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I wish I could make up for what I put him through. Madeline, there is NOTHING to make up for. You were doing the best you could and your fear was valid. I know narcissists all to well and they are absolutely scary! And you did it! You did something sooooo major! AND….when you truly forgive yourself, then you will feel free from the whole thing and there will be NOTHING to make up for.
Listen…pain is a GIFT!!! It is the pain we feel that reveal the cracks in our system where our other hurts live. Pain shines a light on those DEEP cracks and gives us the opportunity to explore what’s in there and release what we have been holding onto. That’s how pain is here to serve each and every one of us. So while it absolutely SUCKS that you caused him great heartache by your choices, it is only shining a light on the other stuff he is holding onto from his past that NEEDS to be released if he is ever going to be free to truly love you or anyone else again. AND…that fact that it is a GREAT hurt, that’s showing that your choices were pressing on stuff he has been holding onto anyways, so yes you hurt him, but the level of hurt he felt is on HIM, not you. He has to take that journey on his own to his insides and it is NOT up to you to try and “make up” for his pain. You need to forgive and he needs to forgive and if neither of you can do that, there is no moving forward with a clean slate.
I know I could if given the chance, I guess that’s part of what I’m struggling to let go of too, my regret and guilt, and knowing I could do it right, now that I’ve faced my past. Regret and guilt are so incredibly powerful aren’t they? “what if I had done something different” is a feeling and thought that can torture someone for the rest of their lives. Here is what I know. If it wasn’t this, it would have been something different. There is always an illusion thinking that if you had made a different choice, that the outcome would have been different. You would still be together. The truth is, what lives deep within us, ALWAYS gets revealed in love. Love exposes EVERYTHING at some point in time, so even though your choices caused hurt, he has stuff living within him too that sabotages connection….as you are now experiencing and seeing about him. So even if you had faced your ex sooner, at some point, you both would have had to face another type of challenge. AND….let’s not forget that you faced one of the greatest fears of your life. Your freedom from the choice you made to finally face your ex is worth more than your guy. The loss of him motivated you and that’s the level of pain you needed to be in, in order to face your greatest fear. It’s just how it turned out and I want you to trust that there is no mistake in that. I know it feels like a mistake and I know how regret tortures you with that idea, but having lived the kind of life I have lived….there is one thing I am certain of…there are no mistakes. There is a timing to things, there are specific lessons that NEED to be learned, there are synchronicities far beyond what we will ever see. Trust that there is no mistake in what happened and that your relationship broke because of BOTH of you.
It’s such a tragic situation. I wish I could fast forward, or go back, or undo some of what I’ve done. But that’s not how it works! I don’t want to hurt him more. I won’t go there. It’s not fair and I don’t want to put him through more pain or stress. Thank you for pointing that out to me… I need to keep my compassion for him in my sights. Yes, it’s sad Madeline. But what isn’t sad is the strength you will gain by walking through the fire of this pain. What isn’t sad is that you will face your fears sooner than later now. What isn’t sad, is that the next love that comes into your life, whether with him or someone else, you will be a better partner. What isn’t sad is that you are becoming MORE of who you are and you are becoming a better version of yourself because of this. So is it really tragic??? I’d say not.
Heidi
Hi Darya,
First, thank you for sharing your poem. It truly is beautiful and so so powerful. I could feel the depth of you and you marrying the struggle and the beauty together as one. You are connected to some very deep and hard truths of life. Wow!
Yes, I want to leave here, but only because I don’t have people left who love me and with whom I feel comfortable here. Isn’t it natural to want to be around people who make you happy, like my son and my grandchildren? I won’t stop working on my personal growth, I can do that from wherever I live, right? What do you suggest? Stay where I am and continue to communicate with that guy and my sister? Isn’t that an escape from the problem? Of course it’s natural to want to be around people who love you. And yes, you can grow wherever you live! I’m not saying you should stay or not go. I’m saying to look deeper into it. I have lived MANY places where I knew absolutely no one. I had to start completely from scratch and that meant that I had to face being alone and finding ways to find comfort and connection within myself, until I built up my world again. I moved every 2 years for about 15 years to a new place – either a new state or a completely different city far from where I was at. I learned how to create home within myself and not rely on others to make me feel that. I learned how to create new connections each time and find my support system. There is an emptiness that lives within you filled by toxic people – so when they go away or betray you, you are in that void again and in suffering. All I’m doing is encouraging you to do it different this time. Learn how to fill yourself up and strengthen your inner landscape so that WHEN your life falls apart around you, you don’t go with it. But if you are drawn to move closer to your other family, then do it, but don’t stop fighting for yourself. Make sure that you don’t fill that void with your son and grandkids – keep doing the inner work!
Meeting someone doesn’t necessarily mean starting a new serious love relationship, it can just be friendship. While you have that intention, it’s not based on truth. If you are “dating” then, it’s assumed that any guy you meet is looking for a love interest, especially at your age…or they are looking for sex. Either way, friendship is NOT on the table. If you just wanted friendship, then go make female friends and stay away from men. Men and women CANNOT be just friends on any deep level. Surface friends, sure…but considering the state you are in right now, staying away from men completely is the wisest choice.
Why couldn’t he have the courage to tell me he was done? Why did he leave his foot in the door? Wasn’t he sure he didn’t want to come back someday? But it wasn’t fair to me to give him false hope. I understand all of these questions. I know you are confused. Would you be willing to just let those questions go unanswered? You are trying to find the answers to questions because you are trying to get out of pain, by having a deeper understanding of the “why” behind his choices. We all do this AND that is not where you are going to find relief. I want to invite you into acceptance. The answers to all of these questions DO NOT change the outcome. So do the answers really matter? The answer to all these questions is that he is deeply wounded, so his response to life is going to be confusing. He is so split, so one moment he feels one way and then the next he feels a completely different way. This is DEEP wounding – so he is just as confused as you are. So yes, he wanted to be with you AND no he doesn’t want to be with you. That’s the best he could ever offer you and that has nothing to do with you. It’s best if you stop yourself from spinning in circles to try to make sense of a guy who has 2 VERY strong parts of him who feel 2 VERY different ways towards you. He is NOT whole. He is NOT integrated.
I actually signed up for a few online courses based on ideas from Joe Dispenza, John Kehoe, etc. They are helpful, but it takes a long time to complete all the assignments. But I do my best, I do it at my own pace and I don’t give up. While courses can be helpful, you need someone to talk to. You have sooooo many stories and lies running around in that head of yours, you need someone to guide you through the mess and chaos you are managing right now.
I think I’m running out of time to build a new full-fledged relationship. As I age, I lose my attractiveness and self-confidence. Who the heck has taught you this? There is NO truth in this statement. I know PLENTY of women who are absolutely gorgeous in their 70s and 80s. It’s NEVER too late to fall in love and have a relationship. Where the heck did this belief system come from? If your self confidence is tied to how you look, then NOW is the perfect time to face that. You are lovable and worth knowing, regardless of what you look like. I know men in their 70s who deeply love their overweight, wrinkled wives! I understand your fears as society has contributed to this thought system, but I want to invite you to strengthen yourself BEYOND this thought system. DO NOT give your power away to those lies.
Heidi
Hi Madeline! Thank you for sharing more detail. It’s helpful in understanding your mindset and what has happened up to this point.
It makes me so mad that he’s letting fear stand in the way of the amazing life we could share. Yes! This is absolutely sad AND I imagine you would understand his fear as you put him through the same exact thing for 2.5 years. Your fear stopped growth and intimacy and your future together – so you KNOW how powerful fear is.
Unfortunately, very few people are equipped in handling fear, especially when it comes to love. It’s super tough, because the reality is, love is unpredictable and you can’t control what the other will do or who they choose to be, so in essence, we are ALL powerless in relationships – and that’s where fear thrives….people become terrified of feeling powerless to fix things or change things or being hurt by their partner’s choices…as you are experiencing now. Whatever his fear is, it’s MASSIVE and it’s more powerful than any love he feels – just like your fear was.
The other day I text all this nonsense basically begging him to reply. Sayibig I was going crazy with frusration and just wanted to have a conversation, nothing scary. He didn’t respond. So the hnext day I apoliogized and said sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me and for pestering him, and telling him he’ll always be my hero for pulling me out of the dark and making me take my power back. Listen Madeline, you are going crazy because you keep fighting against what is. This is what powerlessness does. It brings in a level of suffering that feels unbearable. I want to invite you into surrendering to what is happening. The more you fight it, the more your misery and suffering will grow. Instead, work towards acceptance as that is where you will find peace. It doesn’t mean you won’t hurt, acceptance just means the added layer of suffering and your need to reach out to him in the way you do, will not be there. Acceptance also doesn’t mean that your situation can’t change, because it absolutely can change. Acceptance just means you stop fighting against it. I know this is much easier said than done though.
I’m working with another relationship coach who is considering letting me drive to where he lives and confront him, bc my need for closure is just getting the better of me. I want to strongly advise against this for 2 reasons. First, he has clearly put up some boundaries. I don’t care how much hurt you are in, it’s not a reason to cross someone else’s boundaries. All you will be communicating to him is that you don’t respect his choice and that you are going to FORCE what you want and ignore what he has decided. That is disrespectful and very dishonoring of him. Second, you DO NOT need to talk to him to get closure. I know that’s what you believe, but it’s not true. I have created closure for myself countless times without ever talking to those who have hurt me. Closure is all yours WITHOUT ever talking to him. Closure means forgiving him and his choice. Closure means forgiving yourself for your choices. Closure means accepting his choice. Closure means facing the pain directly instead of trying to avoid it by forcing or begging him to talk to you. Closure means surrendering to how powerless you are. I want to invite you to do the work instead of looking to HIM to fix your pain. You can heal all on your Madeline. I know that is not what you want to do and I deeply understand that. However, there are MANY gifts in this for you and skills that you can develop if you work with your pain on your own. AND….by doing that, you will be clearing out old baggage as well – and who’s to say that at some point along the way, your guy decides to open back up to you. But I will tell you this…the more you chase him, the more you keep crossing his boundaries, the more you will cause him to reinforce his walls and the more he will lose respect for you. You are letting your desperation take over and that is no way to solve anything.
