[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

I absolutely will be reaching out to the coach in my own time.

I also wanted to thank you for your insights and suggestions. I feel that I need a little time to sit and reflect on what has happened as well as my own perceptions and desires in relation to the reality that you perceive.
I will be doing the shadow work….but I do maintain that hope/optimism/idealism (even if not grounded) is like the sun, if you only believe in it when you see it, then you will never make it through the night.

Have a pleasant rest of your day,

Natasha

[Natasha V]

Good Afternoon,

I do want to break the cycle and step out of the shadows. But I am not sure how to clear away the past. Eventually there is some acceptance that an acquaintance has grown away and I no longer feel the sting of their loss when thinking about them. I will focus on how they made me feel, accepted and warm, in the specific memory. With regards to my father, I have accepted that we will never be close and I often choose to focus on gratitude during our all too brief and infrequent get togethers. I do not beg for his attention or affection anymore. Deep down I do know that he will always be there if I am in desperate need, how could he not be?

Is my fear of abandonment selfish? I suppose I have been selfish with regards to Ryan and not accepting the reality of the situation – he doesn’t want me in any capacity, using the term friend to suggest a goodbye. Something I did not understand for, in my mind, friends forgive and reconcile easily. I never was one for him and I didn’t understand. I suppose he must view me as a selfish needy bitch. I hate that he will not remember me for the kind and compassionate person I really am but as an anecdote now. But I shouldn’t dwell on this. I should be grateful for this lesson. I will try very hard to let him go. Compassion is unconditional love.

My sister made a very good point the other day – she said that while I am afraid of being abandoned, she is fearful of not being appreciated. She suggested that I have a wonderful heart; I let others into my life with authenticity and enthusiasm, showing them tremendous kindness and making them feel so cherished. But she feels that she tends to be so much more discerning, revealing very little until someone proves themselves to her. I suppose there is a difference between feeling abandoned and under appreciated, but at the same time, aren’t they two sides of the same coin?

I do want to thank you for forwarding me the information for your coach. It is very much appreciated!

Have a lovely afternoon,

Natasha

[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

You are most certainly not overwhelming me with your insights and questions. The dynamic is complex and intertwined, this I do see.

I absolutely needed the therapeutic cry! I always feel rejuvenated and refreshed. Not that the worries and fears disappear, but I feel stronger and more capable of handling them.

You are right – I do tend to people please out of co-dependency. As a child I never wanted to see my mother angry. She has a nasty temper and, in looking back, her outbursts likely stemmed from her own insecurity. There were times that she would make me feel guilty for certain things, especially when it came to my father’s side the family, who she felt were snobs and never really opened their arms to her. She was always a bit upset when I enjoyed spending time with them or tried to emulate my aunt, who I thought was really cool. I didn’t want to see her hurt and, in many ways, I feel that I started to seek constant validation from her. I the people pleasing became very much a coping mechanism during my parents’ divorce. The divorce was nasty and tore the family apart. It has been over 10 years now since I discovered my father was having an affair and I still have no contact with my father’s side of the family. To compound matters, my mother and her sisters have been bickering over an inheritance from their own parents who passed during the divorce. Her side of the family is divided as well and I have little contact with them too. I think that these two life events, the passing of my grandparents and the ramifications of my father’s infidelity, traumatized me greatly. There was no need for contact between myself (my sister included) and our extended family when we truly had nothing to do with our parents’ decisions. We were tossed aside like garbage all the same. I am very afraid of being abandoned and forgotten. I now have a tendency to become very upset when people leave my life. Everyone’s life path is different and friends grow apart, I know that this is natural. But I feel so betrayed when a person, whom I shared my story with or showed tremendous kindness to, decides to leave me behind. I take it personally.

And Ryan was someone who I shared so much with. I felt that he understood me. There was a sense of trauma bonding there on his end too. He was previously engaged. He never shared with me the reasons for ending the engagement. But I saw that he was still wounded and I sensed that there was a sense of inferiority stemming from this. I think that I may have further wounded him when I initially suggested we remain friends because we worked together. I often wonder if this initial insult was never forgiven and is always in the back of his mind. Deep down I know that he isn’t the same man who was dazzled by me last year. He has had many women in the interim and has more confidence to the play the field, even if it is a selfish game for his own boost in ego and without a desire for commitment. But you are right, it is this trauma bond that keeps me so invested in Ryan. I want to help him learn to trust and to be vulnerable again. There was this need to prove him wrong – I am different than all the other women who may have used him. Invariably, I’d feel needed and valued by someone else that isn’t my mother or sister. I know this isn’t my job. I want to honor his request for space. I just feel so betrayed by the timing of the request and fearful of being a failure, abandoned again my someone that I really came to care for. I am having a hard time reconciling between these feelings. I know that if you care enough about someone, you should let them go….but I do not want to regret letting him go either because what if …

