of his friend.
I radioed him twice this past Saturday but got no answer so assumed he wasn’t home. I wanted to give him a peace offering and hike his road as he’d suggested when I’d said previously that I had wanted to find a hike in the area. When I arrived he was there with Marcia, one of his former FWBs whom he’d said is a “cool person” and so has stayed friends with. I felt ashamed. I handed him the brownies and charger as my peace offering and went on the hike with my dog. As I left he invited me to come back and hang out, saying his best friend Jake might be coming over that evening.
At first as I hiked, I thought about graceful ways to decline (slink away in shame), but then I remembered how Marcia had crashed a group plan we’d made with two other people to go 4 wheeling a month or so ago, how she’d showed up and asked to come along, cried, and then sat in her car the whole time on her phone. I realized I was defaulting to a mindset of low self-worth, as if I didn’t deserve to hang out, even when he’d chosen to invite me. I asked myself why in the world would I forgo what I needed when she pushed to get what she wanted and was still his friend? I decided to accept his invite to hang out and get the companionship that I need and which had been offered to me.
Marcia ignored me other than to insinuate my having done something to one of Jeremy’s dogs, which she’d recently adopted. He and I took turns playing his drum set (he is teaching me to play, and he has frequently remarked that I have a natural ability with it). She spoke to him in dulcet tones and managed to get him to speak softly back to her. It somewhat sickened me, but I already know she is very manipulative and was not there with the intention of just being his friend; I just kept returning to my intention of showing up for what I need instead of assuming I don’t deserve it or am unwanted. I felt comfortable for the most part actually, and it was very empowering to me to – for the first time in my life – stick around despite my feelings of shame at not having been included originally and his spending time with her instead etc.
I feel I am in a place of needing to heal my core wounding and am not ready to start a serious relationship right now. I need friends and human contact though. It was a new experience for me to hang out with another girl around (especially one who has mistreated me after hearing false gossip about me as well as manipulated him by exploiting his weaknesses and tresspassing his stated boundaries multiple times). But it helped me build my confidence muscles and also seems to have demonstrated to Jeremy that whatever made him pull away all week didn’t cause me to panic or try to talk to him about “the relationship,” and it seemed to keep me present in his mind and reconnected us or something. He has said before several times that I should play the drums every day, and so when he mentioned it again while I was there I finally responded by saying I was ready to take him up on it. I put three times a week in my calendar to go over there and practice for an hour or two. I get something neat out of learning to play an instrument, which has always been on my mind but I never found one I could stick with or really get into before. Plus, he has handed me a perfect opportunity for propinquity, so how can I not take it when he keeps bringing it up?I went home at ten p.m. that night, saying, “Whatever you guys had planned I’ll leave you to it.” I have no idea if she slept over or went home that night. He radioed me the next morning at 9:30 to ask me to look up the time of his concert that evening and invite me to hang out with he and Jake, who had come over to his place that morning rather than the night before. I provided the requested information with a friendly attitude and also brought over the rest of the brownies. We all hung out and talked for about two hours before they had to drive to their show. It felt good, and I was happy that he’d initiated to include me again. After I put my dog in the car, I walked back to say goodbye. He was in his camper getting packed and didn’t come out to give me a hug, so I hugged his friend and as I was walking back to my car, Jeremy asked me if I was going to be around the next day; I said yes and he said he’d probably hit me up.
It rained hard last night, and my swales blew out and my gully was flooded. I spent this morning with a shovel. It’s unlikely that anyone will be able to get anywhere without a 4 wheeler, so I’m hanging out at home today with self-care routines and indoor projects and reveling in the fact that I had my furnace repaired just in time.
I feel like there are obviously issues between us after watching Marcia work him, but I am glad to have reestablished contact in a way that he seemed to respond positively to. I feel like I’m in an academy, learning the hard subject of relating. No one is black and white bad or good. I am not perfect. I don’t know how to speak in dulcet tones, flirt, or inspire romantic feelings. I would like to learn, but I am so filled up by inclusion as a friend that that’s what I want right now. The fact that he is either blind to Marcia’s machinations or likes her on some level beyond just friends is a turn off for me anyway.
