[Vino]

What other feeling/beliefs do you think you inherited through your DNA from your parents? These are things they would never have taught you. Things that are just in you and think they are not yours. What about your kids too? What have they inherited from you and their dad that might be ancestral stuff?

I don’t know. When I’m spewing ‘wisdom’ i’ve had one of my aunt’s say that i sound like my Dad. Other than that, i’ve never had anyone say i do or say anything that resembles anyone from my family. And i’ve never ever had anyone tell me i’m behaving like an Indian (either in a positive or a negative way).

The kids have inherited a slightly skewed relationship to money, from their dad. He was always talking about how much things cost and how poor he is. So, i hear my kids always saying they’re too poor for something or other. I don’t think i can change how they feel till i have more than $600 in my bank account though! lol 🙂 they DO comment on my inability to see myself as poor. And also — we have conversations all the time about mindset and the true value of money – and they are very receptive to my view points. For example, the younger one just started working at Red Lobster, at their bar, and she was disappointed that the pay wasn’t $15. I told her, that’s ok – maybe they’ll give her a raise later – but she’s not truly worth $15 right at the start, because she’s taking up the time of a second person who needs to train her, so she’s not carrying her full weight. ALSO – i told her she’s getting WAY MORE than $15 worth in experience, with the kinds of people she’s working with and the kinds of customers she’s going to meet. She didn’t argue with me about that — and every time she comes home from work she’s full of stories. I overheard her saying to her brother: “I feel weird. I’m not ‘supposed’ to be enjoying work so much!” lol 🙂

i had a discussion with my son some time back, when he asked me why i was wasting money buying random courses online instead of just going to business school, if i wanted to learn to do a business. I told him they don’t teach a very important thing in business school — the mindset of the rich! Which is why most people who are graduating from business school aren’t millionaires. But independent entrepreneurs ARE! and he asked me — is it even possible to teach someone a different kind of mindset?! and i was like: YES!!! i love it because he asked the question himself, and i know that his subconscious will search for evidence that i am right! Oh, i LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOVE Talking to my kids! I am thrilled to NO END that they are no longer under the direct influence of their dad. I see in them, more of what i have passed on to them, than what their dad has. I spent more time with them. I also poured myself into them in a way he never did. So, even though i wasn’t able to keep them from thinking we’re poor, their attachment to money is weak, like mine. They are very generous, when they Do have money. Last month i borrowed money from the younger one to pay the rent. This month, i’ll be borrowing from the older one. They had more money than i did because they got money back from college for something or other. lol 🙂

I’m curious, if I told you that if you cleared the judgments about Indians, Ethiopians and women, your depressive episodes would be much less and you will feel much lighter and much more emotionally free in ALL areas of your life, would you still not do anything about it right now? If clearing these judgments were a HUGE key to your emotional freedom and happiness, would you still think nothing of it?

lol 😀 you are persistent! 🙂 Clearing these judgements may or may not have a huge impact on my emotional freedom and happiness. You don’t know for sure how i’m wired up. I don’t see ANY of my current stresses as being related to them in ANY way. For example – clearing my judgements against them isn’t going to pay my bills. Nor is it going to deepen my relationship with my children, or with God. I see my relationships as flowing out from God. SO – when my relationship with HIM is clear — it clears my relationships with others, starting with those closest to me. the only relationships whose progressions i’m interested in is between me and my kids, and between me and JB. Even with my mom, and my siblings, i’m at a place where i don’t feel the need to deepen things with them. We’re at a very good place, full of mutual respect, which allows us to see each other’s love for each other, and we are able to give and receive freely on a material level — so it’s perfect, as far as i’m concerned.

There’s another reason i don’t care to clear my judgements against THEM. — my judgements weren’t formed in a vaccuum. They were formed as a result of my reactions to injustices that i experienced from them. SO – they’re there for a reason. I had come to a place where i de-valued my inner self so much that i refused to trust my intuition. In fact, i deliberately snuffed it out in order to get married. Why should i disrespect myself that way again? To me, to work on clearing those judgments is the same as being disrespectful to me. I see benefits to THEM and none to me.

So – no – not only do i not see any value in clearing my judgements, i also see it as a slap in my own face — valuing them more than myself and my feelings. EVEN if my judgements are wrong, i stand by them. I’m sorry. I matter. My experiences matter. My judgements matter. My view of the world matters. Even if i’m the only one who sees what i see. Unless God himself changes the way i see things, i’m not changing them. THEY are not more important than i am.

~~ vino

[Vino]

The thing is, it’s more about YOUR relationship with the question than the question itself. When I do work with people to help clear out the “mud,” I start with targets. These are the things in their life that generate a reaction of any kind. I use the SUD scale (subjective units of distress scale) and have them rate their reaction to a situation on a scale of 0-10. 0 is neutral/no negative reaction at all, which is where you want to be – 10 being incredibly triggering. So when people ask you where you are from, you are not at 0. That question could be a target that could lead you to the core thoughts/beliefs/programs that are influencing all the reactions you have towards Indians and Ethiopians.

I agree with all that you have said here. The reason i’m not concerned about it is because it’s not a matter of importance to me. For example – if i’m allergic to poison ivy, and there’s no poison ivy around me, it’s pointless to treat myself for allergic reactions to poison ivy. That’s how i see this – the question is a trigger. So, when i encounter it, i know i will react. to me, KNOWING this, has already diluted it’s effect on me, because it won’t affect my RESPONSE to this question. I have created enough space in my mind around it, to deal with the reactions that i might have. For now, that’s good enough for me. I really don’t care to know why i’m reacting.

So do you feel you are releasing all of this to God? I personally feel it’s my responsibility to actively work with my judgments and clear them so that I am as clean as I possibly can be. The cleaner I am, the more loving and connective I am and the more honoring I am of myself and every person that crosses my path. It sounds like you are just waiting for God to clear this one for you. Is this your approach? Because you are quite active in working with yourself directly in other areas of your life. Why not this category? I’m not pushing you btw. I truly am just being curious and trying to understand your mindset…that’s all.

I release ALL things to God. Good, bad, ugly. I write copious amounts every day, just spilling my gut to Him. How do you think my mind towards motherhood shifted in the space of 4 days? Nothing changes that fast when i work on it by my own strength and wisdom. My relationship to my motherhood is FAR MORE important matter than my relationship to Indians and Ethiopians. For all i know, my shift towards my motherhood, may have already altered some of my relationship to Indians and Ethiopians. I’ll find out when i run into one of them. Till then, i’m not wasting any time or energy on them.

My point being, we ALL are influenced by where our parents and grandparents came from what they experienced combined with our own attachment traumas that occur most between the ages of birth to 2 years old.

Yes, i know this. It was quite fascinating to me when i learned of it, and it helped me let go of a lot of things that i had absorbed from those around me, because i could tell it wasn’t mine.

Here’s why my ‘heritage’ is different from other Indians — it started with my grandfather. He decided he was as much a man as the British under whose rule he was. He decided this belief was worth losing his life for. He’s from a lower caste and not seen as an ‘equal’ by 75% of the Indians around him. Where did this idea of equality come from? who knows? But it altered his way of thinking and relating. He stood up to CENTURIES of conditioning that he, is a lesser man because of his caste. He stood against the ENTIRE INDIAN CULTURE. THe white Australian man under whom he worked, respected his stand, saw him as an equal, and they became best friends. My Grandfather, left his Indian life behind, to go to Australia with his friend. Unfortunately, his friend died enroute, and he returned to Indian, got married and never left India again.

OF the 7 kids he had – my father was the one who inherited his ‘all men are equal’ mindset. And dad wanted to leave India, to explore the world. He would’ve loved to go to Australia, but that didn’t work out for him. Dad made friends with men from all walks of life, from all cultures and heritages, and he raised us differently than other Indian kids were being raised. The others were always surrounded by people of their own culture, so even though they lived outside of India, they never distanced themselves from the Indian way of life. Dad wasn’t that attached to the Indian way of life.

SO – i was exposed to different ways of life, from a much younger age than my Dad was. I was 7 when i fell in the love with the US and the American people. The values and mindsets of Americans was growing in me alongside the things i inherited from my dad and grandad — which was already diluted Indian-ness. To add to the distancing from my heritage – was my own hatred towards it – and consequent rejection of EVERYTHING about it – something my Dad never did.

My body, mind and heart is the battleground on which values from around the world clashed. I passed on to my children the things that i valued. I passed on to my children that all men are equal, that no human being is superior or inferior to the other. Guess what? They are able to relate to all people with an openness in a way that i never will. They can see the good in Indians and Ethiopians that i cannot see. They are also able to see beyond a person’s appearances and see a person as they are. They are not more open to one race than another, or to men more than women. They also don’t care what others think about them! I think i did a good job. lol 🙂 So, i really don’t care about the prejudices in me. I’ve done what most people aren’t able to do – i’ve kept my prejudices to myself and not even influenced my own children with them!

