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what do you feel about this move of him after such a long time? Do you think he was testing the waters or just a proper act and that’s it? Like I said before, it’s impossible to truly know what he is thinking and feeling. My best guess is, it’s a mixture of both being polite as well as testing the waters with you to see where you were at. I want to encourage you to let go of playing the guessing game of how he is feeling. It’s very common for women to analyze every single little thing a guy does, in efforts to understand how and what he is feeling. I cannot even tell you HOW MUCH OF A WASTE OF TIME that truly is. You are trying to put together a puzzle without all the pieces. Bottom line is, it’s not YOUR JOB to guess and interpret how he feels. It’s HIS job to communicate what he wants and until that time, you actually know nothing more than what he has already told you directly.
I would like to travel in August for a month(but this I haven’t planned) because being alone bothers me a bit.
I have traveled alone but joined in on a group vacation. It was so fun! I met other people and had a really great time. Maybe something to consider. There are plenty of travel companies that put groups together to tour an area.If he decides to reconnect, I will definitely not speed things as you say but of course I will not do that for long and always have his pace not a mutual pace. He first needs to earn my trust again which is so hard to achieve, he needs to try a lot and earn his place back in my life. Also, he needs to show if he wants to be with me, I won’t accept surface level approach. Also, I thought to also show him at first maybe I am not going to take him back, he needs to wonder a bit. I cannot give it to him straight in this plate.
He needs a lot of work to be with me again. Also, he needs to say that he regret all of this and he is willing to give me what I deserve i.e commitment, consistency and all of that no more one and off and up and down emotionally. And the answer to your question, is no I won’t open instantly. I need to see all of the above. Let’s talk about this, because your actions are not aligning with your words.You are here wondering how he feels. You are analyzing every aspect of his behavior in efforts to see how he feels – all because you want him back. If you didn’t want him back, none of this would matter and you wouldn’t be here trying to understand what HE is feeling. But in the above statement, you are saying it’s hard to earn your trust, he has to work really hard to be in your life, and he has to show you he wants commitment with you combined with regretting his choice and he is not getting everything handed to him on a silver platter. These are 2 very different things happening here. On one hand he has to work very hard to get back in and then on the other hand, you are staying connected, approachable, meeting HIS needs by keeping things surface, you posted a picture of the candle, you were excited about him reaching out – HE IS ALREADY IN!!! YOU have chosen to stay connected by posting that picture. YOU had a conversation with him that clearly showed him there was an open door for him to come back into your life. I’m not seeing where he has to work for anything here.
It’s important to get more clear about this Nafsika, because otherwise you will confuse him. What EXACTLY does it mean that he has to work for it? What does that look like in action? What EXACTLY do you need him to do to earn your trust back?
Let’s also look at the reality here. He is avoidant and that is not going to change. What you are wanting from him is not realistic for who he is. He will run when things get hard. He will not want to talk about anything and he will ALWAYS struggle to connect more deeply and be vulnerable. Yet you want his commitment, you want his regret, you won’t accept a surface level approach (which is who he is), you want consistency and no more up and down (avoidants cannot offer that). These things you are wanting from him are things he is not able to offer you, because he has a lot of fear and a lot of baggage that he is not willing to face within himself. Basically, you are saying he would need to make some MASSIVE changes if he were to ever be allowed back into your life. And these are changes, while healthy and would improve the relationship, are changes that are incredibly difficult to make and would require A LOT of internal work for him.
He is NOT emotionally available for you and never has been. So if you want him back, YOU have to accept who he is. YOU have to accept that he comes with a lot of baggage and he will avoid challenges, he will avoid communicating, he will avoid deep intimacy, and he will avoid getting close. He can only do so much Nafsika.
I think that what you are wanting from him is beyond what he can offer and this is not fair to him. So you have 2 choices. 1. accept him for who he is and let him back in. He deserves to be loved and embraced for who he is and NOT for who you need him to be. What you want from him is not something he can offer you. 2. Accept him for who he is and let him go. Acceptance means that you don’t need him to change and you understand you want something more than what he can offer….and it’s best to let him go so he doesn’t hurt you anymore and you don’t hurt him. Acceptance means you embrace that you and him are not a match anymore. And this means you let him go entirely. No more indirectly connecting. He is not invited to come see your shop. There is no more contact. You cannot heal from this loss as long as there is any contact.
With either choice, YOUR job is truly see him for who he is and not require him to become someone that he isn’t ready to be…and he may never be ready for that. What you are asking for are NOT some simple behavioral changes. These are DEEP changes that would require him to face his fears, face his low self-esteem, confront his pain and hurt, and learn a completely new way to live his life and how to function in a relationship in more healthy way.