Over the weekend I also met up with a new girlfriend for brunch at the cafe in town. She is moving away soon, but I figure it’s better to utilize the opportunity to get to know her and maybe do a few activities together before that. You never know where a path will lead. I recently invited his friend Raymond’s wife, whom I’d noticed previously, to brunch. She’d enthusiastically accepted, but then cancelled the morning of due to an unexpected trip she had to make. She texted me a while afterward though to ask if I would be at dance practice (a short-term performance-based thing) and later suggested we go to a live music thing together. I met her there and we loosely hung out. I’m also friendly with Heather who works near the pool and has been hosting Halloween themed movie nights. She asked me to meet her for a live music event recently but it wasn’t happening that night it turned out.
I feel nervous but like I should probably ask both of the latter two women to do something soon. It turns out my self-esteem issues extend past romantic relationships to friendships, too. I feel terrified of saying or doing something that will make them ditch out on me. I’ve had so many people do that in my past without saying why.
I assume it is something like what I said to Jeremy’s friend Raymond, not thinking through first how it might affect Jeremy if I said it. But the fact that I’m operating without feedback is confusing. A lot of past abandonment is likely my having attracted shitty people. I know this because I was able to glean proof in a couple of instances.
Well, that’s where I’m at at the moment. Thanks.Jeremy pulled away again – no response to a text since last Saturday and no visits or radioing for the first time. I assume it’s for good and not worth trying anymore. Plus if he thinks so lowly of me to drop me like that why bother? I do need hia friendship but can get by with no one as usual. I definitely haven’t initiated after he ignored my text and then stopped coming over or radioing me. And I had planned if I did hear from him to drop the HI signals. But it seems like it’s over and too late etc.
I’m very interested in healing my pattern.
All I have been able to do so far is identify with the ‘unavailable daddy, chasing love that will never come’ pattern and also the ‘attract unavailable friends because my family always devalued my feelings and needs so the way I truly feel and what I really need will likely not be valued by others either’ pattern.
You asked “it could be good to explore those blocks, see where they come from, and try to clear them as you mentioned. Do you have some ideas for how to do that? You mentioned EMDR which I know is great. Any other thoughts?”
I could definitely use advice or guidance there as I tend to have a difficult time getting from the concept of healing to the actual method – like what do I actually do to heal the patterns I’ve identified?
Thanks.
Now you understand why I put so much effort into not losing Jeremy. He seems to have abandoned me regardless. As per the usual.
There are no MeetUps here. I am here because the transnational “cabal of warmongers,” as one U.S. Senator recently put it, represent a clear and present danger, and I am here to survive. But it was no different in the cities. In Los Angeles County I made several loose friendships, like I did in Ashland and Portland before that. But never the close friendships wherein we spend regular time together. Until Jeremy. Before he disappeared on me again after last Saturday. I guess because I overdid the HI signals.
I need to clear my block keeping people at a distance. Keeping only people like my abusive, neglectful, abandoning parents. I will learn self EMDR and brainstorming and maybe read a book or three from your suggestions.
But now you see what I mean by being alone all the time. It’s always been this way for me.The problem I have with being alone isn’t about not being in a romantic relationship. It is about literally being alone all of the time. I.e. no one to talk to or do things with. I need friends. It’s normal and healthy to want human companionship. I don’t agree that it would be a healthy goal to be totally fine with just continuing on in total isolation other than the rare occasions someone delivers groceries and I exchange pleasantries with them or I buy a burrito at the mini mart and exchange a few words about the weather. I think it’s very healthy for me to want people with whom I can mutually make plans to meet for meals or shows and to have real conversations with. That is what I need.