I’m also not ashamed of my own battle scars. I’m blind to whatever is good in Indians & Ethiopians & women, because of my experiences with them. But not as much as i used to be. It will heal when it does. God will lead me to it at the right time – just as he led me to the Catholic church, where he could dig up my marriage wounds, which i thought had healed. That marriage wound, was deeper and more poisonous than the motherhood-wound that he just healed. He knows the sequence of things and also which ones are more urgent than others to deal with. I would never have picked ‘marriage-wound’ because i didn’t even know it existed! That’s my thought process with how i work with God. I let him show me what i need to work on. The thing that i need to work on reveals itself to me in how much it affects my emotions and thoughts and feelings. My relationship to Indians&Ethiopians, doesn’t stir up ANYTHING in me. That’s how i know, i don’t need to work on it right now.

~~ vino

[Vino]

Really interesting example you shared, as i was just telling someone how i see myself as an empty vessel that needs to get filled up with God’s Living Water every day! lol 🙂 Mud analogy works fine. But since my source of water is God, and he’s limitless, the Waters eventually dilute and wash my mud away, as long as i keep releasing it all to him.

Here’s an example of the difficulty caused by the question “Are You Indian” or “where are you from?” btw – it’s ‘dumb’ to ME because i cannot answer it when a clean answer. The question itself, is innocent and a curious question, and i’ve asked similar questions too. I try to connect it to something other than appearance though – usually their name – so i’d say – i haven’t heard that name before, what are it’s origins? Or – that sounds like an Irish name! IS it?

Anyway — there’s this book i read a long time ago, “Hope’s Boy” – by Andrew Bridges. He was in foster care from age 4. His mother was a drug addict, but he truly DID feel that she loved him. He was noticed and loved by one other person – his 3rd grade teacher. Other than that, his life was terrible. But memories of his mother, and his connection with that teacher, helped him succeed in his studies, and he eventually became a lawyer and works with kids in foster care. SO – he dreaded the start of every school year. Especially the early years in elementary school, when your teachers ask you ‘dumb’ questions – which are in truth, innocent and curious — but he COULD NOT Answer them, because he didn’t know HOW.

The hardest question: “How may siblings do you have?” he coudln’t put down a number. Who counts as a sibling? Are the other foster kids in the home my siblings? What about the kids of the foster parents? He couldn’t say he was an only child, because he wasn’t the only child in the house.

This was the first time i had considered how difficult and confusing it can be, to answer a simple question! Of course, i’m no longer a child. And he can also easily answer it now, as he’s not living in a house full of other kids. It’s also one of those terrible situations where you cannot blame the person asking you this question because they haven’t done anything wrong. It’s just like my mom and how she raised me. I suffered from it, but i cannot blame her because she wasn’t intentionally out to destroy my life!

This is one of those situations in which i bear have to bear the pain alone, and figure out how to get over it alone. So, i’ll always be making mud. And God will always be washing me clean. For that reason, i’m not concerned about the feelings that well up within me, in various situations. So, at some point in my life, i might be able to respond to that Indian woman in a charitable way. Or i might even question her and ask her what kind of a life this slave would live with her? That way i’d know for sure what her thoughts are, before i judge her.

So to have someone from another part of the world is interesting to us, because although we can’t go there, a person who has been there is right in front of us and it makes us curious. I know that is just 1 perspective and there are many other reasons why people ask, but you get to represent another part of the world that many of us have only seen on tv. Personally, I don’t feel cultured or worldly, so when someone from another culture crosses my path, I want to feel that energy, that mindset, that difference.

And this is EXACTLY why i cannot tell you that I’m an Indian, because the world i show you, will be my own. It won’t be Indian AT ALL! There isn’t going to be ANYTHING in it that even remotely resembles anything you’ve seen on tv. Or that you’ve seen from another Indian. I wouldn’t be introducing you to ‘Indian energy and mindset’. And if i’m the only Indian you ever get to meet, i don’t want you to think that every Indian you meet is going to be like me!

This is why it’s important for me to not be identified as an Indian, so i will never give a short answer to that question. People think there’s something Indian in me because i’m originally from there, and i feel like i’m being put in a box by that mentality. That includes other Indians who ask me if i’m indian. They think i’m in the same box as they’re in.

I’ve only ever been proud of being an American. As an American, i feel free to be ME. I know i’ve been shaped by all of my experiences, including my heritage, but it’s not a part of me. No more than the waters and winds that eroded the Grand Canyon are a part of it.

And if you meant to attach the article you keep mentioning — you forgot again. lol 🙂

~~ vino

[Vino]

My goal however, is to let every bit of that energy go with each person so that the next rich, white person doesn’t have me placing my own baggage from the last person onto them. My goal is to always give each and every person a clean slate.

Yeah, i try to do that too. When i was working at the store, i noticed my negative reactions to people asking me if i was Indian. It was a stronger negative if it was another Indian person who asked me that question. So, i tried to understand what was going on. Only thing i could think of was that i didn’t like being looked at as a person in an Indian box, because, other than my external appearance, which i cannot change, there is absolutely NOTHING Indian about me. So, I would respond with a “no, i’m American.” and then they’d say – “No – where are you ORIGINALLY From?” and i’d start to get annoyed. Because i grew up in TWO countries, and don’t consider myself as belonging to either, so it is irrelevant to me where i came from. If i was in a good mood, i’d engage, if not, it was really hard for me to not get snarky, so i would try to get out of the situation. What i TRULY wanted to say to persistent people was: What difference does it make where i originally came from? I’m here because i love it here, and i’m never going back because i hated it there.

Anyway – i tried to re-frame it as people being friendly and not knowing how to ask any intelligent questions, and therefore they ask dumb ones like where you’re originally from. But, i still had a hard time being charitable to Indians. One day, this snooty rich Indian woman who was buying expensive beads asked me if i was Indian and all my hackles raised. I told myself to calm down and pretend she was being friendly, so i just said a quick ‘yes’, because i didn’t want to engage. But she did. She asked me if i had any relatives who were trying to come the US, because she could help me get a visa for them, because she had a family member who needed 24/7 care and she wanted them to be taken care of by an Indian. She didn’t say ‘slave’ but i knew that’s what she was looking for. Someone being brought here for the sole reason of having to take care of someone else?

She lit my rage and it was all i could do to not go into war to free her Indian slaves.

Anyway. I can sense a glazed mind from miles away. I can even sense it online without ever meeting a person. I had to step back and make room to let a cousin into my life – i’d commented on one of my cousin’s post about her dad (my dad’s big brother) and he sent me a message saying: “Are you really his neice?!” and i had 2 hrs worth of snarky responses to sort through. I chose the mildest of them. and we got acquainted. We agree on many things, but, i still sense that Indian thing in him that is off-putting to me. I know it’s in me too, because, that’s why i recognize it so fast. However, it’s a thing in me that i’m trying to get rid of, and they are not trying to get rid of it because they don’t even know it’s on them. Or maybe they do know, and they like it. i don’t know. whatever it is, we don’t see it the same way and i don’t have the space to deal with it.

Maybe next, if you feel like, you can explore the archetype of mother. Here is an article about the mother Archetype from a Jungian perspective. Not sure if it will resonate with you, but there are a ton of other things to explore if you just type in mother archetype.

did you mean to attach the article? i may have come across it. I know i’ve read about different female archetypes before. I might be curious to read it, but i’m not going to let anybody’s defintion of anything influence me anymore. i’m tired of valuing everyone else’s viewpoints and shelving my own all my life. I’ve given others way too much power, for way too long!

IF anyone wants to engage in conversations with me, we have to start with defining the things we’re talking about like woman, mother, indian, etc. If we can’t agree upon the least common denominator as a definition, then a discussion isn’t possible. I tried to define ‘Indian’ so i can answer the question: “are you an Indian?” and that’s when i realized that we’d have to define an Indian. If an Indian is someone who is a citizen of India, then i am not an Indian. If an Indian is a person who has brown skin and black hair, then i am Indian, and so are most Ethiopians (except their hair is super curly – so that makes them not Indian). lol 🙂 If an Indian is someone who does culturally Indian things, then i’m not an Indian. See how messed up it gets, depending on the definition?! So, when someone asks me if I’m Indian, i have no clue what they’re asking me!

Anyway. my body is bleeding to death and i’m exhausted. i can’t focus on the things i need to do. and learn.

~~ vino

[Vino]

Fair enough. You know what you want and this is what you want to experience right now. I will stop poking holes in your thought process and am happy to support you in this direction.

I actually, don’t mind at all, being poked about my relationships with men. That is an untested area. I was getting tired of being poked in the area of my relationships with women/Indians and Ethiopians – because that IS a tested area.

You seemed to have no trouble understanding how i handled that woman who wasn’t able to honor my beliefs and experiences. IN fact, as i wrote that story, i wasn’t sure how you’d react to how i handled her. So, i was completely surprised by your response.