The best analogy I can use to explain this is: Imagine there is a snake pit along your walking path. You see the snake pit, you jump in and you get bit all over. So much pain and hurt! The snake pit represents your relationship with him. The snakes are his toxic behaviors and choices that sabotage connection with you. Your list of requirements above means you want to be able to jump into that snake pit and NOT have those snakes bite you! That is asking those snakes to NOT be what they are. You threaten them by jumping into their pit and they CANNOT HELP but bite you. It is a protective mechanism and they have every right to protect themselves. So you want THEM to change????
So again – choice 1: keep jumping in the snake pit and know you will get bit and know it’s going hurt.
Choice 2: you don’t jump in the snake pit and let them be who they want to be and don’t disturb them. Let them be peaceful.I know these 2 choices are NOT what you want. I know you want him to fight for you. I know you want him to change. I know you want to have a much more healthy connection. What you want is beautiful and nourishing and deep and loving. The problem here is, you want it with someone who is not ready to be any of those things. He has a lot of fear and baggage that will ALWAYS sabotage intimacy and he cannot help it. The only way for that to change is for him to get some help from some type of expert who would be able to help guide him through his fears.
What are your thoughts on all of this?
Heidi
Hi Nafsika! Great to hear from you. Thank you for the update!
You both have been through so much! That was very thoughtful of you to post a candle for his father.
I have no idea what his mindset is, but I imagine that as he climbs out of the shock and sadness and dealing with all that comes with loss, he will become more available to connect.
It was a great conversation. You did well! You didn’t push, you kept things more on the surface, you were responsive to him. This probably helped him feel a bit more comfortable to connect with you. If he does decide he wants to connect more with you, what I mostly suggest is to just let him decide the speed of everything…how often he wants to connect, how often he wants to see you, and what he wants to talk about. The more you keep creating a safe place for him to connect with, the more he should feel comfortable moving forward with you. I have no idea if he would ever want to get back together though. That obviously is only something he would be able to answer. But considering this most recent text conversation, he is ready to open the door at least a little bit.
So my question to you is this…what do you NEED from him in order to move forward? Let’s say he does want to get back together. Are you open to that instantly, or do you feel you need something from him before jumping back in?
That’s an interesting feeling you have about wanting to go somewhere new. It makes sense that being on an island creates limitation. It sounds like your soul is needing variety….to feel new ways, to smell new things, to see things you haven’t seen before. Is it possible to maybe go on a vacation to see if that helps?
Heidi
Hey there! I thought I’d check in and see how things are going. How are you doing? What are you feeling? Any new developments? Any questions? I’d love an update.
Heidi
Hey Lori!
I thought I’d check in. How is everything progressing? Are you happy with this relationship? Are you both still doing a lot of talking and figuring things out? What’s the update? I’d love to hear.
Heidi
Hi Jessica! There is no message here, so I’m not sure how to help guide you. What are you feeling overwhelmed about?
Heidi
Hi Vicki!
Well it sounds like you are very clear about how you want to move forward. Do you have any other questions? Is there anything else you want to explore or ask?
Heidi
I’ve read this hot and cold thing keeps me addicted and I believe it because I have such a difficult time not thinking about him. Yes, this is a form of addiction. I’m guessing your parents set this up in you somehow…to be attracted and chase after an unavailable man. It’s the whole “scarcity” thing. We want MORE of what we can’t have. The energy of scarcity increases the wanting and then when you get it, even if for a moment – the “fix” is insanely powerful and then the cycle starts all over again. He pulls away, puts you in scarcity, you chase him, he gives you a little something, you get a fix…rinse and repeat.
This is definitely a universal thing too and just part of the psyche. There is a book called “The Game” and it’s about this secret club of men who spend time studying women. They create ways to figure out how to get what they want – how to conquer the female. There are MANY ways they go about doing it, but they practice and share tactics amongst the members. The whole scarcity thing is one of their tactics and this is how it can play out….Imagine a guy at a club. He sees his “target” who is with her 3 other girlfriends, standing in a circle drinking and talking. What’s his play? He goes up to the group of girls and starts a conversation. He engages with each of them, EXCEPT the one he really wants. He ignores her. Why? Because it creates scarcity and that naturally will make her think and feel like she wants him. She will feel “Why is he ignoring me? Am I not interesting? Am I not pretty enough? What’s wrong with me?” She will then find herself WANTING his attention and so he gets her into the position of chasing him. He plays hard to get for a bit and then BAM….he finally gives her attention which will magnify her feelings of “He is FINALLY choosing me.” She will feel special. She will feel chosen. She will want more. She will be easier to get into bed, because she is now in the position and mindset of NOT wanting to feel rejected by him again, so she will want to make him feel good and she will want to keep giving him reasons to choose her. This tactic is INCREDIBLY powerful. She is liking him and wanting to give him whatever he wants and she doesn’t even question whether or not she actually likes him. He set her up.