I wish he would just give me a chance. Talk, no pressure just talk to me. It’s really unfair. I know it’s unfair. It wasn’t fair for you to choose your ex for those 2.5 years while he begged you to do something about it. That wasn’t fair either, so instead of getting upset with him for his choices, how about you find the same level of patience that he showed you. He lasted for 2.5 years and you haven’t even made it a few months without crossing his boundaries several times.
>I have considered reaching out to 2 of his friends, or one of their wives, but have never done it bc I think it would annoy him. Again, DO NOT do this. All you will do is teach him that you will not respect his boundaries. I guarantee you that reaching out this HIS people will only anger him, not annoy him, but anger him. Be patient. HE NEEDS to be the one to come to you WHEN HE IS READY. That may or may not happen, who knows. Either way, trying to reconnect with him by ignoring his boundaries is NOT what is going to open him back up to you. Besides, even if you did force your way into standing in front of him, most likely his energy will be closed, his walls will be up, and it won’t be an open conversation. If he comes to you, that means his heart will be OPEN to talking. That’s what you want, right?? The best way to do that is to respect his choice, deal with your pain, find acceptance and keep moving forward.
But I think he also holds grudges. I just worry that I broke his heart and he’s just too afraid to be vulnerable one more time. He was vulnerable with me, and I messed it up. Listen Madeline, you may have broken his heart, but he is a grown man and his choice to block you and ignore you is HIS choice. There isn’t a person alive who hasn’t had a broken heart at least once…if not several times. We each have a choice of how we will respond to that. For him, he is choosing to shut down. He is choosing to let fear wall off his heart. If he holds onto grudges like you think, that means he doesn’t know how and is not willing to forgive completely. So that means his heart is paying the price for those choices and that means he never openly and whole heartedly is able to love anyone. So yes, you made many mistakes and you are doing everything you can right those mistakes. If he is not able to forgive and let go of the pain he carries from all of that, then that is on HIM and has nothing to do with you. DO NOT take responsibility for his choice to shut down. Yes, you hurt him, but that is what is guaranteed in relationships and the ones that make it, are the ones that work through things TOGETHER and they CHOOSE to forgive. He is showing you that he is not willing to do that….at least not at this point. So forgive yourself, forgive him, respect his choice and say goodbye to your relationship. Again, saying goodbye means you letting go of how things used to be. It doesn’t mean a new relationship cannot be created by the both of you down the road. It just means that you needs to deal with TODAY only.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I know you so badly want to get out of this pain. But I want to encourage you to step into it and allow this pain to be your teacher. You faced a MASSIVE fear with your ex and you won. If you can do that, you can face this pain head on and work towards healing.
If you want some help, I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is the most brilliant person I know when it comes to healing. She will require you to do the work though and maybe you are not ready for that. I don’t know. You may decide to give into your desperation and do whatever it takes to get in front of him. And while that is not the course of action I suggest, I understand why you would want to go that route. I know I’ve done that before and I paid the price – and maybe that’s what needs to happen for you. I honor that choice as sometimes it’s the most painful way to learn, which is many times the best way we learn.
I believe in you though. You are stronger than you think.
Heidi
Hi Madeline! Thank you for sharing more detail. It’s helpful in understanding your mindset and what has happened up to this point.
It makes me so mad that he’s letting fear stand in the way of the amazing life we could share. Yes! This is absolutely sad AND I imagine you would understand his fear as you put him through the same exact thing for 2.5 years. Your fear stopped growth and intimacy and your future together – so you KNOW how powerful fear is.
Unfortunately, very few people are equipped in handling fear, especially when it comes to love. It’s super tough, because the reality is, love is unpredictable and you can’t control what the other will do or who they choose to be, so in essence, we are ALL powerless in relationships – and that’s where fear thrives….people become terrified of feeling powerless to fix things or change things or being hurt by their partner’s choices…as you are experiencing now. Whatever his fear is, it’s MASSIVE and it’s more powerful than any love he feels – just like your fear was.
The other day I text all this nonsense basically begging him to reply. Sayibig I was going crazy with frusration and just wanted to have a conversation, nothing scary. He didn’t respond. So the hnext day I apoliogized and said sorry for letting my emotions get the better of me and for pestering him, and telling him he’ll always be my hero for pulling me out of the dark and making me take my power back. Listen Madeline, you are going crazy because you keep fighting against what is. This is what powerlessness does. It brings in a level of suffering that feels unbearable. I want to invite you into surrendering to what is happening. The more you fight it, the more your misery and suffering will grow. Instead, work towards acceptance as that is where you will find peace. It doesn’t mean you won’t hurt, acceptance just means the added layer of suffering and your need to reach out to him in the way you do, will not be there. Acceptance also doesn’t mean that your situation can’t change, because it absolutely can change. Acceptance just means you stop fighting against it. I know this is much easier said than done though.
I’m working with another relationship coach who is considering letting me drive to where he lives and confront him, bc my need for closure is just getting the better of me. I want to strongly advise against this for 2 reasons. First, he has clearly put up some boundaries. I don’t care how much hurt you are in, it’s not a reason to cross someone else’s boundaries. All you will be communicating to him is that you don’t respect his choice and that you are going to FORCE what you want and ignore what he has decided. That is disrespectful and very dishonoring of him. Second, you DO NOT need to talk to him to get closure. I know that’s what you believe, but it’s not true. I have created closure for myself countless times without ever talking to those who have hurt me. Closure is all yours WITHOUT ever talking to him. Closure means forgiving him and his choice. Closure means forgiving yourself for your choices. Closure means accepting his choice. Closure means facing the pain directly instead of trying to avoid it by forcing or begging him to talk to you. Closure means surrendering to how powerless you are. I want to invite you to do the work instead of looking to HIM to fix your pain. You can heal all on your Madeline. I know that is not what you want to do and I deeply understand that. However, there are MANY gifts in this for you and skills that you can develop if you work with your pain on your own. AND….by doing that, you will be clearing out old baggage as well – and who’s to say that at some point along the way, your guy decides to open back up to you. But I will tell you this…the more you chase him, the more you keep crossing his boundaries, the more you will cause him to reinforce his walls and the more he will lose respect for you. You are letting your desperation take over and that is no way to solve anything.
I wish he would just give me a chance. Talk, no pressure just talk to me. It’s really unfair. I know it’s unfair. It wasn’t fair for you to choose your ex for those 2.5 years while he begged you to do something about it. That wasn’t fair either, so instead of getting upset with him for his choices, how about you find the same level of patience that he showed you. He lasted for 2.5 years and you haven’t even made it a few months without crossing his boundaries several times.
>I have considered reaching out to 2 of his friends, or one of their wives, but have never done it bc I think it would annoy him. Again, DO NOT do this. All you will do is teach him that you will not respect his boundaries. I guarantee you that reaching out this HIS people will only anger him, not annoy him, but anger him. Be patient. HE NEEDS to be the one to come to you WHEN HE IS READY. That may or may not happen, who knows. Either way, trying to reconnect with him by ignoring his boundaries is NOT what is going to open him back up to you. Besides, even if you did force your way into standing in front of him, most likely his energy will be closed, his walls will be up, and it won’t be an open conversation. If he comes to you, that means his heart will be OPEN to talking. That’s what you want, right?? The best way to do that is to respect his choice, deal with your pain, find acceptance and keep moving forward.
But I think he also holds grudges. I just worry that I broke his heart and he’s just too afraid to be vulnerable one more time. He was vulnerable with me, and I messed it up. Listen Madeline, you may have broken his heart, but he is a grown man and his choice to block you and ignore you is HIS choice. There isn’t a person alive who hasn’t had a broken heart at least once…if not several times. We each have a choice of how we will respond to that. For him, he is choosing to shut down. He is choosing to let fear wall off his heart. If he holds onto grudges like you think, that means he doesn’t know how and is not willing to forgive completely. So that means his heart is paying the price for those choices and that means he never openly and whole heartedly is able to love anyone. So yes, you made many mistakes and you are doing everything you can right those mistakes. If he is not able to forgive and let go of the pain he carries from all of that, then that is on HIM and has nothing to do with you. DO NOT take responsibility for his choice to shut down. Yes, you hurt him, but that is what is guaranteed in relationships and the ones that make it, are the ones that work through things TOGETHER and they CHOOSE to forgive. He is showing you that he is not willing to do that….at least not at this point. So forgive yourself, forgive him, respect his choice and say goodbye to your relationship. Again, saying goodbye means you letting go of how things used to be. It doesn’t mean a new relationship cannot be created by the both of you down the road. It just means that you needs to deal with TODAY only.
I know this is not what you want to hear. I know you so badly want to get out of this pain. But I want to encourage you to step into it and allow this pain to be your teacher. You faced a MASSIVE fear with your ex and you won. If you can do that, you can face this pain head on and work towards healing.
If you want some help, I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is the most brilliant person I know when it comes to healing. She will require you to do the work though and maybe you are not ready for that. I don’t know. You may decide to give into your desperation and do whatever it takes to get in front of him. And while that is not the course of action I suggest, I understand why you would want to go that route. I know I’ve done that before and I paid the price – and maybe that’s what needs to happen for you. I honor that choice as sometimes it’s the most painful way to learn, which is many times the best way we learn.
I believe in you though. You are stronger than you think.
Heidi
Hi Madeline!
Wow! You have really been through quite a bit. I understand your fear about your ex and I am so proud of you for finally facing that fear. That took a lot of courage and you made it!!! I’m so sorry that it took the loss of your boyfriend to finally get to that place. I know it deeply hurts to lose the person you want to build your life with.
I don’t know what is happening for him that he is not even willing to talk with you. I’m curious…whenever you would have any type of disagreement, how would he respond? Is he the type to stick with it and talk with you or is he the type to run and not want to talk about things? What are his coping mechanisms? I’m also wondering how he is at forgiving. Some people hold onto the pain from their past like a dog with a bone and if he is that type, my guess is, you won’t get back into his good graces…and even if you do, he will most likely hold a part of himself back from you.
He is either running from his feelings and he has the type of emotional system that shuts down pretty quickly or he is still in a lot of pain and NOT talking to you is a way to keep protecting himself from coming back to you. Either way, he has some work to do on himself. You have done everything you can to try and reconnect and I’m not seeing anything else you can do other than giving him some space for right now. How long has it been since you last talked?
I also hate to ask this, but is there any possibility he is dating someone new? I’m not sure if there is a way to find out, but it is something to consider. Rebounds are pretty common for guys that are hurting.