The way i’ve been treated by the vast majority of women/indians/ethiopians – is EXACTLY The same as this woman did! It isn’t about religious beliefs with everyone, of course, it’s different areas of life. But my experience has been identical, for example – when i talk with someone who is more liberal, they have no qualms about ripping to shreds the values that i hold dear, and then – how can i continue to speak to them? There is NO mutual respect!

There is also NO INTEREST, in trying to understand WHY i see things differently. Their eyes glaze over, and they just want to talk about what THEY see.

All I am inviting you into is exploring the energy/stories/judgments/thoughts/beliefs/criticisms you have towards these 3 groups in particular.

The ENERGY that i am blocking from entering into my life is the exact same energy of that old woman! So, yeah, i give everybody a chance. Most of them don’t make it past the threshold. I just happened to notice that the majority of those who fail, happen to be women, indians and ethiopians. It could be because they approach me with some preconceived notions of what i should be based on my appearances. And i despise being put into a box.

On that note — i’ve had a major breakthrough regarding my issues with motherhood!

It started Saturday, when i was feeling like there is nothing about Life that feels like a gift. I confessed that feeling to my priest, and he told me to check out two local organizations for helping women with unplanned pregnancies. I had zero interest, but i had to do due diligence so i could be at peace with myself, so i checked out their websites and looked at their volunteering opportunities. One of the organizations aims to provide housing for pregnant woman who find themselves without homes for any reason. They had videos of some of the mothers and babies that they have helped over the years. AS i watched the videos of pregnant women, young mothers and babies, EVERY CELL in my body was screaming NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!

And i was mad at my priest for suggesting TWO charities of the same kind – why didn’t he tell me to go to People to People or something? BUT — i also paused – and wondered why i was reacting so strongly against pregnancy and babies. I was convinced, that it’s because i totally hated all things related to motherhood, and i’m totally happy my kids are no longer in diapers, and i don’t EVER, EVER, EVER want to suffer those early years again.

I’ll spare you the next 3 days of thoughts. Yesterday, a chink began to appear in my negativity towards motherhood. I remembered how God changed my view of marriage when i started going through the annulment process. I had written off marriage as a stupid thing that’s totally unnecessary. The annulment questions tore open all the marriage wounds and convinced me marriage was a sham. And then – the unexpected had happened — i had started to find videos and teachings about GOD’s view of marriage and what HE had meant for it to be — and I totally fell in love with HIS picture of marriage! So, i asked God to show me how he sees motherhood.

I wasn’t expecting Him to answer today. I thought i’d have to find articles and videos about motherhood. But i found the answer in a prayer from this morning. A single line jumped out at me: “May we hold fast to your teaching and express it in what we do.” it reminded me of something i’d heard in some video or podcast or article – about the invisible being made visible — and then the leaps and connections were HUGE!!! The meditations talked about how Jesus put himself into the hands of people, and allowed them to do with him whatever they willed – as a baby, he was in the hands of Mary and Joseph. AS a man, he put himself in the hands of his disciples, and fell asleep in their boat, trusting in their ability to handle the storms. And at the end of his life, he put himself into the hands of the authorities, and of course, they killed him. Those were the thoughts from the mediations — but i connected it to EVERYONE in my life — some put themselves in my hands voluntarily, like Jesus and JB. Others – like my children, are placed in my hands through no choice of their own.

The way i treat each person who is placed in my hands, brings out the hidden things in my heart! The invisible becomes visible in the way we treat each other. Our Inner Heart becomes visible. The uniqueness of babies is that they come to you with 100% pure trust. The greatest gift than anyone can give to anyone else. I had made it my mission, to honor that trust, and to never give them reason to lose their trust in me, because i recognized the value and fragility of that trust. I made mistakes – i didn’t know how to teach them how to behave, without breaking trust. SO – i made choices. I chose to let them go wild, in hopes that i could continue to strengthen trust, and that i could gain their cooperation through trust, rather than bribes and rules.

In all these years, I judged myself as not a mother, because the way i ‘mothered’ did not match what other successful mothers have done. I judged myself by their boxes and couldn’t find a single box similar to mine that also belonged to a mother, so i labeled myself a ‘big sister’ and assumed i wasn’t cut out to be a mother. So, today, i defined ‘mother’. The bare minimum. And it was simple – a person who gets pregnant becomes a mother. An animal that gets pregnant is also a mother! SO then — what else do i need to do in order to be a mother? Nothing really — give birth? ok. that’s also basic, and happens automatically.

What else is needed to become a mother? NOTHING!! ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! Everything that i do afterwards depends on whether i want to do it or not. And based on whether it’s good for the baby or not, people would label me as a ‘good mother’ or a ‘bad mother’. BUT — they are using THEIR OWN definitions of what is good and bad! SO — i wasn’t a good mother by my mom’s books. The health care people thought i was a bad mother becuase i only took the kids to a doctor when they were sick, and since they never got sick, they hadn’t seen a doctor for years after all their childhood immuniazations were done! I wasn’t a good mother by the standards of the elementary schools, because i didn’t care how many days my kids were absent. (I lived in fear of CPS taking my kids away!) BUT – there are more important things i life than going to school!

Unfortunately, i had to live by at least some of the rules around me in order to keep CPS away. The thing i judged myself by was my attitude towards other children. I used to love playing with kids and babysitting when i was a teenager. When i had my own kids, i completely lost interest in everybody else’s child. It’s like i became exclusive. i don’t have any mothering instincts towards my nieces and nephews either! So, i examined my relationship with my children.

I became a mother to them when i conceived and gave birth to them. Which part of being a mother to them did i hate so much? Guess what i found — ABSOLUTELY NOTHING! i enjoyed my pregnancies because it was SO FASCINATING to watch how my body changed. I enjoyed my morning sickness too, because that too, was an amusing change! My cravings, the kind of things that made me want to throw up – everything was so intriguing! i also LOVED reading the maternity books to see how big my babies were and each month they had a nickname based on the size that they were.

And when they were born – of course, i’d fallen in love with them! it made no difference how stressed out i was, i never got a baby sitter for them, becuase i didn’t want to miss out on a single cute thing that they did. I didn’t take a million pictures or make scrapbooks or write down memories. — i just sat with them, played with them, discovered life with them, and absorbed their babiness, because i knew it would all be gone soon. I had no eyes for any other baby, because these two were mine, and they were better than all other babies.

Today, i appologized to my children for always saying that i hated being a mother. I told them i had been judging myself by the definiions of others, but i was not anybody else’s mother – i was just THEIR mother, and i had DEEPLY ENJOYED them from the time they were the size of two half cells! My older one was surprised – he said: “Really? I thought pregnancy is the hardest part!” and i said no! i loved every moment! So, i told my children, that they are no longer motherless and they laughed at me, but the older one also thanked me, and the younger one – was in a generally more uplifted frame of mind, and i could sense it. There’s a question my younger one would often pop at me — most likely after reading that kids book. She’d randomly come to me and ask if i was her mother. And sometimes i’d say yes, sometimes, i’d make up a silly answer. It was just a game. But today, i told her i truly was her mother. and i think she sensed the difference in my response. I wonder if all those previous years, were a game like i thought? Or if they were truly a question from her heart?

Whatever the case may be – my kids are officially, no longer motherless. lol 🙂 And i am F”in PROUD of breaking every mother-mold that has ever been thrown at me!

God gave me my children, and this thing called motherhood – as a gift. A space within which my hidden heart could be safe and free! With my children, i could be ME. They never judged me. I’d always thought that becoming a mother erased ME. But it did the exact opposite! it FREED me! My two children were the very first people in front of whom i didn’t need to pretend at all. What a PHENOMINAL gift! I thought i had to put my life on hold till the kids didn’t need me anymore, but, wow – this is my best life! I don’t have to have ‘mothering instincts’ towards ANYONE other than my own two children. Gosh, what a burden to bear! NOBODY else grew in my body, so i don’t have to mother anyone else!

i remembered a young college girl who was working at the store temporarily. She was suffering from severe anxiety and i tried to help her. One day she thanked me and said i was like a mother to her. The rage that reared up in me was so intense that i was afraid i’d say something that would make her disintegrate! I couldn’t help her anymore. I am very exclusive to my kids. lol 🙂 No more apologies for not caring about other people’s kids.

OMG! i’ve never felt so liberated in my entire life! 🙂 This is going to be great! I’m going to be telling my kids every day now, that i am their mother. lol 🙂 and that i love being their mtoher! 🙂

~~ vino.

[Vino]

i had an interesting experience with a lady i met on the FB group for the course i signed up for – creating a course from your story. She’s almost 70, and she’s worked through a LOT, and she’d posted saying she was having a hard time writing down her story. There was something about the way she said it, that made me leave a comment on her post and she contacted me, and we had two zoom chats, and she was excited about something. She had this thought that we could help each other somehow – that she could do stuff for me, in exchange for me helping her tell her story. I’m not exactly sure what all she had in mind. She is a professional graphics designer and knows how to build websites and stuff, and she wanted to help me get my blog up and running, started designing a logo for me, and all kinds of stuff that i hadn’t asked her for any kind of help with.