Now let’s look at the deeper truth here. This type of tactic – the hot and cold game – really only works on a woman who is not connecting to her own value. If a woman were to TRULY connect to her queen energy…her power…her beauty…her strength – she would not need anyone to choose her. She chooses herself and because of that…any man who wants to interact with her must treat her like gold. He must see the divine in her. He must see the beauty she encompasses. He must know the treasure he is standing in front of. And in return, she treats him the same and sees him the same. It’s only when a person is disconnected from themselves, disconnected from their value, that they look to others to show them. This guy does NOT have the ability to value you Vicki. He is quite limited and that’s okay. AND…you keep chasing after him, even as a friend, because you are looking for HIM to choose you, instead of you choosing yourself. YOU are the one teaching him that it’s okay to treat you this way. YOU are the one saying yes to this hot and cold connection. YOU are the one who keeps negotiating away how you want to be treated, because you so badly want connection.
If you were the CEO / Founder of a multi-billion dollar company and it was YOUR job to make sure that every employee supported your vision, would you hire this guy? Your company is your HEART! Your heart is sacred. Your love is valuable. Your connection is priceless. And when you hire an employee, their job is to care for your heart according to YOUR standards. This is what dating is…it’s an interview between 2 people looking to hire someone for a high level position in their hearts. Successful companies hold to their standards and become abundant. Failing companies do not. You are failing in your business by choosing to keep this guy on as an employee on any level. He is NOT a friend. He is NOT a lover. He is NOT skilled enough to do a good job to support your heart. That is VERY evident, yet you want to keep him on as an employee…and employee that causes HARM to your business!!! STOP! Love yourself enough to say no more. Every time you think about him, shut that down and say “NO! He is fired. End of story.” You have got to stop allowing your brain to participate in this toxic pattern and the only way to do that is to fire him from your company and have no more contact…EVER!
but there’s always this little voice that says “what if”. That is the voice of a part of you that so desperately wants to be loved and connected with. Love yourself. It’s NOT his job to fill that hole within in you. It’s YOUR job. It’s not easy, it’s not comfortable, it’s difficult AND it’s rewarding, it’s strengthening, it’s self esteem building, it’s empowering. Tell your “what if” voice this…”I know you want to connect and I know how good it feels. I got you though. I CHOOSE YOU. I LOVE YOU and I’m always here for you. You matter to ME. I will take care of you.” I had to do this over and over and over and over again…hundreds of times as I worked on breaking this very same toxic pattern of chasing after men who were not available. Now I am free from it and I want to encourage you to do the same!!
Thoughts?
Heidi
Hi Vicki,
Yes, you get it. Him getting upset over nothing is exactly what I am talking about. It’s his system sending out “danger” signals that you are entering in the “no trespassing” zone. We all have one…even against ourselves – especially if you grow up with a parent who caused a lot of harm. That pain, the stories, the memories, the feelings all get locked away in the catacombs and to enter that zone means having to feel all of that again – and who wants that??? I have seen men who were in the special forces and facing death over and over and over again, NOT willing to go into that “no trespassing” zone within themselves…that’s how big the fear can be. It’s a rare person who is willing to go there. The reality is, if someone is not willing to go there themselves, there is no way anyone else is getting in. Alarms are set at the entrance of that place and anytime someone gets close, the sabotage “dogs” are let loose and wreak havoc in whatever way they can to keep that person away. It’s a VERY complicated system and again…few have the awareness. Your guy may be aware that you are “getting too close” but he has no clue what is really happening. All he knows is that he feels a certain way (and he can’t help it) and he has to follow how he feels, because that fear that inspires the sabotage is waaaaay too big. I used to be like that too. It took a TON of deep healing work to shift it, to where now I am more skilled, more aware, and I have people who can help me work with the fear when it comes up.
That’s how any of us are able to shift our patterns. You may be aware of your splits, but if you don’t directly work with that side of yourself that sabotages your well being and what you truly want, then you will be pulled back into that pattern of connecting with an emotionally unavailable man…whether it’s him or someone else.
He still says he’s not happy about the breakup and doesn’t want a relationship with anyone but I know he dates and I’m sure has sex probably as an ego boost, just like with me. I know he still cares, and still loved me when he ended it. He doesn’t have the ability to be happy. That emotional baggage he is carrying around will always keep him small, unhappy, and like an addict, looking for the next thing to try and make him feel happy. He is trying to feel better by using the outside world, like sex and women, to relieve him of the pain he carries. He is doing the very best he can, as he doesn’t know any better. And for most people, living a life like that is much less scary than facing what lives in those catacombs…at least that is the story they believe, because that is how our system sets it up to create a feelings of “safety.” It’s our system protecting us. Does this make sense?
Heidi
Hi Vicki!
