[Vino]

Heidi… I don’t know why I needed to hear you say that – “DO NOT EVER accept anything less than a man providing that for you as well!”

The man who taught me that it was possible to create a safe space for another person – I met him at a bookstore. He was working there, and he helped me find a book. He wasn’t the friend who showed me I was worth being a friend to – this guy – he was my second friend. I met him twice more in random ways – at a combined church event, and at another church several years later. The second time I met him, was when I actually spoke to him, and I thought it interesting that he wasn’t afraid to talk to me in public, and gave me his full attention, and didn’t rush our conversation. It was like he had absolutely nothing else to do but talk to me at that moment, and it was totally magical. I felt like everyone else around us had completely vanished, which had never happened before, because I was always afraid of people who might have stories going in their heads when they see a married woman caught up in a very deep conversation with a man who wasn’t related to her. He seemed completely oblivious to such goings on in the heads of others, and I relaxed, and completely enjoyed his magic. I didn’t think i’d see him again because he lives several states away.

But, I ran into him a second time when he was visiting the church I attended at the time. I saw him from far away, and I saw how he worked his magic. There was an older person in a wheelchair – and he got down to her level so he was face to face with her, and it was just him and her for the time they spoke – she was just so delighted to see him. And then, it was some other person – who also got enveloped in his magic bubble and vanished. Then a child… then a whole bunch of women & men… everyone just flocked around him, they were so excited to see him. I almost left without talking to him because of how many people wanted a piece of him. But, I knew i’d never be happy if I didn’t at least say hi, although I was bit worried too, because we’d only talked once before and I wasn’t sure if he’d remember me. I had nothing to talk to him about either! But, when he saw me, I saw recognition in his eyes, and it didn’t matter that I didn’t have anything to talk about, he made that magic bubble for me too, and all those people vanished from around us, and I don’t even remember how long I spoke with him. This time, we exchanged emails, and he even gave me his phone number, although he didn’t ask for mine.

Anyways – I emailed him. And soon I had a serious crush on him. Well. maybe I had a crush on him from the very first time at the bookstore, idk! lol 🙂 I told him I had a crush on him. He said he was glad I had confessed to him. And then, he got right into the muck and asked what was happening in the marriage and what was I doing to fix it. He was able to remain my friend and neutralize my chemical flare up. I don’t know how he did that. But one particularly bad day, I actually called him. He’s the first person, I’ve ever been brave enough to call on the phone. I hate phones. I was scared to call him too, but I had to. I needed his voice. And he made space for me to talk to him. I’ve no idea what I interrupted in his life when I called him. And he wasn’t upset at me for simply needing to hear his voice!

Well.. that was all such a long time ago. He emailed me when he got married, said he had thought about me on his wedding day, and prayed for my marriage to heal. I haven’t heard from him since. He couldn’t tell me how he created the magic bubble – I asked him…lol 🙂 he had no idea what I was talking about either 🙂 But, I thought about it, and analyzed it, and tore it to pieces to figure out what it was made of – what was it that caused me to feel so safe in his presence? It took me a while, because I had to analyze it backwards, figuring out what it was that I needed, and what it was that he gave me that met that need… Basically – it’s total acceptance. Zero judgement. And complete focus. And, of course, being completely oblivious to what someone else might think! 🙂 Even if the person you are talking to is distracted, you can maintain focus, and calm down the space around the two of you. It’s brilliant! I use it on my customers all the time. There was one harried mother, who was actually able to articulate what she felt – she said to me – thanks for slowing things down and taking your time, that really helped me calm down.

But… I have gotten so used to being the one creating the space – that I’ve become ok with not having it created for me. And when you said what you did, I realized that I still want that for me too, so I can let down my hair and be needy from time to time. Because, I honestly don’t know how to get rid of my neediness. And if I have to get rid of it first before a man can find value in me, then, i’d be a 100 yrs old before I find him! lol 🙂 Plus, the version of me that my Bookstore friend was a friend to, was far needier than who I am today. (you know, he’d be totally proud of me if he saw me today! 🙂 )

And what you said about misunderstandings – thanks for the reminder! you’re so right – misunderstandings are going to happen no matter how perfectly you communicate! I wish I could remember my own lessons that I learn! lol 🙂 I was with my brother over the summer, and he was talking about his frustrations with some folks he was working with, who simply couldn’t understand anything about what was needed for the project, and wouldn’t take his word for it either… And I remember telling him – maybe they are incapable of seeing things your way, sort of like, if you’re color blind, no matter how well somebody explains the colors to you, you can’t see it!! It’s still frustrating though, and I had no solution for my brother, except that seeing them as color blind, helped him create a bit more space for them mentally.