Anyway. In the back of my mind, i was getting a bit stressed, because creating a logo is not a priority for me right now, and she was making designs and asking for feedback, etc. and i just wanted to tell her to lay off. But she’s an old woman, and she was excited, so i let it go.

A few nights back, i was rather down, and she called, we had a chat, and she actually helped me focus a bit. And i messaged her on fb again later, and we messaged back and forth for a bit. the topic of church came up, and she said she hates religion, and especially Catholics. I wasn’t surprised, that seems to be a common sentiment, so i assumed she’d had some bad experiences with Catholics, and i told her i was sorry and said i’d actually found more healing in the Catholic church than anywhere else. And she responds with “yuk, yuk”.

I thought that was an interesting response. and she said there was too much guilt and she’d had enough of that. I totally understood that, because that’s a common struggle. So, i shared how much of my guilt and shame i’ve gotten rid of since i started being raw and honest before God, and she said: “Ick!” She said she like chipmunks and dragonflies, and nature was good enough for her. And i told her, yes! Nature is Awesome. And i see all of nature as God’s gift to me, to enjoy to my heart’s content! And she says: “Blah”.

Anyway – she said she can’t talk religion, so we stopped talking. Some hours later she sent me something to look at, which i didn’t have the energy to look at and she kept messaged me to ask what i thought of it, so i told her i’d look at it another time and it was getting late. (it was past 10pm). Next morning, i thought about our conversation, and i honestly couldn’t wrap my mind around it. I wasn’t angry. I wasn’t offended. I was thoroughly confused. I respect the experiences of others, no matter if it matches mine or is contrary to mine. I just wasn’t sure how to relate to her anymore, when she was just so disrespectful and contemptuous towards something that is the very core of my being.

I could’ve continued having conversations with her, and ignored the whole thing, because it didn’t bother me at all. However, i knew i’d never be sharing anything of substance with her anymore. So, what’s the point of working together on each other’s stories? I felt it would be one-sided. She’d be free to throw up all over the place, because i’m excessively tolerant, and the things i value will never be honored by her. So, i told her i was confused by her contempt. She said she apologizes is if she’s offended me, but she thinks religion is disgusting, etc etc, and she said – i’m not judging you, just religion.

I told her she’s free to feel whatever she wants to feel. And she assumed i was going to say: ‘but not free to express her feelings honestly’. I told her – she can express herself too, but it would have to be respectfully and without contempt and disgust. Because i don’t know how to talk to her when she’s ripping up a part of my heart. I told her it was the same as me telling her how disgusting and gross her husband was while insisting i wasn’t judging her but him.

She said she was tired of being judged by people she was trying to help. I told her i feel the same way. And she blocked me.

Well. that’s my most recent experience with a woman who wants to help others with her life story like i do. She was starting to stress me out in subtle ways that i couldn’t pinpoint. Her desire to help me was genuine and her interest in me was also genuine. But there was something unsettling that i wasn’t able to figure out. i think she wanted more than what i was willing to give, but i wasn’t sure what it was that she wanted. Anyway. I’m glad it’s over!

~~ vino

[Vino]

If there is a wall, there is fear. It’s impossible to have 1 without the other. Just because you do not consciously FEEL the fear, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I’m saying there IS fear, just by the simple fact you have an instant wall that goes up around these 3 groups of people. Why not live your life with an open heart to EVERYONE until they prove to you they are not a safe person?

i wasn’t going to say more about this, but i remembered something. Some months back, perhaps it was a year back, i don’t remember, i gave away $500 to a man and his family, who fall into the category of these people that i am living in terror of, according to you. He promised he would pay me back twice what he borrowed because that’s the way his culture shows gratitude. I couldn’t have cared less. I did not give him my money because i was expecting twice the amount back. I did not give him my money because i believed his story. I also did not give him my money because i was rolling around in wealth at that time and wouldn’t miss $500. I gave him my money on the fraction of a chance that his story MIGHT be true and that they TRULY needed help, even though there wasn’t a single sign that he was telling me the truth.

I never heard back from him. I wasn’t surprised. I’d given him a chance to prove himself and he failed. I took the loss. But i was already prepared to take the loss. So it didn’t bother me. But the choice was mine – if i hadn’t been willing to take the loss, i wouldn’t have allowed him to swindle me.

Well, it just so happens that in the realm of relationships, i’ve decided i’m no longer willing to get swindled. I am not living in fear of these people. i just have no desire to be drained by them.

The WALL between them in me is not of fear but of RESPECT. IF there is no mutual respect, there can be NO relationship. I’m not lowering my wall of self-respect, just so they can get close to me. There are many ways to find out if someone respects you. The simplest is in an exchange of thoughts and ideas. If i an unable to freely express my own because they are SO attached to their own, that they aren’t even slightly willing to accept that other points of view are legit – i don’t have time for them.

As i mentioned in my previous post – my thoughts, ideas, interests, were always devalued in some way – MOST OFTEN by Indians, Ethiopians, etc.

Here’s another thing i thought of while we were in the store today:

i think it explains why i don’t care for deep relationships with women. Say i have a dozen red shirts and you have a dozen red shirts. All EXACTLY the same. Would i be interested in trading with you? no. We’ve got nothing of value to add to each other’s collection. What if you have a grey shirt and want one of my red shirts, but i don’t want a grey shirt? I’d give you one of my red shirts, but i wouldn’t take your grey shirt because it is of no value to me. To me, it would be clutter and i would treat it as such. it would be disrespectful of me to take your grey shirt and toss it in the trash. however, if i didn’t do that, in order to not be disrespectful to you, i would have added a burden to myself and i’d be carrying a shirt that i do not want, just to keep from disrespecting you. So, you could either take the red shirt for free, or just not trade with me. Either ways, there is still not an equal give and take, so it’s a limited relationship. The only time there’s a mutually beneficial relationship is if you have something that i want and i have something you want and we are both fully satisfied with our exchange.

I’m not closed to a deeper relationship with women. But i have gained very little from my relationships with women. So, unless i’m feeling particularly generous or have an infinite supply of myself to toss around, i do not find it worthwhile to invest in my relationships with women, beyond a certain depth. Just like money – whatever i put out, i have to be prepared to lose it, because there’s no guarantee i’ll get it back. And i have the right to choose who i want to invest myself in. And i honestly don’t care if i don’t give everyone an equal chance to prove themselves to me. EVERY interaction is a potential for pain. Some people are worth the pain and some aren’t. I’ve decided that only 3 people are worth the pain in my life. So that means i’ve closed my door to EVERYONE in the world, except three. It’s not just women or Indians or Ethiopians. It’s EVERYONE, except three.

God is the source of unconditional love, not me. last time i checked, i’m not God.

~~ vino

[Vino]

If there is a wall, there is fear. It’s impossible to have 1 without the other. Just because you do not consciously FEEL the fear, doesn’t mean it isn’t there. I’m saying there IS fear, just by the simple fact you have an instant wall that goes up around these 3 groups of people. Why not live your life with an open heart to EVERYONE until they prove to you they are not a safe person? Maybe that is not the kind of person you want to be in this world. I don’t know.

Ok. Wall = Fear to you. But it isn’t to me. If it is one of those Absolute Truth things like Everyone is worthy, then i’ll discover it for myself someday.

Everybody is welcome into my Acquaintance level. BUT – i DO NOT have the time or the desire to go around filling up my Acquaintace zone, because i simply DO NOT have that much time and energy for building new relationship. Relationships take a LOT out of me, because i take them seriously, even a simple friendship. Anyone who wants to be friends with me, has to put in effort to build a friendship with me. I am NEVER going to invest in one-way relationships ever again. I value myself more than that, and my time too. In my ENTIRE LIFE – other than my nursing school friend Reeta, there hasn’t been a SINGLE OTHER INDIAN who saw any reason to invest in getting to know me better. Reeta has a place in my heart.

I feel like i have said something similar before so i’ll stop. i’m tired of explaining myself to you. I have the right, just as anybody else, to have a preference for the kind of people i fill my life with. i am NOT OPEN to people who impoverish me.

Where I am poking holes is…with women in particular, it goes beyond just defending…you shame and judge them. Because there is an inherent lack of trust and distaste towards women, which is full of fear and judgment, your goal to “defend” men, the voiceless in your mind, turns into making women bad and wrong in the process and this is the part I am poking at. Make sense?

No. doesn’t make sense. I do not speak ill of women who treat others with respect and dignity.

Do you really think JB cares? I mean, why is it selling his friendship by being physical with another man? If it is, then your friendship is pretty fragile or he actually does have romantic feelings for you but is not willing to actually do anything about it.

It doesn’t matter to me if he cares or not, this has nothing to do with him! It has to do with the kind of men i’m open to in my life.