Deep down there is a loneliness. I try very much to fill this with activity. I put all my heart into my work. I do take myself out on dates. I fill my time and I reach out to my fiends, mother and sister for when I want to really talk and have a good laugh. I try to romanticize my life….but at the same time, there is this desire to know what romancing my life would look like with a lover at my side. I have never experienced this, not once. Sometimes, I wonder if this is just base desire and need, if you know what I mean. I have my hobbies but want the occasional thrill of being chased and romanced. I do not feel that I betrayed my sense of self by even considering a causal relationship, but I would need to be treated with respect and not like a whore. ((Maybe I even misunderstand the concept of causal relationship today. Maybe that just means booty call and I am believing that it simply means without the deeper intimacy of being included in family and friend get togethers.)) And I was so close and feel that there is something missing in the dialogue between Ryan and myself. Something left unsaid or misunderstood and it bothers me. I want to understand the male psyche so that I know the right things to say and do.

But that is just it — I do not inherently believe that I am meant for love. I wouldn’t be a 30 year old whose only ever been kissed once if it was in my cards. I know that you are going to say that I need to actually try. But I do not like the apps! I refuse to use one again! But people meet organically all the time. I met Ryan at work. You ask me if I exude my version of the femme fatale in my professional life….I feel over all that I am confident in my skills and yet never afraid to ask the advice of an attending or accept the opinion of a fellow team member including the nurses. I dress well. I carry myself with poise. I do not get flustered easily. I am warm and approachable with my patients. I even bring this energy to the little functions I attend. I am not afraid to strike up a conversation with a stranger. But no one ever bites. I assume there is something I do wrong! Hence, my aforementioned comment – how can I understand the male psyche if I cannot even understand Ryan and his motivations?

Regarding my sister, I have asked her that very question. She gets angry with me all the time when I disparage myself or feel defeated. She feels that is a negative reflection on her, like you said, we have the same base program. She tells me that she is always herself around men and will never compromise on her values/morals. She also told me that she doesn’t have time to worry about whether or not her current boyfriend will be in her life a year from now, for example. She isn’t lonely nor craving to know the mystery of what it feels like to be with a man as she has experienced this already. She has an aura that I do not and it cannot be defined.

I am not entirely sure that I answered all your questions or even to the best of my ability. It is not easy to really have clear insight into one’s one mind and motivators.

Enjoy the rest of your weekend

Natasha

[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

I had a really therapeutic cry last night while writing you and reflecting on all that has transpired this past year, my worries and insecurities. I do truly feel ready to face my inner demons and become a more emotionally intelligent / intuitive person. While, I liked my previous therapist, I am not sure that she was the right fit with regards to reconciling my patterns and defense mechanisms preventing me from making lasting meaningful interpersonal connections. I would very much appreciate the opportunity to meet with your coach. Thank you so very much!

Manipulation – It is such a cruel word with evil connotations. But you are right. I am very much guilty of being rather manipulative too, especially with regards to my people pleasing tendencies. I want to be liked and accepted. I never want to see someone else hurt, and especially hurt by something I have done. And then I place myself in an even greater pickle by trying to smooth over the hurt and not giving the other person space. I want to comfort and soothe. I want immediate reconciliation. I tell myself that it is absolution for the other, but in reality I do this out of selfishness because I am afraid of being abandoned and forgotten.

I can cycle back to the incident that brought me to this forum in the first place….there was no reason for me to send an elaborate apology to the man in question two days ago. But I am now afraid that I have caused this person harm in my desperation to find a deeper meaning to what transpired and why I was being suddenly pushed away:

I saw a confused man that evening – one who informed me that he was not ready for a relationship, even a casual one, but who then made sexual overtures, asking me to watch him climax; a man who let me touch him but didn’t want a kiss; a man who suggested that sex meant giving a piece of yourself to the other, engages in a mutual masturbation over text and then pushes me away, stating that he pushed a boundary and must find himself alone; but more importantly engages in sexual overtures and then calls me friend; calls me friend but then without intention to really support me in a friendship founded on communication and get togethers; says he is not ready for friend with benefit (not that I am satisfied with this notion, but if it meant spending time with him and helping him to find himself/grow through shared adventures and outings, then I would have tried) but admits to sleeping with other women in the dating circles.

