Forum Replies Created
-
Posts
-
Wow, Heidi, Thanks!
“The fact that you want to see her as a cool, old lady and don’t feel in alignment with identifying her as your mother in your mind and heart, that is a SUPER BIG barrier to your healing.”
That’s some brilliant insight! I see the major block there. I just don’t want a mother in my life! I don’t want to be any woman’s daughter! That’s a major block! I don’t mind approaching relationships with women from the outside, but, I don’t want to get vulnerable and connect on an emotional level. And that emotional thing, is what my mom wants. I can’t. That requires trust, and I can’t trust her that much. I don’t know how to trust again. I know, that none of the wounds she caused were intentional, and that she did the best that she could. I don’t hold anything against her. But, i’m not her little girl. I’m nobody’s little girl!
Playing like I did with the 4 yr old… I thought that was the babysitter side of me. lol 🙂 The boy’s mom was being the real mom – she was all dignified and not running up and down the aisles. Although, she was a visitor, so it would’ve been weird for her to do that, whereas I was in my own store, so i was free in a way she wasn’t. My mom was dignified too. Didn’t do anything silly. I don’t know how to be dignified. I always feel awkward in formal situations in which i’m supposed to be behaving like an adult. I’m always afraid I might say or do something inappropriate and offend someone, because I can’t take things seriously. I remember I used to wonder at what age I’d become as serious as my parents. I figured, i’d be an adult when I got serious and there was serious stuff in my life to keep me from playing.
Suddenly I feel like a possessed child that has endless energy and wants to play with everyone and won’t let anyone rest!!!
I just checked my messages to JB and saw that the email I sent him, DID sound like how you worded my message! lol 🙂 Now I have to give him space to figure out his life! I was re-reading some old messages… he spent a lot of time visiting her. In one message, he said, he hated her when he was growing up, because of how hurtful she could be with her words. And to this day, she’d never said she was proud of him for anything, although he’d never ever embarrassed her in any way or done anything that would’ve made her feel ashamed of being his mother. But, she showed her love in other ways, and that he loves her deeply and would die for her.
Anyway… I have my own life to sort out. We were finally, officially told this morning, that our store will be closing on the 28th. Sooner, if we run out of stuff. I have just two more weeks, to enjoy working with my favorite people, and then, even if we keep in touch… it won’t be the same as working alongside them! And I know for sure the men aren’t going to keep in touch! And they’d be the ones I miss the most! ugh!
my heart is literally feeling heavy and tight. JB. Me. Mothers! all pain! what a weird triangle! I hope his mom said something to him before it was too late! why? why couldn’t she say it? It’s just a few small words: “I’m so proud of you, my dear son!” She could’ve written it to him in his birthday card, if she couldn’t come out and say it!
I tell my kids every chance I get, that something or other that they’ve done or said is really amazing. When you say it frequently, as a part of normal conversation, it’s not hard, and it’s authentic, so the kids are never left wondering if you really meant it or not. Sometimes, I even bring up things they did in the past that had filled me with pride. It’s not hard to let our children know you’re proud of them!
~ vino
Hmm… thanks Heidi! I couldn’t see that ‘not cutting someone some slack’ is the same as not forgiving. lol 🙂 I couldn’t see it because I don’t feel any negative things towards her. I do remember how sad she was, when I told her, that it’s unrealistic to expect that we’d have a vibrant mother/daughter relationship after all the burned bridges behind us. However, if I approach my relationship to her with compassion, then I can get to know her as a cool older lady, and leave the ‘mothership’ on the side. I wonder if it’s possible to let a relationship TO a person, get in the way of truly connecting to the person?! I mean, as long as I keep thinking of her as a mother who carelessly hurt her child, I cannot get to know her as a woman who did her best through hard times…. If the original bridges are burned, I should let them go! So much work to do! I love this kind of work!
JB’s mom’s funeral is today. I didn’t write to him since Friday, and today, I just sent a short text letting him know he’s in my thoughts and he told me he was at the funeral home. When my dad died, many people came to comfort us. And it was interesting to note that those who gave the most comfort where the ones who said the least and just sat with us. I wish I could sit with him. I hate words sometimes. They’re so inadequate. But, I guess we do the best we can with what we have.
I learned another thing over the weekend – my lack of compassion at any given moment, can cause me to lose my positive energy and my value. I have been playing with the thought of ‘adding value’. I can add value to anything! My day, my dining table, every relationship and encounter with another person, to MYSELF! All through the choices I make and the actions I take, at any given moment. But, I met a woman who completely drained my resolve, and we barely even spoke! I let her get under my skin! She was like a walking black hole… and now that I think about it, she was very much like that lady at work that got under my skin. I have to strengthen my ability to be compassionate towards black holes! She had a little girl with her too, and most times, I can ignore the adult and focus on the child, because I feel the child needs a drop of sunshine to help them get through a day with a disgruntled adult. But, I failed the little one, from my lack of compassion for her mother. 🙁
But I had fun last night, at work, playing with a 4 yr old. Running up and down the empty store aisles. lol 🙂 Son of my faveorite manager… his wife wanted to pick him up from work and brought their little boy along. Most adorable little thing I’ve seen in a while! lol 🙂 At one point, he asked me: “Why do people trash my daddy’s store?” he must’ve overheard his dad telling his mom what we had to do each day. Most of it is clean up after customers. I told him people get excited about stuff and don’t pay attention to what they’re doing, so they end up leaving things all over the store. I love talking to kids. Their questions make me think about how to answer truthfully, without negativity, in words and concept that are at their level. But also, sometimes, it doesn’t matter what you say, because the child only needs to be taken seriously and his concerns acknowledged, and he’ll pick up your emotions more than your words anyway. So, I was glad that I usually see the clean up as a game. Lately, the customers are winning. lol 🙂
~ vino
PS – I got a message from JB last night – twice because I didn’t see his e-mail at 9pm. Then he texted an hour later. I was watching shows with my daughter and didn’t see his messages.