Welcome! Man, this is so tough to deal with, isn’t it? It hurts the heart and with someone who is so hot and cold, the heart feels good then breaks, then feels good, then breaks…rinse and repeat until you decide you’ve had enough.
You are asking a really great question. I’ll give you the general, core answer, but the details will vary depending on what the guy and what he dealing with.
The core answer is this: there is a strong enough part of them that is not ready to fully invest. Your guy is dealing with what is called a “split.” This is when there are 2 parts that are very strong, and they want different things – and whichever part is strongest in the moment, is who is in the driver’s seat. This is a symptom of someone carrying a lot of fear about something. One part is EXTREMELY fearful to fall in love, be vulnerable, be authentic, be in relationship with someone and allow themselves to be seen and known….and the other part WANTS all of that. So in some moments, he wants to deeply connect, but then the fear will kick in, shut off his emotions and make him want to disconnect. This is the general way that “splits” work. It’s not different than someone wanting to go sober and it will last for however long, then that other part kicks in and sabotages sobriety and they are back at it. Or someone wanting to lose weight and able to stick to a healthier eating plan, and then the other part kicks in and says “Nope…I want those carbs, I want to eat whatever I want, I want comfort food etc.” and the healthy eating goes out the window. We see this “split” all the time – people wanting one thing, but then making decisions that sabotage what they want. Let’s take you for example. You want a deep, meaningful, nourishing relationship, yes? You broke up, found yourself, but then you got pulled back into HIS pattern and lost yourself again. So that should help you understand how STRONG these 2 parts of ourselves are and how it’s an internal battle and whomever wins in the moment makes the decision (like that part of you that “gave in” to benefits with him, knowing it’s not what you really wanted.
He has the same dynamic going on within him. He has no control over those parts of himself, just you didn’t either. AND….most people have NO CLUE about these 2 sides operating within them. All they know is they feel one way and then they don’t. And most people just follow and make decisions by how they FEEL. Little does anyone know that their feelings are being driven by past wounds, negative stories around love and so on…which all lead back to one feeling….FEAR. And again, many would say they don’t feel fear – but the truth is, they are NOT connected to what is happening VERY DEEP within their nervous system and deep within their psyche where the fear lives. And when that fear gets strong enough, it will show up through sabotaging. He sabotages by disconnecting, you sabotaged yourself by saying yes to the benefits, another person who wants to spend more time with their kids, will end up taking an “important” phone call while in the middle of playtime, or someone wanting to lose weight will sneak cookies while in their car.
It all boils down to low self-esteem. The more someone sabotages, the more low self-esteem they have. When it comes to love, it is typically where people sabotage the most, because their is a lot of unprocessed pain from their past, living in their system – feeding the fear. Let’s say your guy grew up with an alcoholic mother – she was unpredictable, unstable, but said “I love you so much” all the time, while forgetting to buy groceries or pick him up from school. As a child, he will pair “I love you” with instability. So as he grows older and dates, he will get his heart broken and that will contribute to “love = pain.” But it’s tough because he DOES want to fall in love and feel that intimacy with someone, but that fear will ALWAYS stop that from happening…so he will get close, then pull away. Then he will get close, then pull away. Over and over and over again. If he is a big flirt, he may have a sex addiction or just get his self esteem by hooking women and then leaving them – which is a “revenge” type of pattern towards “women” who represent his mother – who would pull him in, love him, comfort him, then get drunk and forget about him….over and over and over. I don’t know what his childhood was like, but this is how “love” gets paired with pain and fear in the formative years. And when it goes unprocessed, it leads into adulthood and that fear and pain will CHOOSE who our partners are in life. And it takes some VERY aware and VERY emotionally intelligent to catch these patterns within themself. To this day, I still have some of these patterns, but because I am aware of them, I can catch them sooner than later and help myself.
Does this make sense?
Here are 2 GREAT podcasts that explain this concept really well. It will help you understand him, as well as yourself and why you chose to go back to him in the first place.
Here is part 1: https://open.spotify.com/episode/366y73CWYd8bgDxdRhxhtp?si=IWmfAME0R2KaE8ANaiHoMA
Here is part 2: https://open.spotify.com/episode/6a0R5vGXL0s0v1n7FVYTSa?si=-JgCQaU6RwmFFEPnux4gPQHopefully I was able to bring some understanding. Let’s keep talking about this, because it is a VERY layered and dynamic thing that lives within all of us, and it’s important to understand. I know it won’t necessarily change the hurt you feel, but maybe it will help you not take it personally. He would do this to anyone. He is not emotionally set up to feel safe to bond, love, connect, and be vulnerable….and all of that was established in his formative years most likely.
Heidi
Hi Nafsika,
I understand your confusion. Men and women view and experience relationships in very different ways and that’s why it can be confusing. Let’s keep talking this through!