Heidi
Hi Amanda,
So it sounds like you have taken quite a journey into the deeper therapies offered out there. Are you currently in therapy? If not, now would be a good time to start back up again. I’m happy to recommend my coach. She is one of the most brilliant people I have ever come across and her methods work SUPER fast. She has her PhD in Psychology and she works with people all around the nation virtually. If you want to try someone new, she is my top choice. Just let me know if you are interested and I am happy to email you her contact info. If you are already in therapy, then consider upping your appointments to work through this.
He quickly went from internalizing his issues to externalizing them and making it a reflection of me; that I just made him feel like a flawed person and a failure. You made him feel BOTH sides of himself. I’m sure that dating you, he realized more about what he is capable of, both in his best and his worst. The problem is, his worst side is harmful and toxic and ruins BOTH yours and his self-esteem.
At various times he would be appreciative and even curious to learn more, or ask me to write things down, or one time he asked me to send him info handouts from my previous therapist regarding conflict avoidance. There was also a time he told me I was the only person in his life who has ever “held his feet to the fire” to make him see that he needs to make a change. The thing is Amanda, YOU are the one bringing all of this information to him and it’s not HIM doing the work himself. He is not making ANY effort to face himself. You cannot do it for him. You have done everything you can to show him things, teach him, expose him, confront him…and still he is running. That is his answer and it’s important that you honor that.
I did learn to stop talking like that with him and just held on for the day he actually made the therapist appointment. I gave him tons and tons of affirmations throughout the relationship. I tried to show him stability. I needed the same care, though. Only in hindsight do I see that there were times he was showing me he cared at the max of his capacity and in his own way. This is the core problem. BOTH sides of him are incredibly strong, but his darker side is who ultimately wins out each time. I know that was a very powerful moment for you when he opened up and made that list and was vulnerable with you. You are “the only one” he has ever done that with. That’s a STRONG fishhook for you. Meaning, being “the only one” is a HUGE does of self-esteem for you and makes you FINALLY feel seen and feel valuable. This is an energetic drug. I am VERY familiar with this, as this was also my drug of choice. I heard that a lot too….”you are the only one….” but then there was ALWAYS the withdrawal effects (like you are currently experiencing) and so I would go out and find another person I could get my self esteem hit from. I was VERY good at it too. It took me many years and hundreds of hours of therapy to shift this pattern and it’s such a relief! I am free and that’s what I want for you too. Whatever therapy you have done in your past, you are not done. You still have a ways to go, but that’s okay! Keep fighting for more in your life!
He told me after he blindsided me with the breakup that he felt so much relief not being with me anymore. It’s SO painful to know that that is both true and not at the same time. I’m sure he does feel relieved, like you said he was tortured being in a relationship a lot of the time. But, I also do know the genuine moments of happiness he felt. Yes, being in relationship is incredibly tough for him and you sure have taken an emotional beating by it too.
But that moment and several others are why this is SO hard for me to let go of. Why it’s so hard for me that he isn’t leaning into what we had and getting help. That instead in the end he chose to decide there wasn’t really anything wrong with him; that it was actually just me and he had no feelings for me, so on to the next person. I know it’s hard for you. It’s so tough watching someone choose their darker side, KNOWING they have it in them to heal. Let go Amanda. You will NEVER win this battle with him. Let him be who he wants to be. He deserves that from you. Leave him alone. All your love and your efforts to help, only end up hurting him in the end. You are NOT healthy for him. You trigger him soooooo much and being that he is not the type to face those triggers, all that happens is him feeling worse about himself. Do you see that your love is actually not good for him? Your love triggers his worst side. His happiness is what triggers his dark side. Do you understand this and see this? If he were just left alone, with NO ONE telling him about all his issues and how he needs help, he would live a much more peaceful life. Let him have that. He NEEDS to have this peace instead of constantly dealing with this BIG split he is constantly having to manage when you are in his life. Love him enough to let him be peaceful.
This was my shortest relationship but by far I would say it was my deepest connection and I don’t want to lose him in my life. So let’s put a spin on this Amanda. You don’t want to lose him? You never had him in the first place. Is all of that rejection and gaslighting worth those connected moments you have with him that NEVER ONCE have sustained? Rejection and gaslighting are a VERY HIGH price for those fleeting moments of feeling good with him. NO ONE will ever have him, because he doesn’t even have himself. I know it’s the deepest connection you have ever felt, but look what you have to compare it to. You have NEVER felt a connection that was actually healthy, high functioning, nourishing, stable, and supportive. And while this guy got in deeper, he still cannot offer you any of those qualities.
You have a choice to make Amanda. What do you want? A healthy, nourishing, deeply connective relationship? If yes, then it’s time for you to dig deeper and work on the wounded part of you holding onto this guy for dear life. It’s time for you to face this pain that is being triggered within you and transform it into inner strength. If you want this guy, you get to have him, but you are fooling yourself to think that your pain will go away. You will just be trading one pain for another and you will find NO relief.
All you wanted was for him to get help and face his issues and you don’t understand why he won’t. Well….here you are, not facing your own issues. You are wanting HIM to fix your pain and heartache and you are letting desperation take over your system. You KNOW this connection is harming you and is highly dysfunctional, yet you are continuing to hold onto it. That is no different than what he is doing. He is just trying to find relief as fast as possible OUT of the pain and in doing so, he is avoiding the deeper issue here and NOT willing to do the real work. I know you have done a lot of therapy AND right now, you are running away and looking for that quick fix that doesn’t solve anything. Take what you KNOW and get into action and get help so you can create movement AWAY from this relationship that is harming you.
You get to choose Amanda. Either path means you are facing A LOT of pain and hurt. Path 1 of letting him go means you are facing the pain of the loss of him and every other loss in your life, but at least it’s a path of healing and you are working your way OUT of the pain. Path 2 of continuing to idealize him and wanting to keep fighting for him is a path of pain sourced by constant rejection, instability, criticizing, and blaming/shaming. There is NO END to that pain and it will slowly destroy you until you have very little left of yourself. You get to choose. So what do you want?
Heidi
Hi Amanda! Thank you for sharing more details. Please do not apologize for any ramblings. That’s what this forum is about. I am here to witness your experience, your perspective, your feelings, your story – so share as much as you feel inspired to share. That’s what I’m here for!
Right now I am fully in a survival mode state, which unfortunately does mean just trying to temporarily get relief from the pain. None of my usual coping methods are working and with the holidays, the anniversary of my daughter and my brother’s death coming up in a few weeks, and other things, I am truly struggling. Of course you are in survival mode. You are carrying A LOT of pain, beyond the breakup itself. I know you are struggling and you are looking for any relief from that pain. You are stronger than you think. It’s okay to be in survival mode. It’s okay to be depressed. As long as you keep holding yourself accountable to learning and growing, you are doing just fine. If you start to feel yourself wanting to end your life or spending too much time alone and not living your daily life like work or groceries or showers, then get some help. I’m not sure if you are currently working with your therapist. If you are, then double up on sessions. Tell your friends or family that you need extra support right now. Schedule daily phone calls or meetup for dinner 3-4x a week and get yourself out and moving. Do you like animals? Go sign up and volunteer to walk dogs or spend some time with cats at a shelter. One of the BEST ways to start to feel good is by making a difference in the world. One time, I bought a dozen roses and handed them out to 12 different strangers that day. I felt soooooooo much better by the end because I got to see the smiles and receive the appreciation from all those people..something went back in to help me through a really rough time. Get a journal and write down how you are feeling several times a day if you have to. Part of healing is MOVING the emotions you are having. If all you do is sit with it and do nothing with your feelings, they fester and grow. Journaling helps them move from your head onto paper. It’s incredibly therapeutic. You can also dance. Put on a breakup song and dance your hurt feelings. Dance not only for you but for every person who is dealing with heartbreak like you are. Put on a song that makes you just wanna shake that booty and let your body move however it wants to. You can also look on YouTube for “Tapping” or “EFT.” These are techniques that are INCREDIBLY powerful. It’s not going to take your pain away entirely, but it can absolutely help you start to shift how you are feeling right now. So get to work! Start to fight for yourself. You deserve more in this life and those your daughter and brother would want that for you. Even your guy wants that for you! So go for it! Pick yourself up and fight for more in your life. You are fully capable. Find out how strong you truly are!!!
Maybe it’s just compounded grief and complex PTSD, but the loss of this particular person is hitting me harder than previous breakups. Yes, absolutely 100%. It’s hitting you hard NOT because of him in particular, but the compounding affect of ALL the losses you are dealing with.
I should have emphasized more in the original post how much good there was between us. He was unlike anyone I had dated before and he brought a lot of joy into my life. When he was actually not getting in his own way, it was wonderful. He really would have times of showing a lot of care for me, a desire for us, a future, and (at least what I perceived as) genuine happiness. Of course there were good things between the 2 of you. Unfortunately it’s not enough to keep a relationship healthy and sustainable. It’s never the best parts that break apart couples, it’s the worst parts.
It was a rocky start, a rollercoaster of him expressing feelings for me and a desire for a relationship, and then it seemed like any time some sort of conflict would happen, or when emotions would get real and the relationship was developing, he’d pull away and distance completely.
One minute he would say he knows he needs to get help, go to therapy, work through his issues and would tell me that he definitely wanted us, but the vulnerability never lasted long and he would flip again. All the great stuff in the world doesn’t change the other stuff. This guy is so split. He has 2 VERY strong parts of himself that disagree, so he is dealing with a pretty big battle within himself. This level of split can be a symptom of some pretty big traumas from childhood. Whatever is happening for him, it’s always going to be there until he decides to do something about it. It makes me sad for him. He is truly suffering and to be honest, the BEST thing you can do for him is to stay away. This guy is being tortured by being in a relationship and causing so much harm and he knows it. Since he is not going to get any help, it’s best he stay single. It’s stable, it’s consistent and he doesn’t have to worry about hurting anyone.
I tried to be extremely supportive and then it’s like the shame of what he had written down hit him and he shut off again and told me to leave. This is far beyond anything you can do for him. He is harmful and toxic and not doing anything about it. Him treating you this way has nothing to do with you. He is going to do this to ANY woman who tries to get close. I don’t know what caused this level of split within him, but whatever it is, is pretty big – and it’s also possible he has no clue either. It might be living deeper in his subconscious. Who knows! Either way, he is not a safe person to be in relationship with. All this to say, it doesn’t mean he isn’t a great guy. It sounds like he has a really beautiful and amazing side to him. It’s unfortunate he is not able to stay in that side of himself. He needs help.