Jeremy was one of two friends I thought I was making after moving to a new state. The sense of loss and desperation that motivated me to rigorously pursue mastery of the HI material was more about human companionship. We said we both wanted to go with the third option he presented, that of a friendship with a possible future. I haven’t heard from him since last Saturday, and I haven’t seen anyone else socially. I drove to the mini mart for human contact and talked to a mechanic about my car. That’s all I can expect for the rest of the day. It’s not enough.James and Heidi,
I appreciate your feedback and understand that my draft templates (as James said, to make sure I can wrap my head around the core concepts so I can fill in the situation-specific details better when opportunities arise) are not off base and I can go ahead and use them as it were. That was what I was struggling with. Also, James thank you for your time; I’ve studied and talked to a number of coaches and your program has sincerity written all over it, which was like a bouey in the sea I’ve always floated in otherwise.
Heidi, I agree with you and realize that I was trying too hard to “get” this in order to “save” the “relationship” and so asked and/or appreciated at least once each time we hung out; I’ll definitely cool it now that I understand the appropriate frequency for using this stuff. What you wrote about Jeremy having self-esteem issues beyond anything I did or didn’t do allows me to stop caring so much about “getting it right” with him or even wondering if he might be pulling away again etc.
I didn’t respond originally to your suggestions for how to heal my core wounds because I’m a little vague on what exact steps I need to take to do that. It sounds like you’re saying that the decision to stop pursuing success with men like Jeremy, who are unavailable unrelated to me, is a matter of accepting aloneness and seeking my own joys. Because I’m alone almost all the time, it has been challenging for me to “accept” it; I tend to want companionship. I read a book once about “happy triggers” and took that to heart. Now I go to the pool in the summertime and a cafe on the weekend. It makes me feel less isolated. At times it triggers my feeling of being alone, as I overhear and glance up at all the groups and couples surrounding me.
I hope I’m on the right track with healing like you are coaching me to focus on, as it makes sense to me how Jeremy isn’t the man I believed he is and I’m not as undesirable as it seemed at first.
🙂 JadeneI am alone in the desert and was defamed by the other friend in whom I invested. So I can only “love myself” (vague concept) by taking action on my happy triggers, which means sitting at the cafe in town once a week and hoping new people come along eventually.
Here it is again for your reference:
TEMPLATES:
– Damsel in Distress signal – TEMPLATE: “May I please ask your advice really quick? It won’t take long.” (Polite request for his advice, engaging core need to be hero.)
Here are the other signals I need help creating templates for:
– Private Island signal – creating propinquity by indirectly tapping into the things he is already fascinated with – fascinate him with opportunities to be your hero. Hook his attention by activating his hero instinct with gradually intensifying requests for him to step into the hero role in your life. I can’t relate to the examples, as I don’t have a relationship with anyone in my family, don’t live in an apartment, and am not apartment shopping. TEMPLATE: Can you help me with [tiny thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [slightly more involved thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [larger favor tied to hero instinct]? – question about this is what is the frequency and what sorts of favors would I ask this particular guy as an example I have to work with in my life right now – he is a prior marine with a huge skill set so I was toying around with ideas like helping me create my firepit area, trying to take him up on his previous statement of desire to take me on a four wheeler tour of the region, or advising me in person or operating a rented bobcat to make my berm and swale sets better..
– Glimpse phrase signal – something you say to activate his imagination about a future with you. You choose words that forecast pleasure. I did try this when he was asking for massage trades, framing that activity as a way to increase each other’s happiness; to which he replied in the affirmative, like yeah I like that. But I wasn’t sure it made him think of a future with me at all, and I feel strange using this with someone who has lost romantic attraction for me. TEMPLATE: What do you think might happen if [we threw caution to the wind] and took the time to [pursue mutually-beneficial activities together]?
– I.O.U. signal – getting your foot in the door with a small request before asking for something more significant (how is this different from creating propinquity with increasing requests for the private island signal?) – TEMPLATE: [“wouldn’t you say you’re the kind of person who goes after what he wants in life? Someone who’s willing to do what it takes to have the best life has to offer?”..“Good, because I’d like to have a discussion where we are honest with each other about what we really want in life. It might feel a bit awkward, but I figure you’re the kind of person who’s willing to go through some awkwardness if it moves us toward the best life possible.”] (How is this different from the glimpse signal as well?)This reply was reposted 1 day, 19 hours ago by Jadene F.