His mom didn’t make it out of the hospital. She passed away yesterday. 🙁
~ vino
LOL Heidi! I didn’t think I was writing anything that would be good in an actual resume, but you just showed me that I unconsciously wrote a great draft for a brilliant resume! I can add those details, and send it to the folks who came to talk to us!
What I loved about problem solving – it was the challenge – I had knowledge of our resources, our guidelines, our policies, etc. The customers had situations that they needed help with – whether it was refunds, returns, exchanges, or pictures that they had in their head that they were trying to bring to life. My challenge, was to understand their situation fully, and see their pictures even if they couldn’t express themselves well, match it up with what we had to offer, and find the best solutions. So, whenever I was talking to someone, my first goal was to get to the bottom of their situation, so I asked questions to clarify and pinpoint the details (for which I had to ignore all the flaring emotions and hold on to my own cool), and then, I could literally feel my brain flipping through all the options I could match up with the situation and work out a solution that satisfied them. I just liked the brain exercise. It was like putting together a puzzle that only I could see the pieces of, because I could see both sides. lol 🙂
And the physical work was the same – but a challenge for my body, more than my brain. It was a test of my endurance, my strength, my balance, and my flexibility. Then, when we had to keep changing our displays to accommodate the unreasonable amounts and kinds of merchandise they were sending us, it added creativity to the test, and we’ve all been feeding off that energy lately, and it’s been awesome!
Thanks for the insights into the Mother of all issues! You’re so right – when I became a mother, I became the thing that I passionately hated… what a fix to be in! That’s why I bonded with my kids non-physically, because my mom’s bond with us was physical, but not emotional and mental. But also… I rejected everything she was good at – creating a happy home that Dad loved coming home to. An inviting home that was always full of happy guests and great food. And that… has always been my hearts deepest desire – to create a happy home where those whom I love, can rest, relax and rejuvenate. A place that’s always there for them to come back to, and that they WANT to come back to. In order to follow my dream, I have to become good at the things that she’s naturally good at! All the things I rejected!
When we went to visit her this past summer… her home was still inviting. My kids, loved being there. She loved cooking for all of us. My kids can’t understand why my brother & I can’t get along with her! Well… we do now… but we hated her before. She HAS been working on herself… and she has changed, which has made it possible for us to rebuild a relationship. She respects us and lets us do things as we see fit, and doesn’t nag as much as she used to. Also, we know she did the best she could with the knowledge and wisdom that she had. None of the things she did that harmed us, were intentional. I thought I had forgiven her already, but I have a feeling there was more to forgive. Or maybe, it’s not so much forgiveness, as an unwillingness to cut her some slack and refusing to see her as a young woman, full of fears and worries and responsibilities that we all fill up when we have kids. She was, after all, just 25 yrs old when she became a mother, and moved to a new country, where she couldn’t speak the language, where everything was new and different and she had no support system like she was used to, and she probably feared that Dad would get killed in the revolution too! I knew my sister & I got sick every month, and the nearest hospital was a 2 day trip. Every single time my kids got sick, I always felt like they would die. Today, she is a happy person that everybody loves. People value her friendship and whatever she brings into their lives! When she visited me some years back, her first time in the US, I saw a part of her in action that I didn’t know existed. We went to the nearby church for a blood draw. While she waited for me, she talked to the older ladies on the other side of the room, who were in charge of the food and drinks. I couldn’t hear what she was saying, but she had all these women surrounding her, and not only where they hooked to every word she spoke, every once in a while, they’d all burst out laughing! My mom was entertaining total strangers with her stories! I’m glad I didn’t know that side of her before, because I would’ve rejected that too, and that is so much a part of me! lol 🙂
Thanks for sharing your experiences with your mother. Perhaps that’s what created my bond with my kids, in spite of my short comings. They know I work on myself. I always share new insights with them. I apologize every time when I’ve messed up again. I give them room to make mistakes and grow too. And thanks for pointing out that a ‘big sister’ can have a mother’s qualities as well, whether she’s seen as a mother or not. “A mother by any other name… ” 🙂
~ vino
Another random thought trail – The word VALUE has been popping up a lot lately, whether from someone else or myself.
Two people from the unemployment office came by on Wednesday and we had a good chat with them. They said they can help us build a resume, if we didn’t already have one, and make it so it focuses on skills, because people are looking for skills nowadays, because skills are transferable.
So… I have been trying hard to think of what skills I have. And i’m drawing a blank. I told the manager I need his help figuring out my skills, because I know I have a few, but I don’t know how to define them. In the meantime, I’ve been trying to define them for myself and all I can come up with is that I bring a lot of value to any position I work in. I was hired as a cashier, and then I worked in the customer service position. I loved solving problems and diffusing tense situations. I loved being in charge of stuff. I loved working on the floor, helping customers. My latest responsibilities with the stock, have been more physical but so much more satisfying. Actually, I can’t say more, because for one night, I had to go back to the front end to cover for a bunch of absentees, and it was extremely exhilarating to step back into solving problems and satisfying irate customers.
The skills required to do what I do… the actual technical skills – are simple and everyone who’s on the team can do it. However, I feel like I add a certain value to whatever i’m working on. Everyone does… it’s a part of the essence of a person. I’ve experienced it in working with the others… although I like working alongside all of them, they all give off a different feel and I enjoy working with some more than others. So, I know that I have an energy too, that I give off, and I can feel it when i’m full and have a lot to give. Today, was a happy day and for whatever reason, every person I greeted, I asked them if they were happy today. I don’t usually do that. I was just feeling silly. And I made everyone smile. I love making my team members smile.