You know… i’m going to go over all the messages between me and my guy, and see how much I’ve overshared, because I was too desperate to be understood! next time, I can avoid that!!!

Thanks, Heidi. And… I know I didn’t have to tell the whole story about my friend, but, gosh, he just makes me so happy, so I needed to talk about him! 🙂

~ vino

[Vino]

wow, thanks you guys! I really appreciate your input and your feedback.

You are right that some of my childhood thoughts of unworthiness are still with me. Not in my friendships – because I’ve worked through that, and I know I have a lot to bring to a friendship. Romantic stuff? That’s a new place. Why do I feel like I don’t have much to offer in a romantic relationship? Well… he’s the only one who’s corresponded with me up to the point of setting up a meeting. I have been online for about 3 months now. I approach my interactions as a friend, because that’s my strong place. So, whenever I see something interesting in a profile or a picture, I send a friendly message about it. I’ve had some fun conversations. None last more than a day, or 3 to 4 quick responses back and forth about whatever topic I threw out.

I pride myself on being able to converse about anything, even if i’m not familiar with something, because I do have a curious mind, and I know how to ask the right questions to find out about something i’m not familiar with, and people tend to like to talk about things they like and are familiar with. I use that ability to connect with people I run into everyday. Made friends with a total stranger who was buying just one thing at my register the other day. It’s one thing to make a connection in real life. I know I have a very approachable presence that puts people at ease, and helps them be themselves, because I know what it means to be myself and I can give people room to just be themselves. (I learned that from an amazing man! – who was ‘just a friend’). But online…? Unless you know me on facebook or some other community that allows you to see how I interact with various people and how I handle various topics… it’s hard to communicate what you have to offer, isn’t it?! at least, I think it is. it feels lopsided. I feel like, most of me is missing online. In person, I don’t need to say a single word, you’d just know i’m your friend and you can trust me. A coworker told me some years back, that I give off such a trustworthy vibe that I could sell anything I wanted to. lol 🙂 well… I value trust, so I would never sell anything that isn’t true.

So, I honestly don’t know what to do about my insecurities. I realize that I DO need his approval. I don’t need it to be myself. I do need it to know that i’m attractive to him, or to any man, for that matter. Seeing that he’s the only one who’s found me interesting enough to write to… it makes me wonder about what it is that men find attractive? I know i’m not drop-dead gorgeous. especially in photos. I also know that my looks don’t matter so much in real life, because the rest of me is quite attractive. (Oh, yesterday, I ran into a friend whom I haven’t seen for a few months, and she noticed I’ve lost weight! – it made me feel extra awesome!) 🙂

I hadn’t considered that total honesty could also put me in danger of being taken advantage of.. thanks for pointing that out! That comes from being lied to and deceived – I can’t stand anyone who lies & deceives, so I always test my intensions frequently to see if i’m being true. I also, really dislike being misunderstood, so I try to communicate as clearly as I possibly can. – which, again – is much easier in person, than online, because you can’t affect how someone reads what you write. They’re interacting only with words, not the person. So, when I write, I tend to write a lot more than I would speak…!

Heidi – I hadn’t thought of my vulnerability as being a very special part of who I am! Now I don’t feel bad about it, or feel the need to get rid of it. And I won’t ask him why he’s been writing to me. Even though i’m dying to know. lol 🙂

Kanya – thanks for letting me know about that book! I’m ordering it as soon as I finish writing to you, it’ sounds absolutely perfect!!!

I am so glad I found this place to talk! it takes such a pressure off of me to be able to air out my thoughts, and get honest feedback!

thanks so much!