I tried to console this man believing he felt guilty about his actions and indecision, I tried to reassure him that he wasn’t alone in his lust, all the while trying to play the understanding friend wanting him to honor his truth and temper down my own feelings of betrayal until I exploded. I called him, I went to his apartment and demanded entry so that I could inquire as to whether he really did intend to toss me aside even in a friend capacity. I hurt, feel so dirty and used, yet, all I can think about is how I tried to pressure this person to reveal their private thoughts and emotions to me and invaded their privacy and trust. He invited me to his apartment; trusted me enough to see the inner sanctum just for me to show up like a stalker unannounced. Of course, on the phone that evening he seemed perturbed but not angry. He reiterated his stance. He asked me not to worry or agonize. He was firm. But he was also unsympathetic.

Why should I feel so guilty for wanting to know if he ever really cared for me or could see me as a potential partner? Why does this feel like a real goodbye and one that I cannot prevent? Why am I so afraid that if I try to reach out to him that it will be met with silence? Why do I feel that this is all my fault and why did I throw myself on the sword by taking all the blame in my letter to him?

I want to know how to fix this ugly situation? I want for this man to send me a response to the letter (which is copied in one of the other posts) and tell me why he keeps me at arms length. I know that will never happen – I’d love to be able to use one of these tips and tricks from the website to try to trigger an honest response from him — but now is not the right time and I wonder if there ever will be the right time.

Femme Fatale — for me this is a woman who exudes confidence and has a aura about her, a strong firm presence but yet has grace and elegance. Her aloofness should be transparently false hiding a soft approachable, yet not debilitating vulnerability.

Spinsterhood – The truth is this: I am a spinster. My fear is always being one. Yes, I do want to know what it feels like to be ravaged and consumed by passion. I imagine that a woman truly feels like a wild goddess in the arms of a man. But I do not necessarily need the company of a man to feel like a woman. In fact, I felt more like a woman sexting Ryan during office hours (which was a thrill to feel so aroused but yet composed enough to see patients) and getting ready for the get together (debating to wear the knit sweater that put my back on display and whether to wear red or black heels to complement the long pleated skirt) than I did watching his little display of self pleasure. But at the same time, feeling feminine is a mind set that I tap into by simply engaging in little rituals – taking a nice bath, enjoying a glass of wine with dinner or while cooking, dancing in the kitchen, wearing nice lingerie and French perfume just because it makes me feel sexy. I just don’t know why my sense of femininity or feeling sexy and alluring gets lost in translation when I am out for an evening.

My Sister – Yes, I know that we both are on our own journeys. I do not begrudge her – in fact, I really want her to find her happiness. I want to see this relationship stand the test of time. I am so very eager to meet her boyfriend. And I admire how detached she is from the outcome — she enjoys every text, phone call, dinner date, movie date and stroll. She lives in the moment. It must be so freeing.

Thanks so much for your insight and kind words of affirmation. Your message above was very thoughtful

Hope to hear from you soon

Natasha

[Natasha V]

Good Evening,

1. The Puzzle – I was simply playing devil advocate, trying to relate to the many clients who are desperately seeking validation and acceptance from another person. I am not so cruel as to want to manipulate another person into desiring me. You cannot take away someone’s free will and you wouldn’t want a partner to resent you for entrapping them, for that would lead to more hurt and guilt. I understand that I am not everyone’s cup of tea. In fact, I am very used to this and to rejection. I have had very limited success in the relationship department and have not been able to find that person so enamored with me and the connection that they desire to dance the dance of life. I have had many first dates and most app connections never leave the virtual realm. I have had many fair weather friends. My parents’s divorce was so cruel and my family so severely divided. Maybe my sense of self worth as been so severely diminished by this divorce that most people sense a wounded bird and stay away….it is so hard to say especially when I have had paradoxical success in my career – patients who want to continue to see me as a primary care clinician and office staff who enjoy working with me. I even have a number of good friends who I see regularly and value deeply. Sometimes I wonder when the other shoe will drop – but I understand that friends are not always meant to be lifelong. Circumstances change, life paths diverge. It is natural.
But men have been elusive. I recognize that men find me attractive – I’ve been catcalled, sensed the awkwardness in the demeanor of a young man during an exam, and have been flattered by elderly gentleman – but none truly desire me for me. I thought that Ryan did until he chose the secretary. I did find it easy to be with him, until he pulled away without answer. I wish there was a formula, but I know that everyone is unique- shaped by their experience, by those who nurtured them, and by their own special proclivities. I want to be a femme fatale, sexy and alluring, but at the end of the day that isn’t me. I care so deeply and have a big heart that I want to share. At times I have wondered if there is a biological component to attraction and that I miss a key pheromone.