“if I can just see him, talk to him, create a positive experience, then he’ll temporarily get out of that black-and-white thinking where all he can see is negative” Your heart is truly beautiful. I want to remind you how sacred your heart is. It’s valuable and it’s sooooo so precious. Even if you were able to connect to his best self, he has a STRONG pattern of his worst self sabotaging it. NOTHING you can do will change that because the challenge lives within HIM. HE has to make that choice for himself. You will only end up right back where you are right now.
Again I apologize, I’m truly just trying to survive right now. I’m frozen in grief and trauma and trying to take it minute by minute to move forward. Minute by minute is all you need to do right now. Find small things to be grateful for. I’ve been in that place before. I would say “Good job Heidi for getting up and taking a shower.” “Good job Heidi for making eggs.” Good job Heidi for paying your bills.” “Good job Heidi for getting up and going to the bathroom.” You have got to get encouragement into your system. Listen to podcasts, watch tedx inspiring talks, watch movies that are motivating – these are ways to use the outside world to remind you of your strength. Under the Tuscan Sun is one of my favorite break up movies.
Thoughts??
Heidi
Hi Amanda,
Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story with us and willing to take a look at possible approaches. I am sooooo so sorry for everything you have been through. The loss of 2 babies and both times, the men left. Yikes! That is intense and heartbreaking. I love how willing you are to get help, learn, and grow from these experiences. You are very courageous as it’s not easy!!!
I feel like the right answer is that I shouldn’t be trying to be with someone who cheated on me and doesn’t have the emotional capacity to be in a loving relationship You know the answer Amanda. But let’s look at what you are REALLY looking to do. You want out of pain and you are thinking that if you get this guy back, your pain will dissipate. And while that might be true for a bit, the other kind of pain will return….the pain of rejection from his inability to be present with you, emotionally connective, be a good teammate and work through things with you….none of that will EVER exist, so you end up in a relationship feeling quite alone. Although, I’m guessing, considering your history, this is what you are used to.
I know you want a deep, connective, nourishing, healthy love. I can feel already that you have a big beautiful heart! If that is what you want, you have to say goodbye to the unavailable kind of guy. And that means working even deeper on this pattern you have.
Let me tell you a story about me. I used to have this same exact pattern in my 20s. I chased after those bad boy type all the time. I KNEW it wasn’t healthy, I knew EXACTLY why I was doing it (my father was a narcissist, so I was just picking what was familiar) and I still didn’t anyways, because I couldn’t help. The pull was sooooo strong. I tied to date a nice guys, but I had a pattern where they would last just about 2 weeks before I got “bored” or I found something wrong with them (which of course there really was nothing wrong). I hated dating nice guys because I would always end up hurting them and I felt so bad about that. Also something I couldn’t help. Then one day, it all began to change. I met a nice guy that I did everything I could to stay away from, but I liked him too much. I thought “maybe this guy could be it. Maybe he will get past the 2 week mark and I can actually fall in love with a guy who truly cares about me.” Well….2 weeks rolled around and BAM! I was no longer interested. I was so disappointed. But my therapist at that time said to me “Stay in it and find out what’s on the other side. Stay in it and work with me to shift this pattern.” I can’t even begin to explain how hard this was AND it was also fascinating all the thoughts and feelings that came up. I had to redefine “boredom” into “this is what a healthy connection looks like.” VERY long story short, it took a handful of months, but one day, I walked into his house to meetup with him and he greeted me with his usual excitement and big smile (which for the past months made me contract inside – but I hid that reaction) and for the first time, I felt the butterflies again, like when I first met him. I did it! I had broken through. We didn’t last as he ended up moving away, but ever since him, the bad boy/unavailable type was no longer interesting to me….there was no more pull. I wanted NOTHING to do with them. Whew!!!
I’m not saying you need to approach breaking this pattern of yours in the same way. I’m just saying that you need to face it, dig in, explore all the beliefs and low self esteem that pulls you towards men that do not value you. You deserve more than being treated like this, but first and foremost, you are treating yourself exactly like these men are treating you. You are getting so hurt that these guys are abandoning you, but you abandoned yourself first by choosing them in the first place. We do this because we are looking for someone else to choose us, love us, care for us – instead of having to do the work ourselves. My father being a a narcissist set up this pattern for me, so when I started dating, I just kept picking guys who were like my father in various ways and I imagine you are doing the same thing. When these guys leave you and abandon you, you are left with being aware of the giant void that lives within you – and so eventually you find another guy who can fill that void for you, because that void HURTS a lot! It’s incredibly uncomfortable and that is what you are currently dealing with. I want to encourage you to stay there and not run from it by trying to get him to come back to you. He does not have the capability to offer you what you want. You say that you felt your relationship didn’t really get a chance, but the truth is, you have enough information to know that it never would have blossomed into what you wanted. He is not set up emotionally to be able to offer that to you, so an ending was inevitable…and thank goodness it happened before you moved in together.
Listen, I deeply, deeply, deeply know and understand how you are feeling right now. I also know you want to FINALLY experience that deep love and connection with a man. That is NEVER going to happen until you start to choose differently and that starts by you starting to build your self love, your self esteem, your self care and valuing your heart.
I like to use this analogy when coaching people through dating: Imagine you are the Founder and CEO of this HUGE company worth billions of dollars. And you are looking for a high level person to come work for you. High level (c-suite level – CEO, CFO, COO etc.) means you are requiring someone with a lot of experience, a lot of knowledge, reliable, stable, passionate etc. to support your company. There are SEVERAL interviews that are going to be required for that position. You want to know that the person you are hiring can actually do the job you want, support your company the way you want, bring new ideas into your company so it can continue growing and expanding, and you want to feel like you can trust this person has the company’s best interest in mind. You want to know that even under stress, this person can handle it in respectful ways and not fall apart, not run away and quit, not become critical or judgmental, and instead value their job and do everything they can to keep moving forward in their position.
This is how you need to think about dating. Your heart is your company. It is SACRED, VALUABLE, STRONG, FRAGILE, and needs YOU to protect it from an employee that is not suited for the job. Your heart is worth a gazillion dollars and beyond, so being EXTREMELY discerning about who you hand it over to is so important. And you are not treating your heart that way, which means you yourself don’t view your own heart is worth protecting. You keep handing it over to “employees” who are NOT equipped to be the CEO of your company. In fact, you are hiring people who are destroying your company. But that’s okay! I sure did that for many years and it’s a common thing people do. I’d like to see you break that pattern and the only way to do it, is to stay alone and step into the pain. You can do it! You have been through sooooo much worse in your past and you made it. You can make it through this. Work with your therapist and dive deeper into the pain so you can actually heal it, instead of putting a bandaid over it by trying to get back with this guy.
However, if you want to keep chasing him, I get that too. The reality is, you might not be in enough pain to make a different decision – and lord knows I’ve been there a million times as well. If you want to get him back, your best chance is to leave him alone. By chasing after him, he lost respect for you and ended up blocking you. When you chased him, you were doing it out of desperation and he knows that…and that is a HUGE turnoff for guys. It’s going to take some time since he blocked you. I’m not sure it’s repairable, considering how much he has disconnected. He is going to be more attracted to you being confident and doing well without him. So giving him space is the first step. I know that’s hard to do, but you pushed so much, that it’s the only option you are left with. I don’t know if he checks your social media at all. Do you know?
Heidi
Hi Daria, I know your heartbreak all to well. I am soooo so sorry. I would never wish this on anyone. Losing a love, letting go of your dreams with him, saying goodbye to the part of yourself that existed WITH him and creating a new version without him….it’s all incredibly tough. I believe in you Daria. You WILL get through this and there will be a day that you all of a sudden realize you didn’t think about him 100,000 times that day. New life, new laughter, new experiences, new memories without him…many of these things are waiting for you to find them and you will. It’s going to take some time and patience, but you will get there. I believe that with all my heart.
I don’t think he’s felt so loved and adored with anyone else! How can he put me in the same category as women who have only hurt him in his past? This’s so unfair! I know this isn’t fair. It’s incredibly frustrating. We all do it though…mostly on a subconscious level. There is not a human being alive that doesn’t come to the table with baggage…with pain from the past…with stories about love, money, health, ourselves, others…and it’s impossible not to put people in boxes they don’t belong in. You did it to him too. We all do it all the time, so it’s quite normal. The only difference between me and you and him and anyone else out there, is what we do about it, how much we are conscious of it, and whether we let fear control us or choose to embrace it and face…the latter being the very rare choice for people. I call those areas “fault lines.” They are cracks in our system full of lies, programs, our low self-esteem etc. and most people are not willing to jump into those cracks to shine a light on what lives in there. I get it. It’s extremely scary. You are wanting to run away as well. You are thinking about dating again, you are surrounding yourself with people, you are wanting to leave where you live and build a life somewhere else….and while none of those things are bad or wrong, you are wanting to do all of those things because you are trying to get away from the hurt, instead of facing it….just like your guy does. And look at how his choice to run away sabotaged the best thing he has ever had in you!
And then I saw him and all my optimism evaporated. I know I should block my thoughts, but I can’t stop thinking about this man, he has become an obsession for me, almost unreal, living in my imagination 24/7. This is very normal Daria. Letting go of love is incredibly difficult. Here is a short video talking about it and maybe it will help you better understand what is happening. https://youtu.be/k0GQSJrpVhM?si=c6Dx3yxJU8omji1R
I am thinking about dating other guys soon. You say I should probably be alone for a while to calm down and heal. However, I have been alone for 8 months now and feeling alone doesn’t help much Feeling alone is EXACTLY what you need to do to help yourself heal. 8 months means nothing. It’s more about how healed you are. Your guy is the perfect example. It’s been a handful of years since he was cheated on, right? Yet, he is still carrying the wound as if it happened yesterday. Time DOES NOT heal all wounds….it just buries it. So if truly want to heal, you have to step into exactly what you are wanting to run from. I suggest finding someone who can help you navigate this and turn this heartbreak into the greatest and most powerful teacher for you. Or…you can try and navigate this by yourself….but honestly, you won’t get very far, because you don’t actually know where to look, what to do, how to recognize the patterns within yourself…unless you have someone trained and objective acting as your guide. Is that something you would be willing to do?