So, what should I say about my skills – that I can make anyone smile and that I can add value to any position that no one else can? What does that even mean?! lol 🙂
But, my mind went from resumes to relationships very quickly. It’s like, i’m not interested in working anymore. I only want to relate now. and I know, I can bring a value into a relationship, that only I can bring. And… the awesome thing about this value is that it’s not stagnant. I can keep becoming better and better, and as I do, that value that I bring keeps increasing.
Have you ever chosen one cashier over another at a store you go to frequently? it’s because they scan the items and bag them, with a lot of extra value!!! lol 😉
I honestly don’t care that it’s not definable enough to put on a resume! lol 🙂
~ vino
Hi Heidi & Kanya!
Thank you, for listening and for your awesome questions!
Heidi – the exercise you suggested is the same I found in the book Kanya recommended quite a while ago – John Bradshaw’s Inner child book! Awesome! I was still working through the infant section. I will move on and work through the other sections as well, I think it will help me a lot.
The reasons that Renee Wade said it’s hard for women to embrace motherhood was different from mine, although the end results are the same. Her angle was cultural – how wanting to be a mother & a wife, is seen as lesser than wanting to be a career woman. Even in societies like the one I grew up in, where women are culturally expected to be homemakers, if any girl’s deepest heart’s desire is to BE a mother & a wife, and nothing more, her dream isn’t valued as much as a girl who wants to be a teacher or a doctor or whatever.
My rejection of motherhood, wasn’t cultural, because I rejected culture long before I rejected everything else. I was exposed to so many different cultures growing up. And I hated the excuse of ‘it’s our culture’ to keep doing something that crossed someone else’s boundaries. It was used a lot. Both by Indians and Ethiopians, to continue being disrespectful to those who were different from them. On the flip side, I saw the westerners being careful of their actions and words so as not to offend those of a different culture! So, I rejected all cultures and I decided I was free to pick and choose whatever parts of any culture that valued another person. OF course, most of what I chose, was western. In all honesty, there is nothing that I have chosen that is Indian or Ethiopian. Unfortunately there are no cultures that value womanhood, motherhood, wifehood and all such feminine things.
Anyway – back to why I rejected motherhood – for me, it was personal. It was in my body. It was visceral. I couldn’t lie to myself about anything. I took each thing as it came and felt it. It didn’t feel good to be pregnant. I was uncomfortable. I was in pain. I was less graceful than usual. My face got fatter. My nose got bigger. I felt ugly. I felt icky. Childbirth is the worst experience ever. I was sure that I was either going to die, or else rip into a million little pieces. I hate pain, and I hate discomfort. I attracted unsolicited advice from every single woman who had ever experienced pregnancy, even if she didn’t know me. I hated that too. Everyone wanted to know my due date. I hated the visibility of it. It was proof that i’d had sex. I felt like all my privacy had been destroyed.
There was some book that I read, by some woman, and she mentioned how much she enjoyed her pregnancy, because it made her feel closer to her husband. Feeling the baby in her all day, made her think of him because the baby was a part of him, and she felt like he was close to her all the time, through the baby. It was a lovely picture, and I really wanted to feel that kind of a bond with a man – but I didn’t want to feel it with the ex! I also read a lot about women who hated their husbands during their pregnancies. I wasn’t about to allow my hormones dictate my feelings, so I made an effort to keep hatred and dislike out of my interactions with the ex, but what I truly longed for – was a bonding like that one woman had talked about. Because, that image that she created – it had nothing to do with anyone else – it was just her and her man in their own world and the baby was a symbol of their love. I really wanted that – a world to share with a man, a world in which nobody else exists except the two of us. And we can fill the world with what we love! Like babies. They are cute after all! lol 🙂 And puppies, which are also cute.
Well… I don’t know where I was going with that. Anyway – I never wanted a career of any sort. My goal was simple. I just wanted to be free and I wanted to have fun (and a True Friend to share my freedom and fun with). My mother was the opposite of everything that was fun and free. When I hit puberty there were even more rules to curb the freedom and the fun. My mom is well versed in expressing emotions and feelings – her entire family is, including the men. They can magnify any feeling to such a degree that you can feel what they are feeling. But, since my mom and I were at odds most of the time, I drew out her negative feelings. The one that I hated the most, was her feelings of disgust. She was disgusted by a lot of things about me, my behaviors & habits. Since I hated her, I resisted any kind of change that would please her. Even if it was something I wanted to change about myself, I couldn’t because I hated her, and couldn’t accept it when she was right.
There’s a thing that happened sometime after I hit puberty that made me hate my mom even more. I was about 11, or even less, when I got my periods. One of my classmates, who hadn’t yet started her periods, started wearing bras. I don’t know how the other girls found out, but they teased her about it. I didn’t tease her, because I envied her. I wanted a bra. So I asked my mom, and she said I was too young to be wearing bras. Maybe it was the year after, or maybe 2… we were in India, and she decided it was time for me to have a bra. We went to the store with some aunts and cousins. the stores in india are set up so all the items are on shelves against the walls and there’s counters all around and you have to ask for what you want and they get it for you. So, we walk into this little store, filled with men and women who work there, and also customers… it wasn’t very crowded, so it wasn’t noisy, and everyone heard what she said: “What size bra should I buy for my daughter who has never worn one before?” or something to that effect. Everyone looked at me so they could size me up. And a girl behind the counter suggested some options and my mom weighed in with her opinions… and I was … well.. I think I ceased to exist. Again. She only bought me two… which I used for the next 2 yrs. They didn’t fit me right. But it felt better with them on than without. I had to go without on laundry day. And I hated that. There’s a lot of things I hated. My mom probably doesn’t even remember that incident. She grew up in a large family and they were never embarrassed about anything. I was different, and she had no respect for my difference.