Anyway – FM isn’t interested in getting to know me as a person. Thinking back to before i met JB – i was under the impression that if a man found me physically attractive, then i’d be able to build a relationship with him. So, that is what i got to test out with FM, and that’s why i agreed to a second date – i wanted to get to know him better to discover if we had anything in common. However, he wasn’t interested in conversations. He was more interested in getting more of what happened spontaneously the first time, and that’s the ONLY reason he asked me out a second time.

So the only thing i’d be getting with FM would be some physical fun, and that seems cheap to me. With JB, i have a solid friendship, and no physical connection. I don’t want to have a different man in my life to meet every different needs. That’s just too stressful. I have to maintain as many relationships as i have needs, and who has the time and energy to do that?! So, everything that has to do with a relationship, has to come from one man – spiritual connection, mental, emotional and physical. there’s only 1 missing with JB.

and since the 3 things that i DO have with JB have gotten quite deep, i don’t have the desire to get to know another man at this time. In other words, i don’t even have my friendship to offer to another man. Getting to know a person takes effort and energy, and i find that i am unable to create a connection with just curiosity about another person. There has to be a genuine interest and desire to know the person, behind my curiosity. Otherwise, i am wasting my time, and also the man’s time.

Just something to consider…could it be possible that JB is a really good reason for you not to risk loving again?

Actually, learning to love JB is the biggest risk i’ve ever taken. I get to test out how much love am i truly capable of putting out, if there is no return? I can’t think of a bigger risk than that.

I mean…isn’t it possible that there is another man who can offer a deep friendship, AND make passionate love to you, AND open his heart fully and completely to you, AND make you feel like you are the most treasured, valuable person in his life?

yes, it is entirely possible that there is such a man. I will know when i find him, from his genuine interest in getting to know me as a person and he won’t get distracted by spontaneous physical fireworks. In fact, physical fireworks should make him MORE interested in getting to know me as a person. But i’m not going to go in search of him, because that is a waste of my time.

By committing your heart to JB, you are saying no to this potential…which is what you REALLY want.

For now, yes. I need to see where it goes. Every time i get frustrated, it’s because i feel like it’s not going anywhere. And then something happens to jostle it again, and it goes deeper. I’ve never had any relationship survive any kind of stress before. So, this is a totally new experience for me. I’ve never understood it when people tell me that the conflicts they’ve had made their relationships stronger. We don’t exactly have conflicts, because we are very respectful of each other, however every once in a while, we do or say something really stupid and thoughtless and we hurt each other. Some weeks ago, i was sharing something with JB and he read things wrong and responded in a way that hurt me. The next morning, he wrote to me first, and said he’d been really tired and hadn’t thought about what he was saying. Instead of accepting that as an apology i simply told him his words had hurt me deeply. And he apologized. We seem to have a high tolerance for each others’ lapse in judgement.

There are many, many, many other reasons why i value his friendship, and each of those reasons are unique, and i have never experienced them before in any other relationship. So, i have to see how far it goes. I’m glad i went off on a tangent with FM because it has renewed my commitment to JB!
~~ vino

[Vino]

The level of shame and embarrassment you felt would me more appropriate if you got caught naked and cheating in your marriage or something – or got caught in a big lie – with the level of shame and embarrassment you felt, you would think you did something MAJORLY OFFENSIVE and hurtful to someone.

EXACTLY!!! i think my Shame Wound opened up, and all the shame i’ve felt from the time i was a child poured out. In fact, i remember trying to analyze the nature of the shame while in the midst of it, and i specifically noticed that i was feeling like i had cheated on him and humiliated in him in public. Which i knew was a TOTAL LIE!!! But i couldn’t shake it off till he responded to me in the way he did.

I do remember ONE other incident that was a major shame and embarrassment to me – it involved my monk friend. I was totally reveling in the attention he was giving me, and was completely consumed with a crush on him — which i told him about, because it would rear it’s ugly head and get in the way of our interactions – so i kept my feelings open before him. HOWEVER — i was on an orthodox forum and came across a post in which this woman was expressing her desires for a priest and although there are married orthodox priests, they have to get married before they become priests. They aren’t allowed to get married after. And if they’re widowed, they cannot remarry. SO – this woman was very concerned about this priest and was convinced that he needed her in his life so she could be the kind of support that he needed and she was being a total pain to him. I responded to her – and told her she was being really short-sighted and selfish, and if she truly loved him she wouldn’t do anything to make him dishonor the vows he’d taken. I could’ve stopped there, but no – i went on to share with her how i knew where she was coming from because i was head-over-heals with a monk! But i know not to act on it. I wish it was a post as short as what i just wrote! Fr M saw my post. It embarrassed And Humiliated him. I’d placed enough details in my post that IF anyone who know him saw it, they’d know i was talking about him. The ex also saw the post, and he told me it would embarrass Fr M if he saw it, and told me to get it removed – which i did. Fr M didn’t say anything to me for a month and then he mentioned it casually and i was mortified. I asked him why he hadn’t said anything right away, and he said he knew i’d be extremely embarrassed and humiliated if he said anything, so he let it go, but he wanted to eventually give me the opportunity to come clean with him, so i could TRULY get over it.

AS much as i appreciated he way he handled it and the kindness he treated me with, i was buried in shame and i kept a copy of what i’d written and would re-read it every so often to see if the shame was gone – and it never left. Till years later. SO, i can see how some of those feelings came up again, even though what i shared with JB was super private and extremely small compared to what i did to FrM.

Anyway — the reason what i said to JB was wrong is because of HOW i said it, not because of the content of what i said. I told him i didn’t care what his thoughts and feelings were on the matter, but i wanted to touch him and be touched by him, because i wanted to know how it felt. And he could only say no if i was gross to him (which i know full well that i’m not! so it was a fake exit). He couldn’t say NO without also saying i was gross to him. So he was forced to say yes. But that wasn’t the only reason he said yes. It’s also because he trusts and respects me SO Much that he doesn’t question me at all. No matter the nature of the thing i throw at him, he takes it seriously. The other day i was looking at some of the old pictures of him that he’d sent and realized i hadn’t seen a picture of him for a while, so i told him to send me some new pix because i was bored of the old ones. He had no idea what i meant, and replied with a question mark, BUT he also followed up with several pictures of what’s going on in his life, and asked if these pix were ones i’d seen before or not.

This is what made me feel so much shame and guilt. I felt i was taking advantage of his receptiveness towards me for my own selfish experimentation. I don’t know why JB was able to ‘re-instate’ me in a way that Fr M couldn’t. But, later that day, he continued the conversation with me and brought up his own shame and how it cripples him and since he’d just helped remove MY Shame, it was easy to point out that God does the same for us and in a deeper, better way! IF it had been a situation in which he’d offended ME and i’d had to forgive him, he wouldn’t have been able to see how easy it is to forgive someone you love and restore their dignity. So, i’m glad it happened. Both for him, and for me!

They absolutely can be all consuming and carry an incredibly strong judging energy. For those feelings to really anchor into a system, it takes a pretty strong story to attach yourself to. Have you explored the origin of your shame?

this didn’t require any exploration. lol 🙂 The entire indian culture is built on shame and guilt. That’s the way they control each other! Both men and women use guilt and shame to control each other. Add a stressed out mother to the standard mode of opperation, and you have a situation in which every single interaction between a mother and her daughter is filled with the mother’s effort to instill shame and guilt in her daughter so her daughter will obey – not because the mother knows better and the daughter is being a fool – but in order to not embarrass and humiliate the family in public. There wasn’t anything my mom asked me to with the explanation that it was for MY GOOD. It was always about everyone else. But that’s how the entire cultural mindset is. You are born into a life of obligations and responsibilities and expectations. There is NOTHING in it for you. Of course, they invest in your physical wellbeing and you education, because they’re obligated to, and you’re supposed to return the favor – but it’s so devaluing of the individual.

And since i was exposed to the whole world, and not just one culture, and i was curious and read a lot and made friends from around the world – it was harder and harder for her to control me. My brain was always exploring ideas and thoughts and interests, which were constantly dismissed as foolish, or fantasy, or childish, or irresponsible or some other thing that was annoying and irritating at best and pure disrespectful & hateful at worst.

Cutting myself off from the Indian mindset and culture was my fight to freedom. there’s nothing wrong with obligations and responsibilities – in fact they are necessary for living a well-rounded life. But one has to be free to choose the obligations and responsibilities they want to shoulder. (besides the really basic ones like respecting other people’s lives and belongings. Nobody has the right to destroy another person’s life or property.)

anyway.