Am I a terrible mother and grandmother? Sometimes I feel like my son is upset that I do not move closer to them. I tried before but it is not easy to find a job for my status and I could not leave my beloved man… Now maybe it’s time I start looking for a job there again. I want to leave a place where no one cares about me. Here my heart was broken by my boyfriend and my sister. I’m already 55 and I don’t want to waste the rest of my life in unhappiness. I don’t know how you built your inner circle and how long it took No, you are not a terrible mother or grandmother. You have your moments, just like everyone does, but that does not define ALL of who you are. You are limited, messy, hurtful, controlling AND loving, deeply caring, courageous, curious, powerful, strong. You are ALL of these things put together and so is everyone else. You are doing the very best you can and while that means that you make bad decisions sometimes, it doesn’t mean that is who you are.
I understand your desire to leave. Maybe that is a good idea and you can get a fresh start. AND…if that is in the cards for you, it’s going to take some time for that to happen, so for now…you are there and need to face the pain of rejection from your sister and him. Your heart is broken and I would love to see you work on healing it directly and then everything will fall into place exactly as it should and in the right timing. Your only job is self care, self love, learning, growing, and forgiving – so you can free yourself and not bring this pain into your next relationship.
Why do people of your blood, your siblings, the people who are supposed to be your closest friends, hurt you the most?! Why do they make these choices? Yes, this is a question I have dealt with a lot from people. There are many layers to this question and too difficult to explain this here, so I’ll give you the simple answer….they hurt you the most because fear is their leader. Most people bury their own pain and run from it – thinking that it’s gone, but all that happens is it pollutes their entire system and it leaks out in every aspect of their lives…their health, their relationships, their money habits…every aspect of their lives is affected by that pain that has been buried. Most people have no clue how NOT to do, which is why I am here. I learned how to face it and become empowered. I learned the skills to help me manage it. I learned how to build trust within myself to handle anything in a healthy, conscious way. I have freedom from my past. I have freedom from the pain of losing my brothers. I feel 100% clear and in acceptance of what is, because I worked at it and didn’t run from it. I have worked with various healers and therapists for the past 30 years and will continue until my very last breath. So…when people don’t face their pain, it causes harm to the people they value most. It’s so sad, but I understand it too and I have compassion for people who choose to run instead of facing their baggage.
I know you are deeply hurting and I wish I could ease your pain. I suggest working with it. Try journaling every single day. Write at least 3 pages and let it all out. You can dance your anger and pain. Find songs that can activate those feelings in you and just dance. Look up “tapping and breakups” on the internet and start doing those patterns they suggest. It’s a very powerful modality, although many struggle with it because it’s a tool that seems too easy, but give it a shot!!! Watch some movies to encourage you where you watch the main character get knocked down and get back up again. I love Under the Tuscan Sun for helping with heartbreak. Listen to podcasts that can help educate you and equip you with more knowledge and understand about yourself. One of my favorites is “Know Thyself.” Fight for yourself Daria. Fight for more than just thinking about him 24/7. Dig into your feelings and get to know them on a deeper level…where do they come from? what are your stories about love? what fears do you have?
I’m curious…you say you are 55 and running out of time. Running out of time to do what?
Heidi
Hi Daria! I am so so sorry that you are coming to this conclusion. I know it’s heartbreaking and it is a very big loss. It’s so incredibly challenging to have someone so close and be so intimate on many levels and then now…they are not healthy for you. There are so many layers to what is happening and I’m sure some of it is confusing for you. Let me go through an address some of what you said in defense of him, and see if I can help you understand more.
However, I feel some internal resistance to fully agree with you. Because you have never met my boyfriend, and I have not given you all the details of our history that could justify him First, I want to be more clear here. I know I am focusing ONLY on his limitations and not giving him, or you, credibility for the good stuff. One of my challenges on this forum is I get so focused on helping someone understand the limitations that are contributing to the pattern that I come across as if I am saying the guy is bad or wrong and you should leave. That is actually not what I am meaning to do. I focus so much on the shadow side, because that is where ALL of our limitations live and that’s the side that people are struggling with – but it’s not ALL I see. I also see the great stuff. I also KNOW that you would not have fallen in love with him if there were not a ton of wonderful things about him. Every single one of us has a great side and a not so great side and I am a firm believe in embracing ALL of it – but because the darker side is the hardest part, that’s where I end up focusing. So hopefully this makes sense to you. There is actually no need to justify him.
Second, even though I have not met your guy, I know patterns and what they mean. For example, the pattern of addiction comes with a foundational set of emotional challenges, regardless of the personality. Another example, the pattern of someone stonewalling their partner (not being available to talk things through) is driven by a HUGE amount of fear (whether the person is aware of it or not) and that is the same for every single person. The REASONS for why stonewalling is a pattern is where the variation from person to person shows up. Does this make sense?
You: For women, we are defined by relationships – connection. We can lose our jobs and be okay, but take away our relationships and we fall apart. This isn’t a real truth for me. I am probably very similar to a man, as I am a scientist What I would say to this, is just because you don’t feel that way or operate that way, doesn’t mean it isn’t true for you. What we feel and how we operate on a day to day basis is soooooo polluted by our upbringing, our beliefs, our stories, our programs etc. so truly understanding how we would operate from a core level is extremely difficult to know UNLESS we have deeply explored ourselves. But as you have already discovered, when your work fell apart, your relationship became more important, so that is a clue that relationships are more valuable to you than you actually think. Just something to think about. I’m not disregarding how you feel or how you know yourself. You could be absolutely right. I’m just playing devil’s advocate here and giving you something to think about.
Sometimes I think he expected me to chase him and apologize as proof of my love. But because I didn’t, he concluded that I didn’t love him enough. Do I sound crazy? Sometimes I feel like I’m overthinking and over-reading things. That’s why I appreciate your sober assessment of my assumptions. I would say that you have a pretty accurate assessment. His response to being cheated on and creating “rules” is a pretty normal reaction and yes, it’s very common for someone who has not forgiven and released the hurt, to fall in love again and EXPECT to be hurt again, cheated on again, left again…whatever story they have created. His reaction is pretty standard and he will be like that the rest of his life until he faces the pain he is holding onto that is “protecting” him from deeply loving again. This has nothing to do with you specifically. He is going to do this to any woman who tries and gets close.
But I was sooo disappointed and I couldn’t help it. I understand your disappointment about how he chose to handle the passing of his mother. However, what is MORE important here to understand is that instead of dealing with your disappointment and the story you had about what that meant about him, you caused harm to your relationship in hopes to change him. I also want to point out that the feeling of “I couldn’t help it” should help you also understand how HE feels. He also feels that he can’t help it. He is SO afraid of being hurt again so he puts walls up. That is not different than you feeling SO disappointed in his choices that you also acted in a certain way. Do you see how he is hurting the relationship in the same way you are? This is what everybody LOVES to do….point the finger at the other person who is causing the hurt. It’s the easy path, it feels justified, and it prevents us from REALLY facing the deeper truth that is sourcing our feelings. The truth is, ALL of how we feel is our responsibility and for no one else to fix. Other people can assist us and help us along the journey, but ultimately, how we each feel about what others say or do, is our own. All of us have different filters, different ways of looking at life, different reactions to the same exact events. A question I always give my clients whenever they are wanting someone else to do or be something different than they are is this: “what are you wanting THEM to do for you, that you are not willing to do for yourself?” So you wanted HIM to care about his mother and keep his kids connected to his mother’s passing etc. Let’s look at this on a deeper level. You were watching him NOT care about his own mother, so that is a reflection of him not caring about you either on the level you were deeply craving. If he could do that to his own mother, he sure as heck could do that to you. So you trying to change him and get him to care was your way of trying to get him to care more about you. So circling back around to the question: What were you wanting him to do for you? care and honor more deeply about his own mother, which would also show that could care and honor YOU more deeply as well: That you were not willing to do for yourself? You were not willing to care for yourself. You chose a man who is emotionally unavailable and not set up to care for you deeply or honor the depth of love you had to offer him. So in essence, you made a choice to hand your heart over to a man who did not have the ability to care for it properly and that was not a caring thing to do for yourself. So instead of seeing that he was not equipped to offer you what you wanted, you kept trying to fight for this relationship by getting HIM to care for you, because you were not caring for yourself. This is a pretty advanced concept, so hopefully you are able to see where I am heading with this. Anytime we are looking to someone else to change so we can feel better, that is an INSTANT sign that you are missing something WITHIN YOU and whatever is missing, fill it yourself and stop looking for the other person to change so you can feel better. Most people operate this way because they don’t know any better until they learn what is happening within themselves. It’s so much easier to look to the other person to fix how we are feelings, however it’s always why the divorce rate is so high. It’s also why the majority of relationships we are witnessing are far from healthy. It’s a tough journey to turn inwards, but the gifts you will get from it are FAR beyond what I can even explain here.
I still think that if we could talk and clear things up, if I could explain to him that I love him, that he is valuable to me, that he can trust me, we could repair our relationship and be good and happy partners. This is a very optimistic and idealistic viewpoint, however not grounded in an understanding about how inner “contracts” work. By that I mean, let’s say he made a contract internally to never let another woman fool him again or hurt him again, talking about how you are different, that you love him, that he is valuable to you etc. does NOT change that inner contract he has made. Fear of being hurt will ALWAYS win out because that fear lives in every cell of his being. Love will activate the fear. The more he tries to love and open up, the more the fear will increase. It’s there to “protect” him from ever being hurt like that again. With more surface problems, yes, talking about things can help shift what is happening, with when dealing with a person’s coping mechanism, it just doesn’t work unless they are willing to do some deep diving into what they are holding onto. That is the ONLY way to get past those walls. How someone goes about that will vary and is a very creative process, but the person has to be willing – and that is something he is not willing to do. You are trying to reason with him. You are trying to get into his HEAD and show him that you are different and connect him to a different reality. That’s a very scientific approach, but the problem is, his fear and his walls come from his heart, not his head.
Couples counseling would be helpful if he agreed. But I didn’t have a chance to ask. After all, we were very happy together for a long time! But because I sabotaged my happiness with him, I probably made him feel like he wasn’t good enough for me, that I put my own path and goals above our relationship, and he was probably afraid that I might leave him for a more successful or wealthy man when I got bored with him. This is silly to think so but he probably did! Whatever his fears are specifically, the problem here is NOT that you activated them, it’s that he is not facing them. There is not a relationship alive where fear and pain and hurt isn’t activated by our mistakes, our humanness, our ignorance etc. It’s just how it is. What makes a relationship successful is having BOTH people willing to work through those moments both on their own and then together. If one person is not willing to take that journey, the relationship will not stay healthy and growing.