I never felt like she understood me, or that she was ever on my side or had my back. When she found out about the cousin who took advantage of me, it was my father’s reputation that she was concerned about, not me. She hated that I as like ‘ a stranger’ in the family. But I was. Now I know why. I didn’t know then, and I didn’t care. I didn’t want to BE a part of anything that she was a part of. She was a worrier and easily stressed and she was full of many fears. She was an excellent cook and hostess. I never learned to cook and I feel extremely uncomfortable in any hosting situations.
I remember being at a friends’ house one summer when I was 14 or so. it was her birthday, and her mom had gotten her some presents. My friend, was ecstatic, because it was something that she had really wanted. I was completely surprised. I wonder how it was that a mother could know exactly what her daughter wanted. up until that day, I didn’t even know that such a thing was possible! I had assumed that mothers didn’t know anything about their daughters, because such things aren’t possible. However, it devalued my mother further in my eyes. i was convinced that the reason she didn’t know anything about me, was because she didn’t care or love me.
Kanya – what is the downside of being a mother? it’s the ultimate freedom and fun killer. My life ended when i became a mother. of course, i couldn’t verbalize it then, like i do now. And, to be honest, i didn’t see it that way then… but i did feel a lot of stress. But, i have never, ever looked at my kids and wished they’d never been born. I only wished all the time, that i could’ve been a better mother.
And yes, there is a feeling of powerlessness & danger – i felt like i had to be perfect or else someone would take my children away from me.
I can’t redefine ‘mother’ and ‘maternal’ yet. Just drawing a totally blank. It’s going to take a lot of work. lol 🙂
But, i’m going to enjoy my weekend first! lol 🙂
~ vino
Hi Heidi!
so, i tried being more authentic with the 2nd guy… i told him his lavish compliments and long list of promises made me super uncomfortable because we haven’t even met yet, and i could never say all that back to him because i don’t know him, so him saying it to me is very confusing, and i don’t know how to respond to all the stuff he writes. He replied… with more flowery stuff… not even acknowledging my message! I haven’t written back to him after that.
I did try to find JB in whatever NYPD websites i could find. But they don’t have the names of officers listed anywhere or else i don’t know how to search for it. I know the division he works in and i could call them up… but i don’t want to embarrass him. i almost did call… in the 2 weeks that he didn’t write to me, back in Nov, because i was convinced he might be impersonating an innocent Lieutenant. But… I was just in so much distress when i doubted him, because you just can’t fake some things! I did find his LinkedIn page as well. Although there was no picture of him on that one, it did have a background picture from one of his deep sea dives.
We’ve had political discussions too! He approaches things from a perspective of ‘justice’ and i approach things from a perspective of ‘forgiveness’ so that led to some interesting discussions. lol 🙂 He reads a lot and he knows a ton of stuff and he can back up anything he says with a source. I can’t do all that, but he has never discounted my opinions, my thoughts, or my reasonings simply because i haven’t read as much as he has, and that honestly makes me feel respected. Anyway. It was great – whatever kind of discussion we got into, whether we agreed on things or disagreed, it always felt good. I’m feeling better after having shut down all my profiles. My energy and my time was bleeding out through them. I need to focus on myself, so i can wait for JB without bleeding out! AND i feel better about myself too, when i’m only talking to one man at a time!
I have been thinking about stuff i can do for myself & my daughter too! We’re both feeling the absence of a dog in our lives, so, as soon as i get my car back, we’re going to find a shelter to go to on a regular basis. Or find some neighborhood dogs! Nothing like a dog to ground you and help you focus on what matters and remind you of how to live your life! Earlier, when we talked about someone who’s a role model, and i said the only woman I’ve ever wanted to be like was Sophie, from Howl’s moving castle. In truth, my real role models are dogs. lol 🙂 I need to love like a dog does! It’s just so simple and uncomplicated and whole hearted. And doesn’t it simply feel good to be loved by a dog??!!! lol 🙂
So… an interesting thing came up… i was reading some stuff, or maybe it was an audio, by this lady called Renee Wade, and she was talking about how only the parts of yourself that you accept fully show up in your relationships, because the parts that you reject, are the parts you hide away, because you’re afraid it will ruin things for you. so, the less of yourself you reject, the more whole you are, in a relationship. Sounded good to me, so tried to figure out what it was about myself that i was rejecting and i couldn’t think of anything important. Then, she went on to say that one of the hardest things for women to accept about themselves, is their maternal instinct! and i was like OMG! i HATE EVERYTHING MATERNAL! Makes me feel like my mother! and she’s the last person on earth i want to be like! So.. i seriously need to define ‘maternal’ for myself.
When my kids were little, i used to playfully ask them every night, if they knew i loved them. I kept it light-hearted, because it’s in play that truth comes out easier. Their answer was very important to me though. my daughter has a playful question that she asks me sometimes – she says – “Mommy, are you my mommy?” and I have never, ever, ever, given her a straight answer, because i can’t say it! I can’t say, “Yes, I’m your mommy!” Or ‘Yes, i love being your mommy”. i WANT to say those things, but i can’t because they’re not TRUE! The way i relate to my children is as their Big Sister, not their mother! my kids have grown up motherless! is that messed up or what?!