I need to mention here, that he told me he never had a “real” relationship, meaning all his relationships were long distant. And now I am thinking, maybe now where he has a normal situation he was afraid for it? This is another red flag. His pattern tells me that the long distance relationship is actually perfect for him. He gets to have his own time, his own life, and then still have a girlfriend that he doesn’t have to deal with on a daily basis, but instead on weekend trips and daily short connections. If he is not a very good communicator, long distance works great for that! I’d be willing to bet that if his last relationship of 4 years lived in the same space as him, like you do, they would not have lasted 4 years.
Also, he admitted and it was one topic he was working with his therapist, about communicating properly his thoughts. Communication is a tough one. Somehow along the way, he learned that it wasn’t safe to use his voice. Usually parents will teach that through reacting to their child’s feelings and needs in a way that doesn’t feel safe for the child. They might criticize, they might make fun of them, they might get angry, they might completely disregard their child’s feelings….who knows…but if it wasn’t his parents, then it came through other channels. This one can take quite a long time to develop. I’m wondering why he is so shut down – but it is a symptom of some pretty big fear.
Things changed, and if you find someone who you feel so good and 100% yourself I cannot really understand why he still choses not live it and let me go. I don’t know why he doesn’t have the feelings for you. Like I said before, it could be that he just doesn’t and he feels complete with his experiences with you, it could be that his system shut down because a relationship in person is too scary and too intimate for him to feel safe (not trusting love, not trusting a woman, not feeling safe to be emotionally vulnerable) – usually it’s one of these feelings and again – these are things that most people are NOT aware of that live deep inside their nervous system. And these kinds of feelings CONTROL EVERYTHING. They control how the person feels, what they decide, who they invest in, when to quit, when to stay….and if the person is not aware of these VERY SUBTLE deep feelings, then the person just follows how they feel and that’s it. It’s sad really, because it’s sabotage and they don’t know it and they can’t help how they feel. In order to shift something like that, they need to get to know themselves on a much deeper level and explore their own patterns….something most people don’t want to do, because it’s scary.
I know you asked a couple of times in the beginning about making sure he felt good about choosing to be with you. I have no doubt that he DID feel good and he was being honest. The thing is, when someone doesn’t understand or know their deep, subtle feelings, they will not know or understand that what they are feeling is not clear and their feelings are being driven by fear. Think about it Nafsika….he was in relationship for 4 years!!! That is a very long time. Do you really think that he was clear to hop into another relationship within a few months??? Absolutely not! I don’t care how unhappy they were, or that it was long distance, or that feelings went away long before the breakup. They were connected for 4 years and that takes some time to process. It takes time to heal. But he did not allow that for himself. He hopped right back into an experience with you, WITHOUT going through a normal, healthy grieving process. This is why rebounds never work. Eventually, they break because those grieving feelings that got buried, will eventually show up in the new relationship in ways that sabotage the current connection. He was NOT emotionally ready to hop into another experience with a new person and the fact that he did, tells you how much he runs from dealing with the hard emotions of life. He may have a therapist, but I am wondering how much his therapist is actually challenging him and taking him to the places inside of him that he doesn’t want to face. Some therapists are just great listeners and validators and allow the client to take the lead during sessions.
Now, he has to face the loss of his father. I too would not be surprised if he went home to be with his family. If that is his choice, I know your heart will break, but he is only doing what he feels is best for his heart.
I know the pain is awful. You WILL heal. It takes time and it takes grieving and it takes forgiving, and most of all, the fastest way to heal for YOU to close the door on your heart. You keep trying to figure out what went wrong and how you can fix it and that’s very normal. But it also will keep the pain alive and growing. You will never truly know what happened, because I don’t think he even understands it. So it’s going to have to be okay that you don’t have clear answers. You need to get into a space of acceptance for his choice, feel the pain of the loss and ending with him and close the door. You need to help your mind settle down by creating an ending vs. allowing it to loop over and over and over trying to make sense of it. That’s torture and definitely keeps the pain alive. So if you want to heal, it’s time to let this go. Let him be who he needs to be and accept that he is not interested in moving forward. He doesn’t feel how he needs to feel to keep this going and why that is, who knows. It’s just a bunch of educated guesses, and that is going to have to be enough.
I’m so sorry Nafsika. I know dating is so hard and finding someone you get to be 100% yourself with. You are going to have to trust that you will be okay. Being single can and is a really beautiful thing too! There is soooooo much to explore in life and within yourself when you don’t have to think about or consider someone else. There are many gifts waiting for you as you heal from this heartbreak – and that journey will begin for you once you accept his choice and accept that it doesn’t make sense and accept that it’s over and close the door. Until you close that door, healing will not be available to you.