You know, people often portray someone they hurt in a bad light to feel better. She is a very mentally immature person and very defensive, she has a hard time forgiving and being grateful to anyone. All this breaks my heart… But I understand that someone in the relationship has to be wise and mature, and that person has to be me. I’m so sorry about your sister. That is incredibly tough and challenging. She is so wrapped up in her own pain and story that she is not able to see the beautiful gift of who you truly are. She is not able to celebrate your success and your gifts and the love you have to offer. That makes me very sad for her. Both my brothers were the same way towards me as well. They both had stories about me that prevented us from being able to be in a relationship and eventually I came to terms with it, accepted it, forgave them both on the deepest levels possible and said goodbye to being in relationship with either of them ever again. It’s been 20 years now and I still send them a lot of good vibes and I am still very much at peace about my choice. I’m not saying that is what you should do, I’m just saying that I understand how yucky it feels to have family in your life that doesn’t value, support, or love who you are. My heart goes out to you.
No one is a complete angel or devil, people are always a mixture. Everyone has their own truth, and you should always listen to both sides if you want to get a clear picture. And as they say, the truth is somewhere in the middle. Since he can’t speak for himself, I was trying to advocate for him. It may sound silly and sometimes counterintuitive, but I feel like I need to get all my points out there to free up the thoughts that have been running through my head all day. You are 100% correct. What I want to bring to your attention is that while everyone has different truths about whatever is happening, there are still fundamental truths that never change, regardless of the person. It’s those fundamental truths that I try to operate from and let guide my life. For example, it’s a fundamental truth that if someone is NOT willing to forgive the pain of their past, they will ALWAYS be limited in their ability to be happy and to love deeply. There is no way around that. Another fundamental truth about relationships is that it actually doesn’t matter how great things are, if in the worst moment trust and safety are broken because of how the 2 people treat each other, the relationship will never be healthy until that trust and safety are repaired…IF it’s even repairable. So when coaching people about falling in love, I have them 100% focus on one specific thing when they are dating….how does that person treat you, treat themselves, treat others when they are under stress? THIS is the defining factor as to whether a relationship has the potential to be successful or not. And of course, I also work with them on how they treat themselves and others when they are under stress. I have a standard…I will NEVER be in relationship with someone (friend or lover) who runs from their problems, who criticizes, who ghosts, or who is disrespectful. I REQUIRE that when stress shows up, they are respectful. They communicate, they work on their own triggers and have accountability, they ask for help – they do whatever it takes to find forgiveness and work with the stress in a high functioning way. BUT….that is how I handle myself as well and can offer that in all my relationships – and this is a skill, not something that just happens. I will NEVER last in a relationship that does not offer that to me. I don’t care how amazing the person is, they will never get to the deep, most inner circle of my heart without that skillset. They might live on the outer circle though and that’s okay for me.
So if you want HIM to be open to working on his limitations, his fears, his inability to forgive, is that something you are doing for yourself as well? I think you are doing an incredible job with learning more about yourself and trying to understand all the different layers of what is happening. Well done! AND…there are deeper layers to access where the FEELINGS and STORIES and the hurt lives. As a scientist, living in the head is a full time job and it’s definitely a necessary part of the journey, however it’s just the first step and actually does NOT create sustained changes, because it’s not far enough on the path.
With all of that being said, how are you doing today? I know it’s been a few days since you posted. Any updates? What feelings are coming up for you?
And like always, if there is anything I have said that you disagree with or want more clarification, please share!!!
Heidi
Hi Nikole! Welcome! Thank you for sharing your story.
I’m a little confused, so I need more clarification. Are you wanting advice to change his mind? Are you wanting to step into a deeper connection with him, even though he is not available for that?
How long were you married? I’m assuming you both have set up for a divorce, yes? That’s so tough. I’m sorry you are having to go through this loss.
I do want to talk about rebound relationships. How do you feel this new guy is fitting into that rebound idea? I’m wondering if he is putting up a boundary because he knows he would be a rebound and doesn’t want to go through that. Only he knows of course, but I wouldn’t be surprised if he felt that way.
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Darya! Thank you for sharing everything you did. We are having a wonderful conversation. I love your curiosity, I love your thoughts, I love your honesty – you are incredibly strong and I respect that about you. So many people are not able to embrace the facts of their situation – the truth – because it’s too painful. I see you wrestling with it, which is a very normal thing to do – but you are at least willing to step into the ring with it and have a conversation about it. You are asking questions, you are wanting deeper understanding, and you are wanting to learn. This approach will ALWAYS lead to your growth, understanding, and eventual peace and acceptance with whatever direction you decide to choose to go. Well done!
First of all, I really, truly appreciate our conversations, your openness, your insights, and the fact that you share your thoughts and experiences with me! This is the first time in my life that a conversation with a therapist sounds not like a monologue from me, but like a dialogue, like communication with a wise, compassionate friend! I am very grateful to you for this! Wow! You put a HUGE smile on my face. Thank you for saying all of this. You seriously made my day!
I’m just wondering how James would answer my questions. I think his words would have been different. Yes, he probably would have answered differently and it also would have been a valuable answer. I know what it is that I know because I researched MANY approaches, I asked for guidance from several different people, I sought help from many different experts. So my approach is a fusion of a million different approaches, ideas, theories etc. and I made it all my own. I went out and LIVED the advice and guidance. I found out what worked, what didn’t work, what the CORE truths were vs. situational truths. I always tell people never to just believe what I say or what anyone else says. Take what we say and go try it on – go make it your own as that is the only way to truly know or believe what works and doesn’t work for you.
I like his theory too, although sometimes it puts all the responsibility for the relationship on the woman. It’s like the eternal dream of a man that a woman should be like a fairy, solving all the problems of a relationship with one wave of a magic wand. We should be smarter, wiser, easy to communicate with and always be very optimistic, creative and positive. This is not what James means to portray, however I can see why it comes across that way. What I do want to say is that women are much more dynamic, multilayered, expansive than men in general. It’s not a good or bad thing…it’s just an “ism.” We have a role to play being feminine and so do the men and when we are in our highest forms, we are a perfect match…we balance each other, we support each other, we are an incredible team. One of the core, innate roles we each play is VERY different. I’m saying this as a general concept to work with – NOT as a concept that applies to every single person, so keep this in mind. Men, in general, are defined by their ability to produce something. If you take away a man’s job, or his ability to make or produce something in this world, he will FALL APART. He won’t know who he is, he becomes HORRIBLE at relationship, he will commit suicide, he will fall into addictions etc. It’s a spiral downward when he loses his ability to produce. Even if he were a stay at home dad, their instincts lead them into finding “projects” at home to do – things to fix, things to create, things to accomplish. I have seen this over and over and over. I saw it when I dated guys that weren’t solid in their jobs or between jobs or not sure what they wanted to be…they were HORRIBLE at being consistently connective, communicating well, or even focusing on the present moment when we were together. For women, we are defined by relationships – connection. We can lose our jobs and be okay, but take away our relationships and we fall apart. Stay at home moms don’t look to fix things or create things, they are nurturing relationships with their children and with other moms and teachers and anyone else involved in their kid’s life. So….WE are the relationship caretakers. I have VERY RARELY come across a man who is seeking a way to improve his relationship. It’s typically the woman reading the books, looking for a therapist, listening to podcasts, because relationship and connection are the center of her well being. So…while what you described here is a bit antiquated, there is some truth in it. I want to invite you into looking at it from a higher perspective and the gift we have as women to be the caretakers of relationships – the most complicated and challenging entity on this planet. Does that mean that we do EVERYTHING while the man sits around? Of course not. We lead, but the man must also have a desire to follow and also take his own initiative. If that is missing, then the relationship will always be limited and that is something that a woman cannot be held accountable for.
Then why should we be iron ladies, sexy chicks and patient mentors at the same time, all in one? To be like a mother and a passionate lover for him at the same time? It seems that we should never relax, always control what and how to say, what and how to do or not to do. Put a man in the center of the Universe and revolve our whole life around him! This is definitely NOT what a woman needs to be, but your father also grew up in a different generation, so take that into account. His view WAS accurate not that long ago. Women stayed home and took care of the “provider” and everything he needed. And that’s okay! As a collective, we have to try on all sorts of things before finding that balance. We have been shifting out of that mindset for a while now, but it takes time to find the new way of relating where BOTH people in the relationship feel valued, cared about, and respected.
But when I heard him saying that a woman must have innate cunning, coquetry, charm, to smooth things over, to achieve her goals softly and easily, I froze in fear. I asked myself if I had these innate qualities, if I would become such a woman when I grew up? And I knew the answer was NO, because all the books I read taught me to be open, straightforward and honest. And I had no idea how this could be compatible with my father’s expectations of a good woman.
And then he didn’t want to see the difference in the situation, he had already identified everything as a familiar situation and acted according to the pattern. Again, there is a thread of truth in this. It’s not different than what marketing people do…they understand how to say something to INSPIRE a specific action from their audience. So…wouldn’t you say that if you want something from a man, figuring out how to INSPIRE it from him is a powerful skill. Not necessarily in a manipulative way, but in a way that helps the man to feel empowered. Similar to the hero instinct. It’s a skill that absolutely can be used to manipulate OR it’s a skill that can absolutely bring him closer because he is feeling empowered with his woman – and this is a good thing. No different than money, it’s all about the user’s intention and how and why they are implementing what they know.I was even jealous! Why am I never ready for something like this! Why don’t I have a pattern! I guess I’m so naive because I think everyone is unique, I always give a person a second and third chance. I can’t accept that someone can’t change, I think I just haven’t found the right approach to him. You have your own patterns! LOL. I can tell that 1 pattern you have is that you don’t give up. Our greatest strengths are ALWAYS our greatest weaknesses as well. You are like a dog with a bone. You have a hard time quitting, right? I actually used to be like that until I learned more. I learned every single approach possible to figure out how to get what I needed from whomever was my boyfriend at the time. I never gave up until I was in enough scarcity or pain that I couldn’t take it anymore…and unfortunately I had a SUPER HIGH pain tolerance. I actually learned that healthy people have a LOW pain tolerance. A healthy person chooses NOT to engage in a toxic connection. Now, I have such a low pain tolerance, BUT the people that are in my inner circle are INCREDIBLE!!! Sure we have arguments and rough patches, but the relationship is healthy. We communicate, we own our mistakes and patterns, we are honest with each other…I feel 100% safe with ALL my close relationships because now…I only let higher functioning people into my inner circle. Does this make sense?