But I’ve been there for them, every single day! I worked hard at everything i did for them, because i was so keenly aware of all the things that could go wrong, if i was thoughtless and careless, and didn’t focus on them. But… in what way have i hurt them, because of my inability to feel like a mother? The clinic i took them too – they addressed me as ‘mom’ and i lashed out at them once. I asked them to stop calling ‘mom’ – it just felt so icky! They made excuses, saying they didn’t know my name – i said what about Mrs C? You have my name right there on the damn chart! It just totally grossed me out to be addressed as ‘mom’ by someone i’m not a mom to! i knew i was over reacting.. but… i hated it. and i had to say something.
i read so many books about mother-child bonding, i wanted to make sure i learned how to bond with them. But, i never felt all the things that the books assumed mothers naturally feel. I hated breast feeding them. I weaned them off as soon as they became aware of where their food was coming from, because i hated being looked at like food. i couldn’t stand it if anyone else saw me breast feeding them too. I felt very invaded and violated. And yet, i grew up in cultures where breast-feeding in public was as acceptable as smiling at someone and saying ‘hello’. And i always felt uncomfortable in the presence of another women who was breastfeeding too, so i’m totally in favor of women covering themselves up when they feed their babies in public. It was especially cringy and uncomfortable, when i walked in on my sister feeding her baby. I apologized and turned away instantly and she said, it was ok for me to stay and talk, that it wouldn’t bother her or the baby… and i stayed, but it sure bothered me!
Also… it was painful, especially for the second one. And for the life of me, i never understood how women bonded with their babies while feeding them. I bonded with my children when we played and talked and cuddled, and sat together watching shows or reading, or driving someplace.
So – yeah – I’ve discovered this huge part of me that i’m completely rejecting and it’s a deeper rejection that being Indian and having a big nose and being brown. And there’s nothing amusing about it. I don’t know how to stop rejecting that part of me. I envied all women who handled their babies with such confidence. I always felt like i was babysitting my own children. I always felt like i was doing something wrong. And i was always afraid that the CPS would take them away from me for not being a good mother. there was nothing instinctual about being a mother to me. It was all external effort. WE have, of course, bonded in spite of me! and that’s good. But, maybe it’s incomplete. I don’t know.
I have a lot to work on! lol 🙂
Thanks Heidi. 🙂
JB’s mom got sick a few days after his birthday, early last month… he actually noticed something was off about her when he was with her on his birthday and mentioned it to me. Then, a few days later, his brother (whom his mom lives with) called him and told him their mom’s not been eating well, and sometimes, she just dumps all of her food in the trash. A week later, she fell when she went to the kitchen for something, and just stayed there till JB found her. They eventually convinced her to see the doctor, she got diagnosed with leukemia. She was supposed to come home after the tests, but then she got a stroke. JB told me which hospital she’s in and also her room number, although I didn’t ask. It’s not a good idea to send her anything, because then, JB would be in an awkward position of having to explain who I am.
I agree, that everything he’s been telling me, could be entirely made up. But, a few days back, I found his old account on Facebook. And all the random people he mentioned, are there – his brothers, his cousin, his last girlfriend of 7 yrs, stuff that confirms that he does do the kind of work that he says he does – he’s a Lieutenant in the NYPD. So, unless there’s a person impersonating this Lieutenant, and stalking him for 30+ years, there’s really no way all this would add up. But also… the conversations we’ve had…. when I wrote to him the very first time, I never expected a response, because I didn’t think I was his type. But his profile sounded authentic. And he said something about his faith, that I thought I’d write about. That was our very first topic of conversation. He’s Catholic, i’m orthodox, but I haven’t been to church in ages. I used to be protestant. He knows nothing about the orthodox, but he seriously dislikes protestant teachings. So, I had questions for him, and he thought I was mocking his faith. I got upset and told him to stop being so judgmental. Off to a great start, eh? lol 🙂 He asked for my email so he could send me some links to explain the things he was trying to tell me. Since I don’t like to talk about things I know nothing about, I watched the videos he sent, except the one that was an hour long, I told him I didn’t have time for it.
Then, I gave him my honest feedback and I got this response from him: “I deeply appreciate how introspective, thoughtful, honest and sincere a woman you are. The way you write is so flowing and personal. After I read your mail, I feel as if we actually spoke in person over tea (I gave up coffee in July due to health reasons)”. He went from thinking I was mocking him, to that, in just a 3 or 4 days of heated discussions. lol 🙂 I’ve had many religious discussions over the years. It’s a great topic to get all riled up about. It’s only in the last 10 yrs or so, that I decided I was just stroking my own ego whenever I engaged in religious discussions, because I have a way of saying things that makes it difficult to argue with. Not really great for building relationships, so I quit. And I got tired of just being full of information. However, if someone says something to me that I know differently, I can’t stay silent and let them assume I agree with them. So, I’ve experienced discussions with those who truly know what they believe, and also those who just blindly believe all they’ve been taught. JB knows what he believes, and is a pleasure to talk to, even if there’s disagreement. lol 🙂
So, after religion, we talked about sex! I brought it up! I told him I left the church to sort myself out because I had all these desires that were just all grouped under WORST SIN ever. So.. I had to figure out… if I truly was an adulterous woman, if I didn’t have any rules to follow. And then… he wrote me the longest email ever, telling me how he’s been tormented with the same struggles for his entire life. But he didn’t feel the need to leave the church like I did. Strangely enough, talking to JB about these seemingly opposite topics, suddenly created a desire in me to… return to church, of all things!
I feel like I’ve been on a complete adventure with him, with the MOST unexpected twists and turns ever! I’ve never been able to talk religion and sex with the same person, ever before. JB understands the intense attraction of both! When I left the church, I wondered what would have to happen in order for me to think about returning. Of all the things that I imagined, having an honest discussion about sexual desires wasn’t even on the list! ROFL 😀
Relationships – the gray area – here’s where my biggest problem is – mostly because I don’t know what I truly want! And here again, JB is safe, because he’s in no rush to get into a committed relationship. His longest relationship was with his last girlfriend – 7 yrs. And he’s not sure if he’s over her yet – she left him 4 yrs ago, when he couldn’t bring himself to propose to her after 7 yrs. He had another girlfriend in his 30s, whom he connected with on many levels as well, but she wanted to settle down and have kids sooner than he was ready to. When he mentioned both of them, he was full of remorse, for having broken their hearts, and I wonder if he’s afraid of breaking a heart again. AS for me… why I do not want to commit to JB – well, for one thing… I don’t even know if I will connect with him when we meet! and also… i’m not sure how much I truly matter to him. I initiate most of our conversations. Sometimes he ignores questions that I ask, although he has said several times that I could ask him Absolutely Anything. Then there’s a big thing we agree on – i’m not ready to deal with family and friends knowing I’m in search of a relationship with a man. I want to live my life as I want to, without my family and friends getting involved. I don’t want my relationship to JB labelled! And he feels the same way. On the flip side… i’m terrified that I will get attached to him deeply and want to be in a relationship later on… and he still won’t want to. there’s a part of me that says, he’s the safest person to take such a risk with! And then, there’s a part of me that says – yes, but the pain, will be deep. Perhaps deeper than any that I’ve ever known. and my risky side says – yeah… but some things (and people) are worth the pain.