Separately, I also would like to explore why he isn’t responding to the HI signals. He says he is failing with relationships like he just can’t win lately, and he brushes aside my efforts with statements that seem to say he doesn’t feel like my hero or even a man around me. James wrote that the signals may not work at first because a woman isn’t good at using them yet. I ask his help (advice, muscles, mutually enjoyable recreational activities..) and appreciate him frequently. I even said I need someone like him in my life. But he sees me as not needing any help.
I wonder what I am doing wrong? Is it really that I have to wait for him to get a solar system as good as mine is?
Why are none of my HI signals triggering his emotions, his HI yet?
Or are they in fact working but just super slowly? For example, I definitely noticed when he lit and even carbed my water pipe, which nobody has ever done for me before; talk about providing. He offered me his spot in the hammock so his flag wouldn’t flap me in the face. He offered to help me load the rocks he gave me. He dragged his chair close to the hammock where I sat. He initiates spending time together twice to three times a week.
These are all manly acts of moving toward me IMHO.
I sent a text appreciating his advice on my berms and got a response but it seemed lackluster. I don’t understand, is the response itself a good sign or am I looking for emotional content to his answer?Am I doing this HI stuff wrong or right?
Here it is again for your reference:
TEMPLATES:
– Damsel in Distress signal – TEMPLATE: “May I please ask your advice really quick? It won’t take long.” (Polite request for his advice, engaging core need to be hero.)
Here are the other signals I need help creating templates for:
– Private Island signal – creating propinquity by indirectly tapping into the things he is already fascinated with – fascinate him with opportunities to be your hero. Hook his attention by activating his hero instinct with gradually intensifying requests for him to step into the hero role in your life. I can’t relate to the examples, as I don’t have a relationship with anyone in my family, don’t live in an apartment, and am not apartment shopping. TEMPLATE: Can you help me with [tiny thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [slightly more involved thing tied to hero instinct]? Can you help me with [larger favor tied to hero instinct]? – question about this is what is the frequency and what sorts of favors would I ask this particular guy as an example I have to work with in my life right now – he is a prior marine with a huge skill set so I was toying around with ideas like helping me create my firepit area, trying to take him up on his previous statement of desire to take me on a four wheeler tour of the region, or advising me in person or operating a rented bobcat to make my berm and swale sets better..
– Glimpse phrase signal – something you say to activate his imagination about a future with you. You choose words that forecast pleasure. I did try this when he was asking for massage trades, framing that activity as a way to increase each other’s happiness; to which he replied in the affirmative, like yeah I like that. But I wasn’t sure it made him think of a future with me at all, and I feel strange using this with someone who has lost romantic attraction for me. TEMPLATE: What do you think might happen if [we threw caution to the wind] and took the time to [pursue mutually-beneficial activities together]?
– I.O.U. signal – getting your foot in the door with a small request before asking for something more significant (how is this different from creating propinquity with increasing requests for the private island signal?) – TEMPLATE: [“wouldn’t you say you’re the kind of person who goes after what he wants in life? Someone who’s willing to do what it takes to have the best life has to offer?”..“Good, because I’d like to have a discussion where we are honest with each other about what we really want in life. It might feel a bit awkward, but I figure you’re the kind of person who’s willing to go through some awkwardness if it moves us toward the best life possible.”] (How is this different from the glimpse signal as well?)I am still waiting for help creating templates after asking many times. My list is clear, organized, and took some time to create. I signed up for this forum to get help extracting templates, so I would appreciate it if a coach would help me with this.
I feel sad and disappointed at having feelings for another unavailable man.
I feel frustrated that I haven’t yet gotten the hero instinct signals to trigger his core need to provide.
I feel good about preserving our friendship.
I feel afraid I won’t meet any other men but he will meet other women. (He did decide to do a sex cleanse related to his sense of failing at relationships.)
I feel overwhelmed and hopeless at the prospect of somehow mysteriously “healing” my subconscious program of trying to get unavailable men to love me. I have no idea how to do that at all.