Besides…even if he did come back and you got back together, do you REALLY think everything will be easy again? You will not trust him. You will always be wondering how he REALLY is feelings. You will have a part of you waiting for things to end, because despite what he said to you in the beginning, he changed. So this relationship would NOT be the same relationship. It would be very different and you would not feel as safe and open and vulnerable, because he broke the trust and safety. If he did this once, he absolutely can do it again. Is that what you want? To continually walk on eggshells wondering if his feelings will change again?
Heidi
Great to hear from you Nafsika!
Let’s keep talking about this!!!
I lean towards the 2nd case where he doesn’t know how to handle his emotions. Although, he grew up in a very loving environment and he is very close with his family and they are all very connected. Therefore, the fact that he is afraid to show emotions because of his past/childhood I don’t think it’s the case. I would not dismiss this so easily. Loving families and close families have problems too. A lot of patterns get established within the family unit and loving, close families do not make up for the humanness and limitations that show up in close quarters for so many years. For example, the youngest sibling could become the “class clown” because they are wanting / needing more attention. The oldest could have resentment towards the parents because they are watching their younger siblings get to do and have things they were not allowed to do or have. Parents could have been more strict and not allowed for a lot of emotion. Who knows! What I DO know is family shapes us and so they definitely have contributed to this pattern of his.
And also, he had a 4 year long distance relationship where I am sure he had feelings otherwise he wouldn’t have gone into this. Why he cannot develop for me? You are assuming quite a bit here. Just because he was with her for 4 years, DOES NOT mean it was a healthy relationship. It DOES NOT mean he had strong feelings for her. It DOES NOT mean that the relationship was good. DO NOT compare! You are a completely different experience for him. Who he was with her, is different than who he is with you – you and him are a completely different mixture and what is important is that you stay focused on YOU and him and not who he was with someone else.
Also, he was doing therapy and I raised these topics and issue you mentioned above, if he is an avoidant and all this and he said I don’t think so and we discussed it with my therapist. Therefore, if it was the case his therapist would have identified it right and make him work on it. Who knows! I don’t know what kind of therapist he is working with or whether they are any good or not and who knows if your guy is being fully honest. Either way, something is amiss here.
That is so terrible about his dad. I’m glad you sent a message. You are correct. This is not the time to discuss your situation with him. Most likely, he will not have much to offer anyone since he will be filled with grief for a while.
I know it hurts to hear this, but I would agree with his message. It does seem to be a sort of “ending” kind of statement by saying “you will always hold a special place in my heart.” It does sound like he is clear about his decision. I am so sorry! I know this breaks your heart and I know this is so confusing for you.
Right now, what I suggest is to keep giving him space. Maybe send him something in the mail – something to offer your condolences and then leave it at that.
Thoughts? Let’s keep talking.
Heidi
Hi Lori,
Thank you for your update!!
Wow! I love you’s were exchanged! Things are going deeper. It sounds like you are having some good discussions and you are clear about wanting to move forward with him. I’m glad to hear he is open to exploring getting some expert help. I hope he follows through!
You might be right, he might not be set up right to offer the kind of long term experience that I want, but maybe he is, and maybe you are wrong. I am not wrong. An active addict is NOT emotionally available. An addict who has never gotten help, nor asked for it, and doesn’t have any accountability is NOT emotionally available. So me saying he is not set up for a long term successful relationship is based on who he is TODAY, not his potential. It’s dangerous to believe and invest in potential when it comes to relationships. Who he is TODAY is someone who has a volcano within him that he keeps subdued with alcohol and locking away his feelings. With high enough stressors, he will ALWAYS choose his substance over you. If he does get help, it’s going to take quite a while to really get to the core of the feelings he is hiding from and develop a new skillet and as you know….it’s a super messy process, especially with addiction as part of the journey. That’s why they tell recovering addicts NOT to get involved romantically for at least a year. He has never done any deep work Lori, so IF he actually follows through with this, and he finds someone who will push him into the places he is avoiding, there are a lot of storms ahead.
I know it feels like I am against this relationship. I see some major red flags here that tell me this relationship is not a long term healthy, nourishing, deepening kind of thing like you are wanting. Again, I’m just going off of who you are and who he is TODAY and not what “could be.” However, I completely understand your choice. I absolutely understand why you would want to fight for this. He is treating you in ways you have always wanted and you are seeing him in ways he probably has never experienced before. There are a lot of wonderful things happening right now and that would give anyone hope for the future! I trust the process Lori. I absolutely 100% trust that whatever you decide, you are exactly where you are meant to be, to learn what you need to learn. As a dating expert, I of course want to wave my hands and try and stop people from making choices that would cause them harm AND I have also learned that no matter what someone chooses…there are no mistakes, only lessons and experiences to expand each person. So have it Lori! You are obviously meant to take a journey with this guy and I trust that!
Please keep sharing and asking questions. I will not wave my red flag anymore, as I’ve said enough. You are an intelligent woman and you will deal with whatever comes up in the moment. You got this no matter what!