~ vino

[Vino]

Hi Kanya!

thanks.. chemical soup! that’s a good word for it! lol 😀

I’ve actually been trying to figure out how to stay grounded! I’m in a very vulnerable place, to be honest. I’ve never had the attention of a man who i’m also attracted to, and it’s throwing me off balance. I’m glad we’re meeting at a place that’s close to me, and familiar to me, which was a pleasant surprise, because i’d agreed to meet at a place that was somewhere in the middle because we do have a bit of distance and traffic to consider. So, I was thinking, I’d get there a bit early and walk off my nervousness and watch some families with little kids to get myself in a more normal state of mind, and just keep walking till I run into him.

I’ve also considered that it’s entirely possible that he cancel the meeting. Sometimes I think I knew him, and sometimes I think he’s a total stranger. I’ve seen many pictures of him, it’s not like he’s trying to hide who he is. But, you never know if you have a connection till you meet face to face! I would really like for there to be a connection, because he’s a lot of fun to talk to. And i’m definitely worried that i’ll pretend there is a connection, just to be able to keep talking to him, especially, if HE thinks there’s a connection.

So far, the only solution I can think of, is to keep being completely honest with him, and if I can’t get a hold of my reactions, i’m going to tell him what I said above – that i’m off balance and that really scares me, because I know I make stupid decisions when I can’t think clearly – and that I really need to be able to calm down so I can sort through my chemical soup!

My greatest concern is safety. When you meet at a place like work or some other community thing… you get to know each other first, and you just know you can trust someone or not. When you don’t have that community to help you get a whole picture of a person – how do you know if you can trust or not? My dating experience is very very limited. I married the first person I ‘dated’. Our dates were stressful. I didn’t know why back then. I do know now. Not only was he a person who didn’t know how to build an intimate relationship, he was also gay! Well. This guy isn’t gay! That’s enough to throw me off! But, I also, don’t know why he ever responded to my first message and why he’s corresponded for as long as he has. Most men don’t respond to my messages and if they do, it’s just out of politeness, and we move on after a bit of small talk. So, I can’t stop wondering why he ever decided to keep writing to me. I think i’ll ask him that when I see him.

I can’t help wondering, if maybe, there’s something about my profile, that say’s i’d be easy to catch. At the same time, he’s not been in a hurry to do anything. I don’t want to imagine negative things that aren’t there. (Just as I don’t want to imagine positive things that aren’t there… )

I’ve been lonely my entire life. But now I have friends. So my loneliness is a lot less and far less crippling. So, I could… if I had to… get by without an intimate relationship. I’d rather be alone than in another wrong relationship, even if it is only a casual relationship.

ugh! i’m still a mess. lol 🙂

~ vino

[Vino]

Wow, thanks Heidi! You’ve given me a lot to think about.

Thanks for defining ‘Fragility’… it’s identical to a definition I’ve been learning of stiff joints and muscles! This is from Scott Sonnon – I have found his teachings (which are aimed at the physical but don’t ignore the psychological) – have so many parallels in my life, and I just love reading his stuff. (and doing his exercises) 🙂 But – one of his beginner fitness programs – he talks about how the fear of injury causes you to brace the muscles in that area – which in turn stiffens the joints in that area. And mobility keeps decreasing, which in turn, increases the chances of those areas to get injured! So, his solution, is to gradually increase the range of motion in all joints, and then, keep increasing the complexity of the movements in those joints. The pain, is there to protect you, so you respect what your body is trying to do, and only move to the point of pain, then you move back. With each movement you make, the pain recedes a little, and eventually, you have your full range of motion back, and only then, is your body able to protect itself more efficiently, because it knows it will be ok in those movements! Or bounce back quicker, if injured – resilience! (another favorite word of mine!) I like that whole bit that you wrote about resilience!

Isn’t it incredible how the body works similarly to the inside of us! You’re so right, it’s not opposite things… it’s the same thing! it just looked like that yin/yang Chinese symbol thing to me 🙂

Oh… I got a surprise from him two days back… he’s put me on his calendar, so we’ll be meeting in two weeks! 🙂 — well.. 16 days, but who’s counting?! lol 😀
~ vino

[Vino]

Hi Heidi…

I like that word ‘sacred’!!! – a very special place, where only the most trusted can enter!