2. The formula — this in someways relates to point number one….every relationship is different. What binds one couple will divide another. I wish that I can say that I have not been fooled. If you took a look at my sad and pathetic story outlined above, the latest epic failure and humiliation, you may see how foolish I really am. Sometimes I think that the money spent on a therapist last year was a real waste….do not misunderstand, she did a lovely job of trying to break me out of my comfort zone – to get me off the couch and out of the pages of books and the allure of television where my favorite characters never fail to disappoint me. She has convinced me to ride horses, pick up ballroom dance, and never say no to a social invite with co-workers or friends. She taught me the power of saying no to what doesn’t serve me, but at the end of the day that power has only been applied to professional endeavors and with the three friends who I have allowed into my inner sanctum and trust implicitly. I am by nature a people pleaser and I have often wondered if it stems from an overbearing mother, German grandparents with harsh standards, and the pressures of being a big sister – one so adored and looked up to. Sometimes I wonder how someone so well traveled, who lived a year abroad and speaks three languages (albeit with varied proficiency). and highly educated can be so afraid of men and give them the power over my own psyche? In reality I am truly afraid of the man above. I should have been more assertive of my own needs and wants, especially after this last sexual tryst. But I am afraid of his ire; he was so cruel and utterly dismissive of me during a fight last year – one that even invaded professional boundaries and subverted the established hierarchy – that I have been so subservient and even willing to grovel. I have wondered if I imagine my draw to him because I fear spinsterhood. Do not get me wrong, I like my life. I have a lovely apartment, the freedom to enjoy my hobbies, and family/friends who care about me. But I want a romance, like in the movies, and it just seems that I am lacking something intrinsic no matter the friendly smile, stylish clothes and cultivated interests. I am not enough. Maybe it is simply because I am lonely….I come home to no one. I am fulfilled by the companionship of my co-workers and sustained by my patients but I have no one to share the evening with. I have fun by myself -I treat myself to a movie, art exhibitions, and dance in the kitchen all the time….but it stings to play third wheel with my friends.

3. The heart to heart — I agree that you have to love and respect yourself. You have to honor your boundaries. But isn’t nice to know that someone else respects your uniqueness too?

4. My journey — I feel that I have touched on my own insecurities a bit in the prior numbered paragraphs. I have been hurt so many times and am fearful of putting myself out there, as the kids say today…. I know that I am seemingly great on paper and I know what I deserve .. I am scared that no one else sees it.

I would never admit this, but I am so envious of my sister. She is so confident in herself and has such easy charisma. She doesn’t fear that her boyfriend will one day leave her. He treats her so well and with such respect and adoration. I do not know what she does differently than me…

I do not know how to answer your question … I feel empowered in may aspects of my life, especially professionally. But maybe that is my purpose in this life and I have to accept and be fulfilled with that gift of giving.

Either way, you have given me a great deal to think about…..I do appreciate your insight (and that of Spyce too)

[Natasha V]

Hello Heidi

Thanks so very much for your insightful response to my query! I am even more delighted that you liked the question.

I am not entirely surprised that many of your clients are unwilling to let go. To be honest, there is a deep part of me that also wonders if I should continue to fight for my connection as well. I do feel that it is very possible that most of us reach out in wonder if there is something we are missing. We are looking for the missing piece of the puzzle or the magic key to unlock the heart of “our person.” We are looking for sound advice on what to do next without mucking it up.

I think there is a perception that we need a tutorial on how to use the tips and tricks on this forum/website and that there must be a basic one size fits all formula that can be adapted if we just knew how.

I also found your “sneaky drug” analogy really fitting. I resonate with your story of the bad boy and the addictive nature of the chase….it is entertaining and mentally stimulating to try to psycho-analyze the “runner” and then try to capture their attention using those insights. In many ways it is a very sick and manipulative game. I played it too and was always dreadfully heartbroken when suddenly starved from attention or kept at arms length, seemingly strung along. There is a determination to finally win – to have the final say too. But sometimes it also boils down to the desire to have the other person give you the respect of an honest heart to heart.