The other men I’ve been writing to – you’re good Heidi! lol 🙂 yeah, you’re right, JB’s not the reason I’m not able to connect with them. it’s because I don’t feel the authenticity from them. When JB says something good about me, it feels real. Maybe because he first came at me from a judgmental angle. I don’t know. He just doesn’t come across as a person who just throws out words thoughtlessly. It feels like he means what he says. Those other men… I haven’t said or done anything for them to think i’m as wonderful as they say I am. We haven’t discussed anything of depth or value, and so, I have no idea why they keep saying flattering things about me. It’s actually annoying. lol 🙂 and the reason I feel like I can’t just tell them the truth is because — I don’t want to hurt them! they seem like nice guys. Isn’t it gentler to say that there’s this other guy i’m not over yet?
I asked JB if I could visit him, and he said I could, but he wants things to settle down with his mom first. So, either when she’s out of the hospital, or if she doesn’t make it. He said she’s getting more and more frail, he’s too heartbroken to think of anything else right now. The entire feel of his messages has changed – really short and so stressed. So, when he’s ready, i’ll go visit him. The bus or train will take me 3 hrs and an Uber will cost $70! If I drive, i’ll have to deal with city traffic and roads, which totally stress me out. So, I still haven’t figured out how i’ll get there! lol 🙂 Not so easy to plan a meeting after all! But, I feel better after shutting down my profiles on the dating sites . I’m going to wait for JB and see where it goes. But, it’s SO frustrating to wait again!!!! I can’t even get mad at him, because his mom is sick!
~ vino
JB update – We were planning on meeting in January. Then his mother got sick. Very sick. She is now in the hospital and he’s totally stressed out. He’s with her whenever he is free.
I wasn’t going to stop writing to other men while waiting for JB to make up his mind. That’s how I ended up having a great conversation with the Fun Guy and went out with another guy although I knew we had nothing in common.
Well… I found two more men to write to in the last 2 weeks. They’re both currently overseas for the their jobs. One of them will be coming back in 2 months, and the other in 4 months. They’re both … it’s weird. They’re giving me too much attention. Good mornings and good nights and have you eaten and lavish compliments about how i’m every man’s dream.
It got too stressful so when one of them messaged me a few minutes back, I told him about JB, just so he’d know where i’m at. I’ve cancelled all my online profiles and when the other guy gets online, i’m going to tell him about JB too. it’s too stressful talking to them. I cannot connect with them AT ALL! I think JB is in the way! I think about him every day! I see his pictures and they make me happy! I get sporadic updates on his mom and every once in a while, I check in on him and that’s what our communication has been reduced to, and yet… I cannot cut myself away from him!
I don’t even want to be in a relationship with him, because I don’t think he values me as much as I value him. Or at least, he doesn’t have as much time for me as I want him to! So, why can’t I let him go? I feel like I have given him all of me. except my body. And there’s nothing left for anyone else. he’s not getting my body!!!!
I was going to go visit him, but my car is in the garage for yet another week, and i’m so mad.
Hi Kanya,
I do not view belonging as ownership and control. That’s so full of negativity!
to me, to belong (to a family or a community or even just one other person), means that there’s someone on my side, someone who has my back, someone whom I can rely on to hold space for me when I need to recover, someone I don’t have to guard myself from. I’ve been my own shield and armor and weapon and sentry all my life. I’ve had to be strong for myself and for anyone else who happens into my life. I feel like I’ve been on duty 24/7 all of my life. Sure there’s people to share my joy, but I’ve always cried alone. Because I don’t belong. I don’t matter to anyone like they matter to me. I am able and willing to take people as they are, and accept them as they are and be a good friend. I’d like the same in return. I need to be known fully and accepted completely and loved unconditionally. That is what it means to me to belong. That is what I am capable of offering.
these are my own thoughts. my own feelings. my own desires. thoughts that feel real and true to me. belonging is safety and freedom.
~ vino
A few moments ago, I recognized a very new feeling in myself. I am aware that I am feeling depressed, and I have lost my peace somewhere. In my mind, I picture myself as having fallen into a hole, whenever I feel this way. Normally, I just sit for a while wishing someone would lend me a hand, and then, I gather myself up and start climbing out because I know no man wants to go around rescuing needy women in holes.
But, for the first time… I pictured a woman throwing me a rope to help me out of my hole, and … interestingly, I was perfectly ok with it! I’ve never been willing to share my weaknesses with a woman or be helped by a woman! I guess healing happens even when i’m not directly focusing on it! lol 🙂 at any rate, i’m glad you’re a woman and I can’t imagine having had these 6 pages of conversations with a man!
So, thank you for being a cool woman, Heidi!
~ vino
Hi Heidi,
yes, all the things I mentioned, that make me feel beautiful or attractive, are external. The inside things that matter more, that make a person whole – to me, those are the things about me that help me be at peace with myself, and sleep well at night, and go to work with the confidence that I make a difference to my team, and that may presence matters.