About the man from the other night. He convinced me to go on a date with him again tonight. He promised no hotel rooms. lol 🙂

I found myself unable to say no to him, the minute he touched me. He was dropping me off, and he asked if he could kiss me goodnight. I said, no – but we could hug. So i went in for a hug. Then, when i was drawing back, he put his hand to my face. And all my buttons deactivated. It felt SO, SO, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO good, and i felt myself literally melting. So he asked me again if he could kiss me, and i said yes. And he drove off to an empty parking lot and we spent about a half hour in his car and he suggested getting a room, and i refused. But. oh his hands. it wasn’t just that i enjoyed the way he touched me, but i felt myself wanting to touch him too, and i couldn’t figure out WHY. he was practically a stranger. I didn’t even know his last name! I felt zero guilt and shame. And yet, this was clearly against the way i’d been brought up.

I’ve figured out part of the reason that i feel no guilt and shame. It’s because i was overwhelmed and my emotions shut off. I’m still numb actually. The only thing i was able to feel was guilt and shame in my interaction with JB! this actually have me an excellent situation to examine things. And i’ve discovered the difference between feeling peaceful and feeling numb. But appear to be the same on the surface, however, in a peaceful state, your emotions are fully active, but you are in full control (or fully at peace with all the emotions even if they are out of control). With numbness, it appears you’re in control, but you’re not – because you can’t handle ANY emotion, and that’s why you’ve blocked them. I wasn’t prepared for how my body responded, so i shut off. I didn’t realize i had shut off because i was so connected to how my body was feeling – i kept looking for the slightest feeling of discomfort or unwillingness, but my body was all in. I’ve never been in a situation in which my body drove such a decision. there was no logic. No thoughts of anything. Just – this feels good, and i want more. I think i turned into an animal. lol 🙂

Anyway – FM (i found out his last name last night!) can’t stop asking me out. So i’ve been searching for logical reasons to say no to him. And there aren’t any, except on tiny one, which i thought he’d think was silly and laugh at me for it. But he didn’t. I’ve never hidden anything from my kids and i couldn’t think of what to tell them, because i rarely ever go out and this would be the second time this week. After he made several suggestions of what i could tell them, he finally asked – would it really be bad to tell them that you’re going on a date? since you’re always honest before them, why not tell them the truth? I couldn’t escape the logic of his solution! and i don’t know why i didn’t think of it myself! But i wouldn’t have listened to him if he hadn’t treated my excuse as seriously as he did.

Let’s explore this a bit. I’m not sure what this means exactly. JB is not available for a romantic relationship with you, yet you want a romantic relationship in your life. Why do you have to value 1 more than the other? JB is important of course, but so are your desires to be more intimate and close with a man. Can those both coexist equally?

The reason i value JB’s friendship so much is because of the raw depth of honesty we’ve managed to achieve. and the support we’re able to provide each other. it is SO INCREDIBLY unique, and i can never give it up. So, in my mind – if i try to build a romantic relationship with another man, i’d have to put aside my friendship with JB – not cut it off – but it won’t go any further and any deeper, because i’d be building something else with another man. He may have a space where he can continue to share with me, but i won’t be sharing myself with him anymore, because it would be inappropriate. It would be like having an emotional affair. So it wouldn’t be respectful of the man i’m building a romantic relationship with.

There’s also the fact surrounding all the tiny details in my meeting with JB that lead me to think it was the start of something HUGE. Mansions need deeper and stronger foundations than huts! JB isn’t seeing or dating anyone. He hasn’t been on any dating apps for 2 yrs. HE and i met during a very tiny window of time in which we were both on apps, with nothing serious on our minds. I wrote off dating sites because i wasn’t able to get the attention of men i was interested in, and he stopped, because his life headed into a tsunami. There’s no way he could’ve paid attention to creating ANY kind of new relationship.

These are the events that followed our meeting – and they were all major — 3 wks after i started writing to him, the store i’d pledged my life to, was sold out from under me. That was thanksgiving 2019. In January, his mother got sick. In Feb his mother passed. In March, Covid happened. in May, George Floyd happened. And being a police officer, all of the major happenings in the country have affected him in a more direct way than they’ve affected me. He schedules regular diving trips throughout the year, which keeps him sane. ALL of his trips for 2020 were cancelled. So it wasn’t just the addition of a lot of new and unknown negatives, but there was the loss of positives. IF JB and i hadn’t met when we did, in the beginning of Nov 2019, we would never have met at all.

I don’t believe that God would orchestrate such an unlikely meeting, with no greater purpose in mind than — than something that just ends, when i waltz off with another man. What are my reasons for going off with another man at this point? A physical connection? It seems like such a cheap thing to sell JB’s friendship for.

That’s what i meant when i said my friendship with JB means more to me than a romantic relationship with another man. There’s absolutely no doubt he cares about me. More than any other friend i’ve ever had. I feel like i haven’t yet given him all that i am meant to give to him. IF he’s a soldier on a battlefield and i’m a a nurse – it would be wrong of me to leave him in the middle of my shift to satisfy my cravings for my lover. FM is probably going to say i’m overthinking. And he may be right. But, now is simply not the right time. I should never have gotten myself on a dating app again – however, i wouldn’t have known how wrong the timing was until i did it! lol 🙂

it’s really odd to me, that even though i’m an over-thinker, i learn best by doing, not by thinking things through. i’m such an idiot. (and i say that lovingly, with no judgment against myself 🙂 )

~~ vino.

[Vino]

Lessons from a Meme!

So, JB and i ran into a mess. I was the one who caused it. I was emboldened by my experience with the man i went out with, and so, i told JB that the next time we met, we absolutely had to explore our physical connection, as long as he wasn’t grossed out by the thought of being touched by me. He said ok — but it sounded off. After several hours, i realized what i’d done. I had not given him room to say NO. I was so ashamed and embarrassed, but i wrote to him right away and asked him to forgive me for being so disrespectful of him.

He said he understood, and he wasn’t mad, and that he forgave me, but the shame in me refused to budge. I’ve lived with shame a great deal, and of all bad feelings that’s the hardest one to shake off. It makes you feel gross and disgusting and you feel like everyone else sees you that way too, and if they don’t, it’s because they are just super kind people and they are taking pity on you. It makes you feel like you’ve lost the equal status in a relationship and feel like you have no right to say NO anymore, until you’ve met the requirements of your self-inflicted punishment for whatever period of time. All this time, the relationship suffers, because your friend has already re-instated your position, or maybe you never even fell from your position in the first place, and they don’t have a clue how to help you get rid of shame, because you are unable to accept their forgiveness, because you won’t forgive yourself!

So – all day yesterday, i thought about all the ways in which i’d changed the dynamics of our relationship – i didn’t feel free to blurt things out to him – i felt like he wouldn’t want to hear from me. I wanted some kind of reassurance from him, but he’d already told me that we’re all good and his affection and respect for me hasn’t altered in the least bit. So, i felt trapped, and wondered how long it would take before my shame wore off and i could talk to him freely again. Well – last night, he sent me a picture of some really beautiful Catholic Churches. And today, he sent me a Catholic meme.

Suddenly, i saw what was going on. This whole Catholic thing is a MASSIVE, DEEP Foundation in our relationship! It’s one place we can both go to at ANY time and be in 100% agreement, heart, mind, body and soul! When we first met and he insisted we were of different religions, i thought he was being excessively judgmental. But he wouldn’t have been able to share that meme with me if i hadn’t been Catholic, because it would’ve offended me. There would’ve been a MASSIVE, DEEP part of our lives, that would never have connected. But it’s the WAY he is Catholic that creates this connection. The man i went out with was also Catholic, and although he listened patiently to my whole story about how i fell in love with the Catholic Church, he wasn’t as excited about it as JB was. To JB, i was starting to fall in love with his deepest love, and so, the changes in me were exciting to him.

The other man i connected with, who lives 70+ miles away and doesn’t see that as a long distance to travel to visit with me – we connect fully on our love for this Blessed country and politics. Politics, unfortunately, has become so polarizing, that it has almost become a core belief kind of thing. BUT – it is still a fickle area, and i’d never give myself to any political party with the depth and devotion and utter loyalty that i give to my Church. I don’t know if he’s a Catholic or not, but he’s a super awesome man, that’s for sure.

Anyway, i saw that in any relationship there are several layers of compatability that are necessary, in order for the relationship to succeed, and for me, my spiritual life is foundational, so any relationship i have will have to be 100% matching in that area. Other areas – are like the walls of a house, they need to be strong, but it’s not a major issue if they fall. Not as major an issue as a cracked foundation.

This made me wonder about my marriage, because we shared the same spiritual beliefs at the time we married, and when we switched churches, we did that together as well. SO — why was there no foundation?

The difference is — JB & I are ‘exercising’ our foundation together – when we learn something new or we’re reminded of something that means a lot – we instantly share it with each other and we get much pleasure out of sharing spiritual stuff with each other. I also go to him with my doubts and questions and confusions, and even if he doesn’t know the answers, he engages with me and we pray about it or we dig for answers together. This is something that i NEVER did with the ex. I think our spiritual lives are a growing foundation, and we shouldn’t treat it like a solid, stone foundation, that’s set once when it’s in place. AS a part of our lives, it changes and grows as we grow and change. So we need to keep going back to it, and exploring it together, and sharing it together.