I am sure that Spyce will likely agree with you that your role is to empower the client to become more emotionally intelligent and discerning.

And I do look forward in undertaking that journey myself.

Thank you!

[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

I am sorry for the double message. I do not want to necessarily overwhelm you with posts or use the platform as a diary of sorts – but this question occurred to me on my way to work this morning. What would you say to someone who was so very fixated on winning over this man above and was very determined despite your misgivings as a relationship counselor? What would be your next steps?

Just to clarify, I am not – I am ready to acknowledge this humiliation as a learning moment, but was simply curious as to how you would approach that particular scenario as I am sure there are women/men you have counseled who are not willing to accept their loss.

With care!

[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

I did feel very guilty this morning for my bold and impulsive behavior and sent the following –

“I am so very sorry for invading your inner sanctum yesterday evening. It was tremendously unfair to you. It was unforgivable and despicable. In fact, none of what I have done this past week has been fair to you and I was having a hard time accepting that I betrayed myself in lusting after a friend and not really accepting the reality of the situation – you will never see me the way you did before, when we first met, a someone to dance the dance of life and share in adventures together. I have wanted to rekindle that feeling for a long time and need to accept that the moment has passed and was lovely for a minute. I really wanted your attention and time. I felt relegated to the occasional pen pal, never good enough for simply an hour of coffee and chat in person. And, undoubtedly when sex was on the table, you gave me the attention I was craving and I thought, ah ha, you always desired me but was maybe afraid to rekindle the promise of our first meeting and that was why I was kept at an arms length when you so readily spend time with other friends and even co-workers. I gravely misunderstood your intentions. I was naive. I was inarticulate. I was wanton. I wanted to find deeper meaning behind the evening we shared. I invaded your privacy, which was unforgivable. I fell from grace without dignity that a seemingly sophisticated woman like myself should have. I am so very sorry! And I hope that you can find it in your heart to forgive the foolishness of this lonely woman in your own time. I hope this isn’t goodbye for forever and we can reconcile with a pint and pizza in the future…”

He likely does not deserve this letter of mine. It likely is really overkill when there seems that there is nothing more to say. But at the end of the day – I came off as being a bit nuts, I needed absolution for my own guilt, and he needed to know why this incident was not just a casual meaningless tryst for me at the end of the day. He hasn’t even bothered to ask how I feel. And how betrayed I felt; worried over the well being of a confused aroused man, waring between body and conscience, simply to find that the sexual acts he wanted were just that – sex and meaningless to him. He needed to understand that he is not a little boy who can hide behind the narrative that we were two friends caught up in an amorous situation when this was all premeditated and poorly executed on his behalf. For a 28 year old nurse who was previously engaged, he should be more compassionate and communicative.

I do greatly appreciate you being so kind as to call me “beautifully assertive.” That was a very kind way to spin the events of yesterday evening.

Yes – I admit this man is very immature. I knew this from the first date. But his boyish charm was endearing and he seemed so very open minded, wanting to travel and indulge in new experiences. He was willing to purchase an EMF meter to go ghost hunting with me at one point in time, for example. He understood my humor and was quick to employ witty banter. We had many of the same interests. He initially seemed open to discussing fears and insecurities and to the idea we could discover ourselves, learning and growing together.

But I also want to say that deep down I felt that I had the upper hand in this possible relationship. I wasn’t so smitten. I was more highly educated. I felt that he wouldn’t so readily hurt me because maybe he felt so lucky that a girl like me would choose him. He is not the uber-attractive man the original post suggested him to be. He was simply cute, a big kid. I now know the wicked gleam in the eye and how this nerdy cute demeanor is front…but I didn’t know this at the time. I do also have to admit that I was so flattered by his seemingly boyish crush. I have been told many times that I am rather attractive and have a very bright smile but I have always felt that this never was to my advantage. I know that men must look but most never approach me. I am always the girl at the bar passed over for her friend. I have tried to use dating apps and never had much success. Most conversations fizzle before even a first date. This boy seemed to see me for me! He stroked my ego. And I feel that my ego couldn’t handle being passed over after being treated like a princess and being so honest about why I was scared initially to pursue a relationship (fear of being hurt and rejected for my inexperience, fear of the negative impact on work dynamics, distrust due to my parents’ divorce that divided a family and friends so cruelly). He never gave me an honest answer as to why he felt he couldn’t pursue a relationship after I suggested we try again — “I am not ready and need to focus on myself.” And I accepted this until the secretary came along. I wondered what had I really done wrong when he had worked so hard to win me back over. It is the same wonder and worry of doing wrong I feel when I try a dating app and I get ghosted or never asked out to meet in person?