When I was working as a home health aide, one of the things I always asked the folks I took care of was – what makes you want to wake up in the morning? what keeps you going each day even though you’ve lost so much of your independence? — I was not making conversation. I was hoping to learn from them, what made life worth living, when you lose more and more of your body.
I watch stories of people who have overcome disabilities and challenges, trying to find their secret to enjoying life with disabilities, but I cannot find it for myself. If anything were to happen to me externally, like most of my skin getting burned off, or something else that leaves me super disfigured, I would no longer look for a man to share my life with. Same with getting old. When I become as old as those people I was taking care of, and I need help to get around… what’s left to share? And yet, I’ve read stories of people meeting someone in nursing homes! Me… i’d just close that door after a while.
Even now, i’m close to closing it. I wonder if keeping the door to romance open, is just preventing me from getting on with my life and … I don’t know. I don’t know what I want with my life. I never had any plans for it, from the time I was a child, other than to just be happy and belong to someone who wanted me to belong to them. I don’t think everyone gets the desires of their hearts before they die. I could very well be one of those whose dreams never come true.
At least, I have more happy days than sad days now. Perhaps the little things that bring happiness are enough, even if I never belong to anyone till I die. Maybe it’s wrong to be so greedy and want everything. Although I feel like it’s only one thing that I’ve wanted…? I don’t know.
If I do talk to any of my friends, (I probably won’t) – it won’t be in hopes of getting their help for me to find healing. It’s just a desire to be known, that’s all. There was one lady, who was surprised when she found out i’d just gotten out of an abusive marriage of too many years. She thought I was living the perfect life because she’s only seen me happy. It wasn’t a fake happiness. I truly am happy most of the time. It’s only when those thoughts surface, the feelings of – who do I matter to? that’s when things fall apart.
This week, at work… It was a good week. It tested me physically, since I had to wake up at 5am and 6am several days in a row. But I was good when I got to work. And I was happy. I even went back on Thursday, to do an extra shift because several people called out. I worked at the customer service that night, solving everybody’s problems and cleaning up the mess in the front and being in charge of all the cashiers and I loved every minute of it! It was my favorite manager who was on duty that night, and he had lots of work to do in the back and he trusted me with his username and password so I could deal with issues that happened at the front without having to call him each time!!!
I feel so much strength in me when i’m at work, and when i’m talking to people – strangers, friends or family, when i’m making decisions, and just living my life. But, I can’t answer the question – who do I belong to? And that cripples me. I need to belong. I’m not the hermit that I thought I was when I was younger. That was just my pain speaking, pretending I was a hermit, pretending I needed no one so I could survive somehow. For what reason I have survived, I cannot say. If I weren’t such a coward, I would’ve taken my life a long time ago or at least not tried to save myself when I was in situations where i could’ve lost my life!
i can’t and i won’t pretend anymore. i’m not a hermit. I do need to belong. I value my life a bit more than i used to. My kids need me now, so i’m not going to anything reckless that might kill me. That’s all I’ve got for now.
~ vino
Hey you guys… thanks for your replies and for all the questions! I haven’t been able to focus on anything for the last few days – there’s a storm brewing inside of me. lol 🙂
“What is the reason you believe that men you are attracted to will not be attracted to you? It is interesting that you share that YOU don’t find Indian people attractive. I believe that you may be projecting this belief on to others. Can you remember a time when you did feel attractive? Can you remember anyone in your childhood or reinforced that you are a beautiful person? What were some of the messages you received as a child that may have contributed to this belief system?”
I agree – I could totally be projecting my own feelings about Indians on others. Growing up, I never felt attractive. I was never told to my face that I was ugly – although it came close when this lady told me my sister was beautiful unlike me. And, the woman-talk that I listened to, whenever a bunch of families got together, was very unhelpful. They ALWAYS talked about the external attractiveness of the young girls at least once. Comments like: “She’s beautiful although she is black” were common. They discussed hair, height, shape of nose, eyes, feet, fingers…! everything! I would take mental notes and go look in the mirror to see what I had that counted as ‘beautiful’. I had my hair, but only because it was thick and long, it would’ve been prettier if it was curly. That’s all I had. They never spoke about a girl who was present. So, was I wrong to assume that I would’ve been spoken about in my absence? I knew the standards they used against the other girls would’ve been the same that they used against me. So, I knew what I looked like through their eyes, even though they never said it. I don’t know how the men talked about the women & girls. I’m sure they did too. I do not know how different their standards were. But based on the amount of attention I received from boys and men, I assumed it was quite similar to the standards I learned from the women. It was interesting to me, when I learned from my classmates, that they always wanted to be smart like me. I just wanted to be pretty like them. I think, in general, Indian women are quite attractive (except for me) – and men, not so much. Unless they take good care of their bodies, which most of them don’t.
It isn’t just the outside that makes an Indian unattractive. It’s their general attitude about themselves and other people as well. In a nutshell, Indians are extremely arrogant. Every other race of people is beneath them. They resent white people because the white skin is the one thing on their ‘attractive list’ that they will never win on. lol 🙂 They relate to people from a place of superiority. I find it very difficult to have conversations with Indian people. I stop them the minute they say anything about anyone else that is judgmental, but I know I haven’t stopped them from being judgmental on the inside, so any further conversation is usually strained. I’ve asked so many people why they just don’t go back to where they came from. Why suffer here? They don’t like it. They think Americans are racist. Nobody is forcing them to live here. I like it here. This is my home. I don’t want it to change to whatever they want to change it into. If their countries and governments are so much better than this one, why the hell do they even come here?! I happen to value what this country has to offer, and it’s the people who lived here that created its value. Anyway… on the outside, I look all Indian. On the inside, there’s nothing Indian about me. But, for those who’ve experienced the arrogance of Indians as I have, unless they get to know me, I will be seen as an “Indian” too – inside and out. So, I feel like I always have to struggle a bit to be truly known.