I feel a thin shred of hope at having heard a section of the ebook audio in my car last night that felt more deeply relevant after Jeremy literally told me he is failing at relationships, that he doesn’t see a need in me he can provide for and doesn’t feel a need to be a man with me. The section was on behavioral conditioning and the action step was to show increased affection when he does what I want then gradually reserve that for increasing levels of him giving.
The lack of emotional connection/attraction would have made me feel unwanted, and the possibility of him meeting someone else would have made me feel insecure.
I told him this morning I chose option 3, and he told me he had decided the same late last night.I decided to add on to my earlier post because events have transpired prior to the natural response time of coaches in this forum and I want to address them.
So he radioed me today and respectfully asked if I minded if he came over. He asked for my advice because an old girlfriend of his from high school who is 39 still lives with her parents had had enough and so he is considering that he cannot not help her out in her time of need and could do so by allowing her to live on his property in a camper down the way from his place.
I gave him my honest opinion, told him that someone I had confided in thinks he has some deep-seated blocks that have nothing to do with he and I. I said what he is considering was the same block expressed in yet another iteration, but he essentially said she doesn’t have the ability to rescue herself and he would feel awful if he didn’t help.
Nevertheless, we had a fantastic conversation that lasted many hours. It resulted in him saying that there’s three options we could select from. Number one would be us just being platonic friends with no potential future together as a couple. He said that would suck. Number two would be us being exclusive friends with benefits with a potential for a future relationship. Number three would be us being platonic friends with a potential for a future relationship together. Neither one of us could figure out in that moment which one of the latter two would be best but figured we’d each think about it and then talk more later. In the meantime after all that stuff was said and done he had rebroadcast a comment from much earlier in our friendship, one I never felt confident enough to act on before, that he loves it when a woman takes the initiative and initiates sex in a really bold way because it lets him know he is wanted. So I took courage and we had the best sex we’ve ever had. I felt very comfortable and okay showing interest, which was the first time that it has felt that way for me with him. I did it because I understood a lot more after our talk.
Namely that he is interested in a possible future with me and actually is having a reasonable response to us not yet having spent the kind of quality time needed to grow close emotionally. There was also a golden nugget, as he said he doesn’t see me as needing anything he could provide to me, as I am “killing it” with my off grid setup, ahead of how far he’s gotten with his. 🙁 I grokked then that helping the ex is his latest subconscious bid to get his HI need met because she displays obvious “need” of rescue and his military ethics say to help others whenever he is able.
So we are obviously getting closer in several ways, and talking more has revealed much more about his feelings and actions, i.e. he isn’t ready (neither of us is, clearly because we haven’t had the time to develop an emotional connection yet). We both agree we do not want to lose our friendship above all.So I am torn. It seems like option 3 is the safest bet for a future, but he also would want option 2 to be monogamous and exclusive. I guess the question I have from your perspective is weather option two or three would give me the best chance to build an emotional connection with him as we both would like. Exclusivity with a best friend is pretty tempting.
Yes I will be his friend.
John Gray made a comment in an interview I saw recently, that if a woman had an unavailable daddy she tries to get unavailable men to love her.
I admit I don’t see a way through, a viable method to change my embedded pattern of attracting the unavailable man. I have always done it, and I have always been alone. Even in relationships the boyfriend has always had other commitments or behaviors that gave me the clear, strong feeling he was not there with me or was physically absent. I have always found myself having to go out alone and spend all my time alone.
I find myself wondering hopelessly whether a woman neglected by her father can ever change and if so how?“I’m a little confused. How is he attracted to you on all those levels but then doesn’t have romantic feelings for you? Do you mean that he is good with a FWB type of situation and doesn’t really see you as a long term partner? It doesn’t sound like he is connected sexually to YOU in particular and that he easily falls into a pattern of reaching the “goal” and not thinking much about the process.”
I am simply reporting what he has shown me or told me. He wanted a relationship and was “very” interested in me and no one else. Then a little over two weeks ago he pulled away and when we addressed it together when he came over one day he said he’d lost his romantic attraction/feelings.
I don’t get it either but assume I did something to turn them off in him somehow.
It makes me sad because he said he was able to assert his needs by stopping his fwb pattern with those two girls because of “the possibility of something” with me.