I’m just as curious as you as to what’s going to get tossed my way next! lol 🙂 I went to work this morning, and learned that my happy place is going to be shut down. The Entire store chain, is shutting down!!! My Entire team, is going to be scattered! It could be a week, or a month! We don’t care so much about the company, they were getting to be quite annoying actually, because they kept reducing our benefits and perks. However, we truly enjoyed the energy we created together, and we’re all feeling a loss. Even if we keep in touch, there’s something about working together, that creates some kind of high, that’s hard to replicate with ‘keeping in touch’.

Also – On Sunday – I was with a group of folks I just started to meet with – a divorce support group. It was just my second time at the meeting and most of the people I met the first time weren’t there, so it was like being at a totally new meeting. I shared some of my recent insights, and That felt so good too! I realized, as I talked, that I wasn’t at all bothered by the fact that I couldn’t define a romantic relationship with a man! I have never been so at peace with not knowing something! lol 🙂

So, my excitement spilled all over the place, and although i’d said I wouldn’t share my excitement with him via email, I did, since he’s the one who triggered this whole thought process in the first place, i figured he deserved a few of the fruits from my labor. lol 🙂 One of the things you’d said in your first response was kind of sticking up in my head and I was watching for it in his responses to me – you said “… or he is quite fragile.” In the divorce group, I ran into a ‘fragile’ lady. As she spoke, I could feel her brokenness. She was just in SO much pain. And the word ‘FRAGILE’ popped up into my head. I knew there was absolutely nothing I could say to her, that would help, even though some of her experiences paralleled mine – like not having anyone to celebrate the holidays with, and wishing someone would stand up for her and defend her. So, when it was my turn to share, I slightly mentioned that my family lived in another country, and we got together in the summer, which was a whole 10 years since i’d been with them before. And I also mentioned, how i’d grown up feeling like I had to face all my battles alone. I figured, if she wanted to, she could pick up some encouragement from that, but it wouldn’t be very encouraging, if I directed my comments at her.

Anyway… that experience with her… helped me watch for signs of fragility more accurately. And guess what I discovered?! He’s not fragile. But he is broken. But more surprising than that – I discovered an area in myself that used to be extremely fragile – and is now in a state of brokenness. I wasn’t expecting to find something in me while I was busy looking at him! But. As I shared some of my stories with him, I picked up a pattern in my own stories – I am TERRIFIED of abandonment just as he is! But in opposite ways – I am afraid of being abandoned after I get physically vulnerable, he’s afraid of being abandoned after becoming emotionally vulnerable. I’m not afraid of anything emotional, he’s not afraid of anything physical. Together we could make one really amazing person! lol 😀

Anyway now, I feel like i’m in an alcoholics anonymous group… lol 🙂 two people with a similar brokenness… we have the ability to completely destroy each other, or we might be able to help each other… I don’t have a clue which way this will go. At least we’ve established that we’re capable of being friends.

My physical issues were a surprise to me though, because I sure fantasize about physical intimacy, and so I didn’t think I was running away from it. But, I was talking to him about my cousins, who took advantage of me when I was younger, and I never thought i’d been abused by them, because I really liked them, and Wanted all the attention they gave me… but it’s what happened afterwards that destroyed me – I was their ‘dirty little secret’ and in public, they wouldn’t even acknowledge my presence, like they were ashamed of me. One cousin got caught, and he blamed the whole thing on me (as did my mother) – and I felt like no one had my back. Also, the fact that they were ashamed of me, made me feel like there was something wrong with me, that I wasnt’ good enough for someone to be proud of, that I didn’t deserve open, public affection because I was ugly and disgusting and repulsive. (most of that, is from the way mom talked to me when she found out about my cousin).

So, I’m glad we haven’t met yet, because the entire reason for my wanting to meet him so badly was to find out how he saw me. In my head, if he could accept me as I am, then that would prove that I wasn’t so undesirable. on the flip side… if he rejected me, it would confirm my negative images of myself. I don’t think it was right for me to put such a burden on him! He can’t heal my brokenness anymore than I can heal his. But then again… everyone in an alcoholics anonymous group – is an addict at various stages of recovery…! so… maybe we can still support each other in some strange way!

thanks for listening! really helps to write all this out, and get feedback!!!