As for the kind of men I am attracted to – they have always been friends with me – but none ever wanted to date me. The man I married was the only one who ever wanted to date me. He wasn’t white though. Chinese American. I thought the American part of him may have saved him from the Chinese part of him, which isn’t very different from Indian. I was wrong. Even when we were dating and didn’t hate each other, he never said I was attractive, but then, he turned out to be gay, so what does he know, right? I don’t know how white men see me. Straight white men! lol 🙂 Nor women either, for that matter. I don’t think it’s very polite to go around talking about how one looks, right? I’m not attracted to white men who don’t take care of themselves either, or say in their profile that they are athletic when they aren’t!
I do feel beautiful, when my body is feeling strong and not bloated up. When I can move gracefully and with precision. When I wake up in the morning and my face isn’t puffy. When I have a good hair day. 🙂 When my skin isn’t dry and cracking, or reacting to something. So, I take care of myself. I eat healthy, for the most part. I exercise a little. And i’m planning to do more stuff physically, because I’ve begun to enjoy it more – walking outside in harsh weather has been kind of exhilarating lately. I’m waiting to get my car back from the shop – I have to sign up for a Krav Maga class! I feel the need to fight lately. lol 🙂
“I love that you are opening up to some potential with new people. What if you start by focusing on building solid friendships with the men that are in your life. It sounds like there are several at work that you could get to know better. Who are the people outside of work that you can deepen your connections with?”
The Men in my life – the ones I work with – are all married. lol 🙂 I don’t know any men from out of work. Work has been my only escape for the past however many years. My safe place. My home. if I could’ve taken my kids with me I would’ve never left the store. lol 🙂 I made friends with a WW2 Marine Vet before Christmas – he was at a Toys for Tots table and we had a good chat. I was planning to get back in touch with him to see if he’ll let me tag along on some of the volunteer work that he does.
That was interesting video, Kanya. Skin tone doesn’t get in the way of friendships for me. It does get in the way of physical attraction. And I don’t think one can control what one is attracted to, right? idk. new place for me. lol 🙂
Heidi, everything you’ve said makes sense 🙂 you’re right, burying isn’t healing. I have shared most of it in writing, with friends. But, do I actually have to share it in person? I don’t find talking to a therapist to be of the same value as talking to a friend. I had a good one, but one day, when I was upset about something and I told her I’d been desperate to talk to a friend, she told me I could’ve called her. But I never saw her as a friend, I always saw her as a therapist. Some things, were helpful to talk with her – usually the stuff that had to do with just me. But talking about the ex – idk. I already know that the things he said were all untrue. I want those whom I love, and who love me, to know my pain. To know me. Not a therapist who has one eye on the clock while listening to me, and to whom I don’t matter. idk. I’m conflicted about therapists. I know they can help a lot. But my true desire is to be known. By a few, not by the world. lol 🙂 I don’t care if my mom doesn’t know. Or my siblings. They know a little bit more than mom does. I can’t let my kids know. Or their cousins. They’re children, and there’s nothing good that will come of their knowing. Perhaps the women whom I’ve become friends with at work…? idk. that might actually be an option, I don’t feel 100% against it! They’ve only seen the work side of me, which is very well adjusted and strong. It means I will cry in their presence, because just thinking about sharing everything is making the tears start to happen.
well.. I have to get to work now… thanks for letting me share, thanks for listening. 🙂
~ vino
So… deep down, underneath it all, the truth is, I don’t believe that the kind of men I am attracted to, would find me to be worth pursuing. Because I am not white. I am Indian, and not one of the attractive ones at that. I am attracted to top quality, white men. Those are the kinds of men, who showed me I was worth being a friend to. The others, the ones I grew up with who are brown like me, are the ones who – well – the best way I can see them is as brothers.
I cannot become white or prettier. I don’t find Indians attractive, why would anyone else find me attractive? I wonder if that’s why i’m attracting white men who are unavailable emotionally or physically because of distance, etc, etc. Either that, or non-white men.
I have never experienced racism except from other Indians. Not a single white person I’ve ever known, male or female, has ever looked down on me or treated me differently because I wasn’t white. But attraction is something different, right? It’s not the same as being not racist.
I don’t think online dating is the right thing for me. Today, at work, I had a very unusual thought, when one of the older women who said something about the Asst. Manager. She said all kinds of good things about him, and said several times, how much she liked working with him and I thought – ‘omg! she sees him as I see him! I wonder if she has the same taste in men that I do! maybe she knows someone who’s available….’
I made 2 new friends today. The pizza man, who recognized my credit card, and the man from the liquidating company that I originally decided I didn’t like because of how he talked to our manager. I wasn’t the only one who disliked his condescending tone and his bossy attitude. But… he was different today. Maybe he’s trying to change how he communicates. He does get worked up a bit, unlike our managers. Today was the first day I spent any length of time talking directly to him. As we worked through the issue together, he kept apologizing for his stress, and wondered that I was still able to smile. I told him we rarely have a day without something in the system glitching and it was no big deal. I overheard him apologizing to our asst manager later on, and he thanked me for working hard and asked if i’d had some of the donuts and pastries he’d purchased for us. And I thought to myself – wow, I gained the respect of someone I didn’t like! lol 🙂
I just realized, as i was re-reading my post – that the feeling of ‘not wanting to be seen as a part of a family’ – wasn’t a new feeling that developed within the marriage. I had the same feeling when i was growing up. I didn’t fit in my own family and didn’t like being seen as a part of them! I wanted to be seen as different from them, and i didn’t know how to separate myself from them.
i didn’t value them enough to be happy being a part of them.
sigh. seems i have deep issues. lol 🙂