I agree with James on this: my man no longer feels like my HERO! He told me that he thought I was smarter than him. But I wouldn’t say that. He may not feel like that, but that is NOT your fault. Here is the thing…bottom line is, you cannot make someone feel something that doesn’t live within in. If he doesn’t feel like a hero in your life, then he had 2 choices. a healthy version of him would communicate that to you and ask for change – and if it didn’t happen, he would recognize this was not a relationship that worked for him and he would leave (low pain tolerance). His other choice was to do what he did…blame you for how HE feels, but the truth is, he felt like that loooong before you ever came along. So in the end, him not feeling like your hero is NOT your responsibility. Whatever any of us feel, is always 100% our responsibility – end of story. If someone is triggering us, it’s OUR job to say something, understand it, work with it…..or leave. For me, I view every trigger, every bad feeling I have, every pattern I have – as my teacher. So when someone triggers me, it’s an opportunity for me to learn what has not been resolved within me and it’s an opportunity for healing. So…when I hurt someone else or when I am not what they are wanting, I also view their pain as their teacher as well and while I may take responsibility for what I did, I do not blame myself for their pain or their lack of needs being met. It’s not my job to take care of them.
I believe that love is a blessing, and if we have received this gift from God, we cannot ignore it or neglect it or refuse it, it is a sin and a big mistake. Love is absolutely one of the most beautiful and powerful divine gifts for sure! I want to invite you to expand your perspective though. How about instead of calling it a sin or a mistake NOT to engage with it, you view someone who is in fear of it and running from it, ALSO as a path for learning and growing. If you understand that pain is the GREATEST motivator for change, then watching someone isolate or run from love brings them into pain…which hopefully one day becomes sooooo great that they make a different choice. And even if they die never having faced their fear, they STILL learned things along the way that you were never witness to. Love is incredibly powerful and terrifying for most people all at the same time. If fear is NOT activated by love, you are not truly loving. I understand why people run from it, why they try and control it, why their worst gets activated by it. That’s why I’ve studied it for over 3 decades. It’s fascinated me ever since I can remember. I’ve come to understand and accept that every single person has a very unique journey with love – some expand and some contract – either way…it’s their choice and THEIR journey and that’s between them and the divine and not for me to say it should be different. There are things happening far beyond what I can see with my limited, grain of sand understanding about their path.
Now I feel almost guilt free, and I could be a much better partner for my man, I would show him my love and devotion, proving that he is my one and only. I have no doubt you could be a much better partner for your man. You have grown, you have learned, you have become more open….AND….it still does not change who HE is. He is who he is because of his past and his avoidance of his baggage. You changing, does not change him. You will still be facing the same exact patterns from him because he hasn’t changed.
I think I understand what you mean by saying that “the fear, the pain, the heartbreak they are holding onto – is stronger than their desire to be happy and get what they want.” It is driven by the desire of remaining within a comfort zone. I also think it has to do with imprinting earlier life experiences. EXACTLY!!!! This is a very layered concept that normally teach in a class, but basically, it’s called the “upper limit.” We ALL have a limit as to how happy we will allow ourselves to be. This limit is determined by how much baggage we are carrying around. The more the baggage, the lower the limit – the less happy we will allow ourselves to be…AND…it’s not even a conscious choice. I’m aware of it because I’ve studied it, but most are not. For example, when I was in my early 20s, I was all about the bad boy type of guy. The nice guys who treated me like gold, I would last 2 weeks (literally) before I felt bored, found something wrong with them, or just couldn’t take the niceties anymore. I was highly aware of my dating pattern, but it wasn’t until my late 20s that I was able to shift it. It took a lot of work of clearing out my baggage to shift that pattern – which allowed my upper limit to expand. The thing is, in order to raise your happiness level, you have to open up your baggage and clear out what you are holding onto. Otherwise, that baggage just acts as an anchor. You can see someone’s upper limit by watching WHEN they sabotage. You see it everywhere…people who want to lose weight and last about 3 months before they sabotage their success….or people who want more money and stick to their budget for 6 months before falling back into old patterns…or people who get exactly what they want in a relationship, yet after 6 weeks, 6 months, a year….they sabotage it. And again, what is IMPORTANT to understand, is they have no idea they are sabotaging because the reasons in their mind make sense or the feelings they have are so strong, it just makes sense to them. I can’t tell you how many times a happy couple breaks up because all of a sudden, one person “falls out of love.” This is so hard for people to understand, but I get it because I’m the type to open up my baggage and be in relationship with all the crap I held onto. SOOOOOOO many times I have cleared something out and it instantly changed how I was feeling or what I wanted. It’s truly fascinating. That is why FEELINGS ARE NOT FACTS. People tend to make decisions according to how they feel without ever exploring WHERE those feelings come from. It’s a rare person who does that, because it’s incredibly uncomfortable and very hard to do….but well worth it in my opinion. My feelings DO NOT guide me. They are simply something to explore further.
I feel like I’m on a roller coaster right now: some days I feel like I’m ready to close this chapter of my life and believe that I’ll meet someone who’s just for me instead of trying to change someone who doesn’t want to change. Other days I miss my ex and think that we both needed this lesson (each of us differently) to be better partners for each other. I’m tired, it’s really energy draining. More and more often I think that I should redirect all the energy I spend trying to fix this relationship to my career, life goals and family. This relationship was toxic, and I have to admit that it failed. However, I am grateful to my ex-partner for this lesson, for his support during a very difficult time for me and for all the good things he did for me. It’s VERY normal to be on that roller coaster ride when saying goodbye to love. Over time, you will stabilize. You are supposed to feel tire and drained. AND…it’s going to be much more tough on you, because failure, for you, is super tough because of whatever story you have about what it means about you to fail. Something to explore if you are willing.
What do you think of Colin Tipping’s radical forgiveness? I love the concept, and I really think my boyfriend played a part in the lessons I had to learn, and I did mine for him. We performed this dance together and we should be grateful to each other for it. I have no idea who this guy is, but I will definitely look him up! I am absolutely 100% in alignment with forgiving everything and anything. I had an INCREDIBLY challenging life growing up. The gift….I learned that it’s possible to forgive anything. I will ALWAYS choose to forgive – even the darkest, most horrific acts. I forgive because it’s the kind of person I want to be. I forgive because if I don’t, I am the only who pays the prices by holding onto the anger, the hurt, the pain. Joy and love and laughter and happiness become less accessible the more pain is held onto….as you are currently experiencing. That’s not what I want. I want freedom. I want to stay empowered. I want emotional soveriegnty….so I forgive 🙂
I’m loving talking with you!!!
Heidi
Hi Darya! Thank you for sharing your feelings and thoughts! They are all great points and questions. I can see how you came to some conclusions, so let me clarify some things. This platform of typing VERY complicated concepts can be tough sometimes because a lot is missed, so stick with me here and make sure to keep sharing your perspectives and questions, so you can best guide me where I may be going amiss.
However, it seems you are not a big fan of James’ theory. Your main message is to move on and not waste my time on this man and this relationship. Is this correct? I LOVE his theory. It’s spot on, however it’s not the whole picture. Nothing is really. We, as people, are soooooo incredibly dynamic and multilayered and infinite. So what James talks about is spot on about a lot of things, but his concepts don’t apply to every single situation.
Also, I NEVER feel that anything is ever a waste of time. Whether you choose to continue pursuing this relationship or decide to let it go, BOTH paths have lessons and gifts for you. There is ALWAYS something to learn about yourself and something you can heal in either direction. I’m assuming you want a deep, connective, authentic, open type of love and connection. That is pretty impossible with someone who does not forgive. Yes, there can be love and connection to a certain point, but it will ALWAYS be limited. You will ALWAYS bump into an immovable wall that he has up (not that he is even aware of it). The anger and fear that fills that wall will ALWAYS be stronger and more powerful than love. Can that be shifted and changed? Absolutely. Anyone can change, but it has to be THEIR choice and he has to be willing to forgiven and let go of the past. And….if he isn’t able to forgive his sister and his ex and anyone else who is thrown in that mix, he also will not be able to forgive you and your humanness. His anger is strong enough that it will only take a small transgression for him to put you in the mix of another woman he cannot trust. This kind of stuff never goes away. All he is doing is burying it and while it’s buried, it continues to grow stronger and grow over time. That’s just how it works for anyone. That’s why we ALL have “baggage” that we bring into relationships that sabotage connection in some form or fashion. Whatever we haven’t resolved in our past, gets triggered by relationships in the present. If someone only knows how to bury things, then whatever happens in the present just adds to the baggage. Or…if someone gets triggered, they could use it as an opportunity for healing and release more of their baggage. From what you are telling me, your guy has no clue how to do that and he doesn’t sound like he is interested in learning how. And this is something you cannot do for him. He has to make that choice all on his own, because it is a VERY personal and challenging journey for someone to face their baggage and it’s definitely not something you do on your own. He will need an expert to help him through it. A coach, a therapist, a group, a program he signs up for. What lives in our baggage is a foreign language for someone who hasn’t studied it, so it’s crucial to have a guide to help interpret what is actually happening and how to navigate the level of fear that comes with it. Does this make sense? I’m giving a very general overview and there are MANY more things to say about this, but I don’t want to overwhelm or go too far, so let me know your thoughts on this.