~ vino

[Vino]

Hi Heidi! I feel like the sun has come out again, and I am happy! lol 🙂

We’re trying to work out a time and place to meet, because he’s lives about 45 min away and there’s sometimes heavy traffic between us, and 45 minutes could easily turn into more than an hour. Plus, my hours at the store are kind of irregular, and i’d need two weeks to get a whole day off… :p

But, even if things don’t work out with him, I’ve learned a lot – I know what I need/want going forward and can use that with anyone I meet. Also, he and I were able to establish a level of raw, honest communication, that I found incredibly refreshing, and I’ve added that to my list of what I need from a man!!!

I think, every man I’ve met, has helped me create a bit of my list! and … I can see how that list could keep changing over time… so, I should add a ‘fine print’ to my profile that says: “I reserve the right to change my mind at any time!” lol 😀

~ vino

[Vino]

Hi Heidi, thanks for getting back to me.

I couldn’t rest last night, and looked for stuff to read on here, and found the article on ‘love addicts’ and decided to buy the book about women who give too much. I also wrote to him, and told him I was getting more and more confused, and it was driving me crazy, he asked me what I was getting so confused about, and I said I didn’t know what I wanted from him, what he wanted from me, that I was confused about all my intense feelings that were consuming my focus and getting in the way of my life… and he said, I had valid points and suggested we meet. So, now, i’m waiting to hear from him about when he’s free, and in the meantime, I’ve been sorting out the mess in my head… because… I need to know what I need, what I want, and what i’m looking for, before I meet him! Otherwise, i’d just go with the flow.

But, going back to the article on Love addicts – there was a line that struck a chord with me – the one about the stage for love addicts being set in childhood – from not being loved in the way they needed to be loved while growing up. That was me. Till about 15 years ago, I didn’t even believe I was worth being a friend to… I was in my early 30s then. That’s a long time to go without a friend, and without any sense of self-worth. And, I needed someone to befriend me, unconditionally, in order to get out of that pit. Thankfully, someone came along, who did just that. It took him 3 years to convince me he wouldn’t stop being my friend just because I wasn’t perfect 100% of the time. It just didn’t make sense to me, why anyone would want to be friends with a mess. Then, one day, I decided I would simply believe what he said, instead of questioning him all the time about why he’s my friend, and simply accept that there are things about myself that I couldn’t see. Good things. It was terrifying. But also, SO incredibly liberating! And I decided I would try to do the same with other people who came into my life – if they offered their friendship, I would accept it without questioning them, and just be their friend in return.

Do you know what I discovered??!!! FRIENDS! everywhere!

But when it comes to men, I can only relate to them properly in neutral situations – like at work, or in a platonic relationship. I think I know why – it’s because my platonic friendship zone was the first one to heal. The other one – is still in a mess – because I don’t know what it should look like or feel like. And I worry that i’d miss a good man, because of my confusion. But… I just realized… I don’t need to be as confused as I am… because the basis for a deeper and more intimate relationship with a man, begins with the FRIENDSHIP that i’m getting quite good at recognizing.

There’s mutual respect. There’s complete and total acceptance. There’s the feeling of being valued and meaning something to the other person. There’s a freedom to talk about anything, and be yourself. There’s no need to pretend, and there’s no room for lying. There’s no arrogance, and no pride because we are all equal, and we don’t feel the need to lift ourselves up or put the other down. We feel better just by being in each other’s presence. Distance and time doesn’t weaken the connection we have. Our online relationship, is identical to our real life relationship!!!! We feel at ease in each others’ presence. We take an interest in each others’ lives and in our personal discoveries about ourselves or any random thing. We don’t feel defensive when questioned by our friends.

I could go on – but – I realized, today, while I was at work – that if I want a more intimate relationship with a man, it should have all that plus more! Not less! I work at a store, i’m a part time worker, I don’t make much, but I LOVE my work, because of the people I work with. IF any personal relationship with anyone (not just a man) doesn’t make me happier than my work, then, I don’t need to pour myself into it.

I’m sure i’ll go into a tailspin, if, when we meet, we still have the connection in real life as we’ve had online. it takes so little to make me happy! But at least, now, I can tell him, I know what a friend looks like. And I want his friendship. If he has no time to build a friendship, then, there’s really not a whole lot left to talk about. But, I want to have that discussion with him in person. So, i’m not going to email him any of my recent discoveries, that I have shared here.

Thanks for creating this space, to talk things out… I really needed it, and may continue to need it for a while! lol 🙂

~ vino

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