Heidi
Lori!!! Oh my goodness, I didn’t see your message until just now. I’m not sure how that happened, but I’m so sorry it’s taken me such a long to respond!
Thank you for sharing all of your updates. It’s quite a mixed bag isn’t it? Some really powerful and wonderful things and some REALLY BIG red flags. Let’s talk about it!
and I’m not sure I even need to hear it said, I’m okay with knowing it based on his actions and his body language. I’m really wondering if he is the type of person that isn’t very good at even knowing how he feels. YES YES YES!!!! YOU NEED TO HEAR IT SAID!!! I guarantee if you give it long enough, his body language and actions will NOT be enough. A person needs to hear it too. We all need BOTH words and actions. I know right now it’s not that big of a deal, but that’s only because you are still so new to each other. Eventually, you will notice the absence of his words…if he continues to hold his feelings close to his heart.
And a few days later she texted him and he didn’t answer so she sent him a middle finger emoji. I’m wondering if he has set some boundaries with her. I don’t blame her for getting upset as he has shifted and he is letting her know that. Which kind of goes along with the pattern he has shown you that he is not very verbal or communicative about how he feels. So pay attention to this, because how he is treating her is how he will treat you as well if his feelings change at all.
Am I starting to fall in love with him? Probably. Am I holding myself back? Probably. Am I willing to wait a bit to see what transpires? Yes. Am I willing to take it day by day? Probably not. My brain constantly goes, thinking about the past and the future, so day by day is a very hard concept for me. Am I able to stop falling? Definitely not, not as long as I’m spending time with him and I see, without a doubt, signs that he’s falling for me too (and they are there). Do I expect it to be easy? Definitely not. Anything worth having isn’t easy to obtain. Am I getting stronger and seeing my value? Yes, I can feel that, and he helps with it, he supports me and makes me feel like I can do anything that I put my mind to. Okay, there’s a lot to say here, but what I am going to reflect back to you is this…I know you want to fall in love and finally have that experience of a deep, intimate love with a man. I will be very blunt and say that this guy is quite limited in how deep he will be able to go with you. So…as wonderful as he is in MANY ways, he also is emotionally unavailable on a deeper level. You guys get to have great conversations, you get to feel supported by him, and you get to feel those beautiful feelings of attraction and bonding with him. He offers a lot of great things that feel amazing. AND….where his limitations exist, you WILL hit a wall. You WILL hit a place that he will not open up to you. You WILL get to a point where you will want more and he just won’t have it to offer you. I only say this because he is not someone who asks for help, has ANYONE holding him accountable to how he shows up, he is an alcoholic, he is emotionally closed off and none of those are deal breakers EXCEPT he won’t ask for help. He won’t submit himself to someone who would be able to help him process the baggage he is carrying. He wants to believe that God will just heal all of it. Now I know you are seeing some changes in him and I love that. I’m not saying he can’t change. What I’m saying is….he has a certain capacity for changing and shifting, but there ALWAYS is a wall that we ALL come to that if we want to go deeper and become more expansive, it means facing our greatest fears.
He is asking YOU to help him get sober. He needs to be asking professionals and NOT put you in that role of caretaker. You are his girlfriend, NOT his sober coach. A REAL sober coach would ask him to face the feelings he has that would trigger his need to drink and escape what he is feeling. So instead of facing the baggage that is being activated that is motivating him to drink, he is asking YOU to help him stop drinking. It’s a valiant effort, but one that does NOT have any sustainability.
I am not saying at all, that you should not be with this guy. You are on a path and the choice is ALWAYS yours about what you would like to experience. My job is to help you stay grounded in reality about what is on the path you are choosing. This guy is NOT set up emotionally to offer the kind of long term, deep, nourishing, supportive, emotionally available experience that you want and he has already shown this to you in many different ways. I know you are falling for him, but know you are falling for a guy who has limitations that will keep your relationship and love much smaller than your personal capacity…which in turn will require YOU to stay smaller to fit into what he is able to offer.
I know this is not what you want to hear. Your heart wants this and I know he feels really good in a lot of ways. I know that no matter what you choose, you will learn from it. I just don’t want to see you negotiate away your standards and the kind of love you truly want to experience, because he feels good to you right now. That is your wounding bonding to him, not your higher self.
Thoughts on this?
Heidi
Oh Amber! This is such a heartbreaking story. I am so so sorry you are having to go through this and I am so sad that he is choosing this toxic connection over a healthy, nourishing, and loving connection with you. It doesn’t make any sense does it?
I know this will be really hard to wrap your head around, but I’ll see if I can explain it in a way that will make sense. And even if it does make sense to you, it will not change the pain of the loss and your heartbreak.