But shouldn’t I give him a chance to grow up and mature? Is he really that hopeless? Grow and mature? He has had MANY years to do that already. He sounds very young emotionally and I would hate to see you step into a “mother” type of role with him where you are spending your time and energy trying to nurture him into a space that he needs to go to on his own. He doesn’t need a parent in you. He needs an equal and that means you accepting him for exactly who he is and how he wants to live his life. And if that means he doesn’t want to talk about things with you, he gets to do that. Do you really want to be that person trying to CONVINCE him he needs to share his authentic feelings, whatever they may be, with you? Here’s the thing Darya….we ALL have coping mechanisms in how we handle stress. They NEVER go away and it’s our coping mechanisms that sabotages connection. Someone who is more connected to their baggage and has a skillset to handle it, they handle their coping mechanisms with skill. So for example, my coping mechanism is to run away and become unavailable. That instinct has never left me, but what I am able to do, is handle myself in an adult way when that part of me gets activated. I consciously CHOOSE to stay present, connected, and work through my fears with someone if I need to. I hold myself accountable and set myself up for success when I am triggered. I know myself soooooo deeply that when I get triggered, I know exactly what it’s about, I know how to handle it, I know how to forgive, I know how to heal and I always end with feeling gratitude for the experience of being triggered because it brought up some old wounds that needed to be resolved. I can do this because I have studied myself for decades, I have had expert help for decades, and I am constantly learning and growing. Someone who does not do this, means their coping mechanism, whatever that may be, will run the show whenever they are triggered. Their saboteur is more in control of their life and will constantly ruin their success in any area where fear and anger and hurt are living. So that’s why I’m saying that your guy is who he is and most likely will not change. He has been holding onto some pretty intense anger since he was a child and he is not willing to let it go, even though his sister is gone. That kind of anger and fear is VERY strong and will always overpower love until he faces it. So I’m not saying for you to give up on him, I’m saying give up the idea that he is going to operate any differently. Accept who he is and how he wants to live his life. He WANTS to keep his anger. He WANTS to hold onto the past and he deserves a partner who can accept this about him, instead of needing him to change.
No one is hopeless. However, I have found that if someone has not had enough drive or curiosity about themselves by the time they reach your age, the odds of them becoming that are pretty low, unless something major happens to them…like a near death experience, or losing something they deeply love….some kind of wake up call that inspires them to get help in some way.
And it was partly my fault, because I felt too vulnerable to hear him say unflattering things about his feelings for me, and I didn’t insist him to go all the way and clear things up. Yes, I’m sure you contributed to this, but it doesn’t change HIS choice. You did not make him stay silent. He is a grown, independent man and has the freedom to make his own choices just as you do. If he is not strong enough to be honest and open with you, REGARDLESS of your reaction, then that’s on HIM…not you. If he doesn’t feel safe to do that with you, then he needs to re-evaluate why he is with a partner that he doesn’t feel safe with to be honest. It is not YOUR responsibility to open HIM up. Your responsibility ONLY is for you to show up as the best person possible and that’s it. It’s not only YOUR job to insist on going further to clear things up. Why can’t HE be the person to do that as well? It’s a partnership here. You both help each other go to places that are scary, right? The truth is, he didn’t want to go there either and that is not your fault. It’s how he lives and approaches his life.
For me, the irony is that redirecting my emotions to the pain of breaking up with my boyfriend almost healed my grief from losing my husband. Although I still miss him, of course, it doesn’t block my ability to love someone else. I think I’ve finally forgiven myself and am ready to allow myself to find happiness again. I’m not saying the loss of your husband blocked your ability to love. I was more saying that it blocked your ability to love DEEPLY and FREELY. Love is infinite and limitless and how deep we are willing to go with love, is reflected by how deeply we are in relationship with ourselves and our shadow side…that side of us that holds all the fear, the anger, the resentment, the shame etc. It’s actually THAT side of us, that determines how deeply we love. And I”m glad to hear that you feel you have forgiven yourself and feel more healed. This is so great!
And secondly, why do I still miss him, love him, and can’t get over him if he was just like crutches for me? Like I said above, I wasn’t implying that your current guy was a crutch completely. I was implying that in SOME WAYS he may have been a crutch for you. It doesn’t mean you can’t still love someone, even though you may be using them in some ways to avoid pain. It’s not a bad thing…it’s a VERY NORMAL human thing we ALL do. We all are using each other to feel things, to avoid things, to learn things on sooooo many levels. Most do not have the conscious awareness of it though. That’s why I started out saying that relationships are VERY VERY dynamic and multilayered. Science has shown us that over 80% of our thoughts and feelings are sourced by the subconscious – the place that we are not connected to. So most people are walking around doing and feeling things they have no understanding about and take it at face value. For example, I would watch myself be attracted to the “bad boy” type ALL THE TIME. The feelings were strong and the chemistry off the charts. Were those feelings real? Nope. I grew up with a narcissist father, so I was tuned to the emotionally unavailable type of guy. It was what I knew. I was constantly trying to FINALLY earn the love I craved my whole life. So it was my WOUNDED self that caused me to be attracted to these men who were unavailable and would never treat me the way I wanted. You actually this everywhere….people wanting to lose weight, yet sneaking desserts, people wanting more money but won’t stick to a budget, people wanting healthier more connective relationships, yet they choose someone who is emotionally unavailable. People are constantly sabotaging exactly what they want because the baggage from their past – the fear, the pain, the heartbreak they are holding onto – is stronger than their desire to be happy and get what they want. Again, this is a VERY complicated concept that I teach in person, so trying to explain it here is quite limiting, but I’m hoping it’s coming across the way I intend. Let me know how this lands on you.
I have no idea how this would work! Maybe this is just a natural phase of the healing process, and I need more time to reach the next level of openness to a new relationship? What do you think? I think that it’s okay to have no idea how it would work and to not try to know. I think that if you just allow yourself to be in the present moment and let the rest of it fall away, you will be living your life more fully. Anytime we are trying to figure out something that hasn’t even happened yet, it’s the part of ourselves that is reaching for control. I want to invite you into just trusting that when and if someone shows up that inspires you to open your heart and your world, you will figure it out at that time. Until then, just enjoy what you have right now and keep growing with what shows up in front of you each day.
Thanks for sticking with me Darya! Keep asking questions!!
Heidi
Thank you for sharing more details. It’s great that you moved to different place so you both don’t run into each other. It sounds like there has been a light, easy, and simple kind of connection since you moved, but nothing much beyond that. I’m assuming you haven’t seen him in person in quite a while, yes?
I want to be honest here. From what you have shared about your interactions, it doesn’t appear that this guy views you as someone other than a casual friend. Being that YOU initiate everything and nothing really goes beyond simple, surface conversations, I’m not sure there is much to work with here. I can offer suggestions, but when it’s the girl chasing the guy – even at the surface level that exists right now…it typically signifies a guy not interested in anything more. When a person WANTS something, they go after it. Yes, he is responsive to you, but he is not showing any signs that would indicate he might be interested in you.
It sounds like you need to find out for sure though. So first, I want to ask…are you willing to lose the connection you have right now? Because as soon as you turn it up a notch and try to take this connection to another level, you are saying goodbye to how things are right now and you can’t go back. It will never feel the same. So are you willing to do that?
If yes, I would suggest finding ways to start to meet in person – in group activities. The moment you change the pattern and start to ask him to do activities solo, he will instantly know you are wanting something more with him. If you find activities to invite him to in a group setting, you both will feel much more relaxed and will have an easier time getting to know each other without it feeling like a date. Since you know his interests, are those things you are also interested in? If you like golf, is there a charity event you both can go to? Or are there any activities for the holidays that you can invite him and his friends to join along?
Heidi
Hi Darya! Great to hear from you. Sharing everything you did was extremely helpful!
I’m sure you figured this out already, but make sure you always reply on this platform and NOT through your gmail, because I won’t see it that way.
Okay….so let’s dive in.
I first want to commend you for your self-awareness. It sounds like you have a pretty clear understanding about yourself and how you have been ineffective in the relationship. I LOVE that because it means that you are willing and able to look at YOUR limitations and own them….which is the first step to becoming a better partner.
I am soooooo so sorry for the loss of your husband. He died in your arms and I imagine that is the best gift you could have ever given him. It’s heartbreaking and incredibly beautiful and sacred the way you were there for him.
I’m going to just be very direct here and go straight to the core of why you both are no longer together. It has nothing to do with the hero instinct…or lack thereof. It has to do with HIS lack of trust when it comes to women and love and it has to do with YOUR not feeling completely safe to open your heart to him…you still have some strings tied to your husband and the loss of him that are preventing you from truly being available for a new experience. So in essence, you BOTH have parts of you that are not available to each other – and it leaks out in different ways.
If we were to focus on him, there is one MAJOR red flag here that instantly tells you he will NEVER be a good partner for anyone. He isn’t willing to forgive. If he is still holding onto the past about his sister and his anger that comes with that, then he will NEVER trust a woman, he will never feel internally safe with a woman, and he will always sabotage happiness and connection. The anger he is holding onto is what will prevent him from ever loving deeply – and then of course you add on top of that his ex cheating on him and that just fuels the fire. So this relationship with him was doomed from the beginning. He DOES NOT have what it takes to have a deep, intimate, connective, nourishing love to offer and nor does he have the ability to receive it. It doesn’t matter how much you make him feel like a hero, his anger and his lack of trust of women will ALWAYS block intimacy and connection and it will ALWAYS stop him from growing deeper with a woman. And instead of recognizing this within himself, he points the finger at you – another BIG RED FLAG. He blames you and says “YOU didn’t want to go public” instead of owning how he feels and talking to you about it. He is so angry and so hurt (from his past) that the way he wants to live his life is hole up in a home and make his life very small. The pain he is carrying is causing him to want to shrink his life, instead of facing it so he can grow from it. He wants to blame YOU for all the things that didn’t go right, because he is way too fragile to own up to how he has contributed. So it’s important for you to truly see who he is, how he wants to live his life, and that he will never be able to offer you what you want. You need to accept this, and then from that acceptance, decide if this is the kind of relationship you want. Is he a person you want holding the most sacred part of you….your heart? Do you feel SAFE to completely open up and give him your heart because you trust that he knows how to respect it, care for it, and take care of it? If not, then it’s time to consider letting him go and allow yourself to heal.
As far as what YOU have to offer, it sounds like the loss of your husband was very impactful and that there are still some things that you need to heal from. It’s normal to feel guilt about moving on and it’s normal to want the same kind of love and experience. Maybe it’s time to work through some of that stuff and free yourself from your past as well. I’m guessing that your current guy was a stand in on some level to help you not feel so alone when your husband passed…and that you wanted to turn your connection with the current guy into something similar that you had with your husband instead of letting it just be it’s own entity. Maybe it’s time for you to be completely alone, so you can discover more of your fears, more of what you are carrying around in your emotional baggage, and where you have your own blocks to love.
Looking forward to your thoughts!
Heidi