So, thanks to the meme, i got some super cool insight into our relationship, and i wrote to him – and told him how i had been feeling afraid to write to him because of how this horrible shame is making me feel, and how thankful i am that he is able to share Catholic memes with me – which he wouldn’t have been able to do, if i hadn’t become Catholic! and he wrote back instantly, and said he understands shame, as he’s lived with it all his life, and he’d never pour that poison on to anyone else. he told me to never, ever, ever worry about any of our interactions, because his understanding is sky high. I must say — this is the fastest that i’ve seen shame flee from me! And next time, it will be even faster, because i won’t have to wait for JB to send me a meme so i can tell him my shame is making me afraid to talk to him. Maybe, shame won’t even have a chance to take root even for a minute!

this brings me infinite joy! Now i know why JB’s friendship means more to me than being told i’m attractive, or connecting over love for our country… with JB, i get all three. I just never believed him — i thought he was just referring to my inside whenever he calls me beautiful Vino. and he might be. But why should he call me beautiful Vino at all? So, even if he IS only referring to my inside self and not my outer self — he DOES see me as beautiful too, and i’m a total idiot. lol 🙂

Why are men so good to me? and so patient with me?! I am the luckiest woman in the world!

~~ vino

[Vino]

If your thoughts, feelings and emotions are being stirred up, then aren’t you getting tangled up in something that isn’t directly happening to you?

I see this as two different things. The stirring up of emotions is one thing. And getting tangled up in it is the second step – where you take things personally and it ruins your day. You cannot avoid having your emotions stirred up any more than you can prevent your shoes from getting dirty when you walk outside. It’s a natural response to what you see around you. You’d have to be completely inhuman to not feel anything at all. I value my feelings. They add color and depth to my life. But they don’t rule my life as they used to. i hope i never lose the ability to feel things!

The picture in my mind is that you don’t feel safe with these kinds of people. Meaning, you naturally have defenses up against these kinds of people and that they would have to work much harder to ever be in your life compared to, let’s say a man.

Ah. Ok. i don’t know how to clarify this for you, because i don’t know how to explain that i feel no fear of these people. You are right that they are going to have a harder time getting to be in my life. IN fact, it may be downright impossible.

Think about your playlist. Do you play music that has no value to you? Are you afraid of the music that is NOT in your playlist? This is how i see people – we all sing our own tunes and we all sound like unique musical instrument. We can even play each other’s songs, but since our instruments are unique, so when we play someone else’s song, we will add our own tones and texture to it.

For example – i honestly and sincerely do not like the sounds of traditional Indian and Ethiopian musical instruments. So, even if they play my favorite songs on those instruments, i’m not going to put it on my playlist! In other words – there’s nothing they can do to get me to listen to them. There’s no room for them in my life. It’s not a judgment against their value. It’s honoring my own. I am NEVER, EVER going to prevent anyone from singing their own songs, nor will i make them listen to mine.

My song was not pleasing to Indians and Ethiopians from the time i was a child. They always looked at me, and treated me as a stranger. I’m not on their playlist. The feeling was mutual, and i didn’t find their songs pleasing either. So they’re not on my playlist. I will go to those who value my song. Why should i try to put myself into the lives of those whom i mean nothing to?

In the past 2 weeks, i’ve been trying to get in touch with my friends, so i can finish my assignment of sharing my story with 10 people. Everyone is so busy with their own lives that they haven’t even had time to respond to my texts asking to set a time to talk! Should i be offended that they are busy?

Contrast that with an unexpected phone call i got from JB, just to check in and see if i was doing ok, because i was sending messages that sounded really stressed out. I know for a fact that he works longer hours than any of the women i’ve been trying to contact. I am not upset with my friends for not having time for me, but i surely value JB more because he MAKES time for me! Seriously though, how long does it take to send a reply to a text?! But i live my life without them, just as they live theirs without me. So, even though i love them, i do not NEED them, and they do not NEED me. I am not on their minds, and they are not on mine.

When i need help, i cannot go to them, because they don’t have a ton of room in their lives for me! I go to whoever has space for me. I do not like to burden people. But also – i become more reliant on those i go to most frequently, right? So the gap widens between me and those i don’t reach out to. The gap between me and Indians/Ethiopians is so wide that we might as well be on different planets.

So – fear has nothing to do with the fact that these people are not a part of my lives. They just don’t exist for me, as i don’t exist for them.

Here on this forum, of all the posts you have made, I have never once heard you stick up for women. I have only heard how they cannot be trusted and how they are harmful to men and how men need to be defended and spoken up for against the women complaining about them and the women ganging up against them. I’m not saying that isn’t true…I’m just saying it’s out of balance. If you were here talking about the injustices of mens’ behaviors towards women just as much….then I would feel like you are about defending ALL people equally and that you hold no biases against any particular race or gender…you are about fighting against the injustices in the world.

You are right, i haven’t made a single post in favor of women. Not just on this forum, i haven’t done it anywhere else either. There are enough voices speaking up for them.

I have shared my distrust and true feelings about women, only here, and with a few private friends, not in public forums. In fact, i limit my interaction in public forums because they’re too noisy and nobody is really seeking solutions on them, everyone just wants to voice their opinion.

then I would feel like you are about defending ALL people equally and that you hold no biases

i DO have biases. And i’m NOT about defending ALL people equally. I am about defending those who DON’T have anyone defending them. So depending on whose voice isn’t being heard at the moment, my focus will shift.

For example – if i’m a judge and the problem involves an Indian man and an Indian woman – my focus would be on making sure the woman’s side is heard, because women tend to not be heard fully in India.

IF it was between an Indian man and an American man – i’d make sure the American man is heard, because his voice is being wiped out by other ethnicities.

If it’s between people of two different races – i would need to make sure the white person is heard, because white voices are being devalued.

just a rough example. I don’t know how courts work. This is how my personal heart-court works. i defend whoever isn’t being defended.

But – i will never treat anyone less than another because of their race or gender. i am not a person who sits on a fence. i HAVE taken sides. It’s the voiceless who needs a voice, not the one who’s perfectly fine screaming on their own.

————————————————–

On another entirely different note – i had an experience last night.

I got back on a dating site 10 days ago. I wasn’t going to sign up for a membership unless i found someone interesting enough to write to. From my experience on dating sites 2 years ago, i wasn’t expecting anyone to write to me. And i’d promised myself i wouldn’t humiliate myself again by writing to all the men i was attracted to, and being ignored by all of them. But i was willing to give it another go.

I was suprised at the number of messages i received. Even from men that i actually found interesting and attractive! So i went out with one of them last night. I had a really good time. He said all the things that i’d never heard before, from a good man. He told me i was very attractive. i’ve only heard flattering words from creeps before, and i knew they were saying it to get into my pants. Or just to gross me out, idk. I’ve never had a normal man tell me i look good. He was easy to talk to. He actually listened to everything i said even though i wasn’t able to answer a simple question concisely. He summarized my one hour of blabbering into one sentence. I was impressed. I wish i could hire his brain to summarize my thoughts for me all the time.

He’d asked me what i was looking for on that site. WE’ve concluded that i’m not looking for a relationship, and that i have absolutely no clue what i’m truly looking for. Basically, i’m wasting my time, and the time of everyone who writes to me!

BUT – a few things that are clear in my mind now, so this experiment was also of great value to me — 1. there are many good men in this world, besides JB. They’re just as easy to trust and just as easy to be attracted to, and just as easy to talk to, and they ARE interested in relationships.

2. I have no desire to build a second friendship with another man. It has to be a relationship or nothing.

3. I value my friendship with JB more than i want a relationship with another man.

What am i getting from JB?!

Whatever it is, it became more delicious after last night. sigh.

~~ vino

[Vino]

Wouldn’t you say that you have an unforgiving attitude in general towards women, Indians and Ethiopians? I know that you are open to anyone who comes into your life and holds up to your standards, regardless of their race or gender, but in general, your feelings towards these groups as a whole are instantly negative due to your personal experiences.

yes, it sure sounds that way. i just know what they’re capable of, so i prefer to keep my distance from them. I an exceedingly grateful that i don’t have to live in India or Ethiopia. When i run into Ethiopians and Indians here, in the US – i treat them as i do every other stranger – with polite respect. I don’t go out of my way to avoid them, or seek them out. They’re just not a part of my life. (except in discussions like this. lol 🙂 )

i don’t judge a woman as evil just because she’s a woman. I was never more helpful and kind to a male customer and less to a female one. Nor was a friendlier to a male customer than female one. Strangers are strangers, they all get equal polite and respectful treatment.

Why not? Just because there is not a personal offense to you directly, if someone activates your anger, your hatred, your rage, your disgust, your judgment…you are being activated by their behavior. Would you not say there is something to forgive? Forgiving others’ limitations, their incompetence, their short-sidedness, their lack of understanding and awareness, their meanness, their judgments etc. are all things that need to be forgiven as they stir up your own emotions.