As wonderful as your connection was, I am wondering how honest he was with you. It sounds like he has some pretty strong co-dependent tendencies and usually people like that are not very honest with their truest feelings – they typically are very agreeable and exist for the other person’s needs and rarely express their own.
I’m just making an educated guess here, so I could be completely wrong. Co-dependence is “meeting the needs of others at the expense of yourself” and narcissism is “meeting the needs of yourself at the expense of others.” Now both qualities are not “bad” inherently. They only become toxic when they are out of balance and both qualities exist on a spectrum. It sounds like his ex wife has strong narcissistic tendencies and he has strong co-dependent tendencies – that is actually a very common type of match because the narcissist expects to be served and the co-dependent lives their life to serve. The co-dependent – depending on how strong their tendencies are – has no clue who they are. They don’t know their own needs, they are constantly peace keepers, they agree with everything that other people say, they are very easy to get along with and people who are more narcissistic will LOVE that because they get to have their way all the time. They get to be the most important person in the room all the time.
So being that he is choosing his “family” over his happiness and well-being and even going back to someone who is critical, mean, and probably quite verbally abusive, that just tells me he has a lot of low self-esteem and being in that type of environment is what is most familiar and comfortable for him. Usually people who choose this type of design, grew up in the same type of environment. Even though he was with you for a while and experienced something different, it probably was quite uncomfortable for him (being a co-dependent, he never would have told you – IF he was aware of this). Here is why:
There is this thing called the “upper limit.” It’s the limit in which we each allow ourselves to be happy and feel good in our lives. What determines this limit is how much baggage we carry. So imagine a big bathtub that represents the capacity of happiness. When that bathtub gets full and is about to start overflowing, a person will usually sabotage their happiness, so some of the water drains out and doesn’t overflow. As long as that water stays at an appropriate level, there is no need for sabotaging. I know this sounds strange, but it’s a protective mechanism. For example, if you grew up experiencing a ton of abandonment and so you paired “love” with “abandonment,” then when you are older and start to date and fall in love, your system will start to feel threatened because that “love” is paired with pain. And that pairing lives deep in the subconscious and most people are not even aware of it. It’s so subtle! So every time you start to feel closer to man, and start to feel a deeper connection, you might pick a fight. You might start to feel less attracted to him. You might start to see the things that are “wrong” and magnify them and make them soooo big, that you need to break up. Your system is protecting you from further pain. We ALL have an upper limit. The only way to increase the size of our “bathtub” so we can hold more water, is to connect with the baggage, the pain, the stories we have around love, and to heal them. It’s not an easy road and expanding our upper limit is 100% uncomfortable….until we get to the other side of that pain.
So whatever is happening with your guy, has NOTHING to do with you. It has to do with the baggage he is carrying inside. There was a study done on elephants where they were chained up since birth. Eventually, they took the chains off, but the elephant never went outside the radius that those chains allowed. It’s a program and the same thing happens to us. Even though he got to experience great connection with you, his ex got BIG enough and caused enough harm that it activated his internal program to be the peace keeper at the expense of his well-being…no doubt something that was established by his parent/s. Did he grow up with alcoholics? Or narcissists? Or critical parents?
This is a tough one Amber, because as much as I would like to tell you how to get him back, it would not change what is happening inside of him. It would not change that his ex would get big enough again (because she knows it works) and he would go back. He is NOT set up internally to be happy. He can be happy for a period of time, but if enough starts to go wrong or if enough BIG negative energy comes at him, he will cower and become the peace keeper and do whatever is necessary to make that person/s calm down.
Here’s the thing Amber….even if you did get him back, he has broken trust. He is choosing misery with her instead of fighting for his own happiness with you. As wonderful as he is, this is a pretty big and serious quality that ruins relationships. Can it be changed? Of course…but it would take A LOT of work. He would need to work with someone who is skilled and can hold him accountable to setting boundaries, using his voice, and someone who knows how to work with this type of internal programming. It is not something that is a simple behavioral change. It is something that is deeply rooted in him and facing it is incredibly scary. Maybe he would be willing to do something like that. Although, as long as his choice is to be with his ex – he won’t get help because she has him chained up and will only let him get so far and he agrees to that.
He isn’t contacting you because it’s too painful. It’s too confusing, it’s too dangerous, and it shakes up the stability he needs to feel to maintain this very painful choice he has made. I have no doubt he is miserable. However, the good thing about that is, the misery will only grow and get worse and the beauty is that pain is a GREAT motivator. He may break at some point and not be able to handle the pain anymore and actually do something about it. He may want to come back to you, but just a warning, that will NOT fix anything. It will give him a reprieve, but it will NOT change the strong internal program that is running in his veins and eventually, he will sabotage his happiness again.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense. I’m sad to say that this is far from a simple fix. It’s quite complicated to understand and it definitely has nothing to do with you.
Does this make sense at all??
Heidi