I’m not really sure how to explain myself any differently than i did in the previous post. I tried to think of something that would activate all those intense emotions in me, and i can’t. The closest i’m coming is to what i heard a few days back about the animal shelters being overrun because people are abandoning pets which they got at the beginning of lockdowns in 2020. That makes me angry. But my anger is making me look for ways to help those shelters and the pets, it’s not raging against the heartless people. How does it halp me or anyone if i’m raging against foolish person? I don’t see any value in it. I’m not responsible for arresting such people or bringing them to justice or anything else. But if i can help those who are suffering because of one person’s dump actions, then, that’s what i’m going to be focusing my energy on. I care more about victims than perpetrators.

IF i were still working as a nurse, and i got two patients – a person who beat up another and the person who got beat up – i would take care of both of them the same way. i wouldn’t clean the wounds of the aggressor in a way to cause him more pain. No matter how much i think he deserves every slash on his body, i will not increase the pain that he is in. I am a nurse and my job is to clean wounds and bind them up and make my patients comfortable. But the reason i’ve treated them both the same has nothing to do with forgiveness. I have not been hurt, therefore, i have nothing to forgive!

I’m not sure what you mean when you say “you’re being activated by their behavior” — in what way? what kind of activation? i don’t sense any kind of activation. I become aware of an injustice, but that doesn’t fill me up with rage. Shock, yes. but not rage or hatred.

I view forgiveness as releasing all negative thoughts/feelings/emotions around an event or person…whether direct or indirect.

ok. I don’t get tangled up with things that don’t affect me directly. I don’t see that as my problem.

Let’s just take Indians and Ethiopians for example. The way they treat women is something that hurts your heart and makes you angry. Their choices are activating anger in you, right? If you forgive their choices and let go of that anger, then think of how much happier and lighter you will feel?

No – the way ‘i’ was treated hurt me and made me angry. I do not know all the details of how they treat every other woman, and i do not have the power to know this, nor do i have the power to protect anyone, even if i DID know. So it’s really distant from me, and it’s a total waste of myself to get tangled in it. Also, nobody has the power to hurt me anymore. i’m not a child. So i have no anger towards them. I’m just not going to be looking for my best friend or my future husband among them. That is all.

You don’t trust women. You get angry when you believe women are teaming up against men and wanting to blame and shame men.

Yes, the actions of women against men make me angry. But only specific ones that i surely KNOW about. I don’t look at every random woman and think: “I bet she treats men with contempt and disrespect.” — i don’t know that! But if i saw a woman treating a man in a bad way right in front of my face, then i’d know for sure. But it’s still not my place to forgive her, because i’m not the one who got hurt by her.

I’m sincerely confused by the pictures in your mind. What are you picturing when i say that i don’t trust women, or Indians or Ethiopians?

Wouldn’t you say that you could forgive the choice of those women who you believe are wanting to cause harm?

You’re working with your definition of forgiveness. Mine has to do with action. I may not trust someone. But i do not treat them as they are any less than a person that i DO trust. The trust determines the degree to which i will allow them into my private spaces. And that HAS to be EARNED. The choices that other women make, have absolutely NOTHING to do with me. I don’t understand why you think i should get involved with things that do not affect me.

To me…as long as there is a negative emotion that gets triggered by someone or something – if I am going to release that hate or judgment or whatever negative feelings I have…I need to forgive that person, that leader, that group, that event in order to move forward with clarity and not be influenced by heavy, negative emotions.

This, i understand. i do this by distancing myself from that person, so i have more mental space to deal with the trigger. I’m also going to use that opportunity to examine the trigger and gather all previous experiences that created the same feelings and purge myself of all of them at once. I also understand the importance of not being influenced by heavy, negative emotions. the truth is, most people in the world do NOT affect me deeply, because i don’t know them and i don’t care to know them. I am happy with the dozen or so people in my life. OF those dozen, only 3 affect me deeply. My kids, and JB. They bring me the greatest joy and they also have the potential to being me the greatest pain. The rest of the people in the world really don’t matter to me. Should they? if so, why?

I shared my story with another friend today. And she really liked it too. But she wanted to ‘make it better’. So i gave her what i wrote. And i was amused with her edits. It showed me all the ways in which she hadn’t understood what i’d said. lol 🙂 The most interesting thing was how she ‘translated’ what i said about my worth. I’d said that i trusted my friend’s perception of me – that i was worth being a friend to, even though i coudln’t understand why. She changed that to “..my friend’s perception of me, that i was worthy. That i too could have friends, and be appreciated. Being a friend was critically important to me, even if i did not understand why.”

It was really interesting to me how a few changes in the way things were worded, just sucked the power out of it for me! I don’t like the phrase: “I am worthy” It meant more to me, to be specific “I am worth being a friend to.” Also, she completely misunderstood what it is that ‘i didn’t understand’. SO i have to see how i can clarify that. The thing i didn’t understand was what made me worth being a friend to. So, i had to believe it was true, even though i lacked understanding. I also don’t know how she came up with ‘being a friend was important to me’. I’ve never doubted my own ability to BE a friend.

Anyway – it was a fun exercise and i enjoyed the mangling of my words. lol 🙂 She was excited by it too. She’s a graphic designer, so she started creating logos and pictures to go with my story. lol 🙂

~~ vino

[Vino]

how about that?! i posted a tiny message, and now i can see your post! i think i’ve found a foolproof way of getting back in!

[Vino]

locked out again! lol 😀

[Vino]

Let’s talk about forgiveness then. What is your definition of forgiveness? Since you seem to not be willing to forgive everybody and everything, then what qualifies as worth forgiving?

Forgiveness is something that i can offer, only to someone who has directly offended or hurt me. I cannot forgive the abusers of others. To me, forgiveness is accepting what happened, taking my focus off the person who hurt me, and looking at myself, to see what i need to do to heal. It’s a process, like all other healing processes and there will be layers and layers and layers of it. My very first step might be that i no longer want to make that person pay for what they did. My second step might be to actually call 911 if i see them injured in an accident, even though i’d rather they just die. My third step might be to willing to offer help if i am able. And it can keep going deeper, till we actually become friends. I can stop the process at any level. The space where i have NOT forgiven, would be the space in which i am expending more energy on them than on myself and my own recovery. Any movement away from that person, and onto myself, is progress in the direction of forgiveness. So, i cannot forgive for someone else. I could help them forgive, the way i do it, because it is practical and doesn’t dismiss your feelings and emotions, and redirects your thoughts and actions towards something positive instead of being stuck in a dead end, poisonous space.

I recently saw a post by a woman, who was asking for advice on how she could make her ex hurt. There was a lot of good advice, telling her, he sounded like the kind of person who wouldn’t feel anything anyway, but she was still so stuck on wanting to do something painful to him. This is an unforgiving attitude. I do not have an unforgiving attitude. It’s a waste of time, and it makes me the kind of person i don’t want to be. I want to be free of negativity in my life, and that requires me to let go of my negative emotions and feelings towards someone else, no matter how many legiitmate reasons i have for those feelings. It’s like my vessel analogy – i cannot have sources of poison inside of me and expect that i can give unpoisonous things to my children. Everything that comes out of me will be laced with that poison, so, i will essentially be poisoning those i love, no matter how good my intentions are So i have to merciliessly cut off all sources of poisonous thoughts and feelings within me – this is how i ‘forgive’. SO – i cannot forgive what someone has done to someone else. For others, i can only offer protection – like my children – i will stand between them and someone who would harm them.

This was really difficult to do when i was married, because i saw their dad as someone who could harm them. So i protected them in a different way. I made sure that their relationship with me was super solid, so if they got hurt by him, they could still freely come to me. I never spoke to them about their dad or gave them any kind of advice on how to relate to him. When we watched shows, if there was a character that resembled their dad, i never pointed it out. I knew that my view of him was poisoned, and i didn’t want to pass on that poisoned view to them. I knew that the way they saw him could be entirely different different, and it would be true, based on THEIR experience with him. For the same reason, i never shared my issues with him with friends and family, because i wasn’t 100% sure of their ability to not be poisoned by my narrative. This was my practical act of forgiveness while i was still within the situation. I refused to bring him harm. I could’ve done it SO, SO, SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO easily! all i had to do was record stuff he said, or spread the emails he sent, or record all the stuff i found out about him online. OMG! it would’ve been SO EASY to utterly and totally destroy him! And i wouldn’t have had to speak a single lie! So during this whole time i hated him freely, so, my feeling were far from forgiving. that’s why i think forgiveness has to be looked at from a larger space than just feelings.

Anyway. What’s your take on forgiveness?

I will definitely read the Gottman book. I’m curious to know what it says. But i don’t believe that it is unbiased. 🙂 mostly because the conclusion of it seems to suggest that women don’t have equal power in a relationship. I’m curious to know why not? It’s just not logical. Anyway, we will discuss it after i’ve read the book!

What a beautiful story!

thank you! 🙂

~~ vino

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