I am not sure what you mean when you say relate to men socially?

To answer your questions – I live in the USA, born outside of Baltimore, MD, and now reside in Roanoke, VA. I wouldn’t say that I have a warped sense of intimate friendship – I have a few very close friends who I feel that I can confide in and who come to me to discuss their problems and worries. I consider this group of women to be my rock here in Roanoke as my family still lives in Baltimore. I believe that a good friendship is one built on trust, honesty and commitment. I would give them the shirt off my back without asking for anything in return and knowing that they would do the same. I wanted to invite this man in question into my inner sanctum as well. I wanted to go out for a drink, day trip/hike, movie, ect like I do with my other friends. I wanted him to teach me to golf and be my tennis partner once in awhile. I didn’t feel that this was outside the norm…..

And yes – I do want to work on my confidence, ability to meet and entice a man, keep a man enthralled, and play a fair game of courtship

Thanks!

[Natasha V]

Well, I did a very stupid thing this evening. I was reflecting on all that I had written and your response. I really thought about what you said, I was a conquest and now deemed “friend”. Well, what does friend mean? Friends do not engage in sexting or mutual masturbation. And yes, it may be true that two friends may give into an evening of passion, but that is usually spur of the moment and not really planned. I feel that either the friendship ends or the two decide that they can continue on platonically but then do something together or with a group to simply wipe away the memory of a mistake. You know, think of the show “Friends” – Ross and Rachel, Chandler and Monica, ect. This guy was going to simply write me off as “friend” and then shut me out….contact me when he so desired an ego boost and not treat me as a valued member of his circle. I would have sat wondering where I really stood – was this “space” because he was afraid of intimacy or was this “space” his way of keeping me in the pocket and continue this cycle of my chase, his validation and the promise of next time I would be more bold. Just as I outlined above.

I needed to know what “friend” meant. So, I showed up at his apartment. I called asking to be let in – he informed me that he couldn’t talk because he was online with his other friends. I didn’t care, I was angry. I told him that I needed to know where we stood. He blunting informed me that he felt we were done talking about this – we were friends, nothing more, it was a moment, it is over, he stopped because it didn’t feel right, I cannot just show up at his door and he cannot talk to me every day when the matter was settled. I told him that the matter wasn’t settled for me – he needs to look at this from my perspective. I called initially because I was worried about his well being and now I am left wondering what it all meant. I told him that I gave him my heart and soul and I needed to know if he saw me as an option who now failed some test or whether he really did feel something and now this “space” was a knee jerk reaction. His response was finite – “no, I only see you as a friend. This happens between friends sometimes. And I couldn’t go through with it because I knew precisely that this (meaning me asking for validation and meaning) would happen.” Well, I was so flustered by my stupidity and neediness that I apologized for showing up unannounced and swore this wouldn’t happen again, as he knows that I am usually much more reserved, thoughtful and articulate. I informed him that I simply needed to know, this was a spur of the moment drive by, I was agonizing about the possibilities and ramifications and that I will leave him alone now. I also added that I would totally understand if he never wanted to see me ever again after this display of immaturity. He did say that he really did not want me to worry anymore; that there was nothing to worry about. I asked that he wipe this moment from his memory and there be a clean slate, to which he replied it already was but he will do it again. I ended the conversation abruptly with a simple tell your friends that you spoke to a crazy bird and well, if you ever need to vent and want a beer let me know”…..Gosh – how fucking dumb!

I feel somewhat validated – no more ambiguity. I guess I did mean nothing after all to him and yet, there is a sense of sadness that he is now going to be left with this lasting impression of me as a crazy jilted needy stalker and not the sophisticated, intelligent and caring person that I’d like to be remembered as. I really fucked this up and didn’t fall from grace with any dignity.

I figured that this pathetic incident may inform your insights and observations.

But I really do not think there is anything left to say or do. I do not think I can save face now at all …. I cannot reach out anymore after this humiliation in an effort to prove that I really understand and am not a lunatic; and he will never contact me again for fear that I will misread the room as I so gravely have done. It is done! It is over! And now I lick my wounds….pathetic! I am totally pathetic!!

[Natasha V]

^ so close to crossing his boundary and then retreat with indecision. Wouldn’t a player have taken advantage?

[Natasha V]

Good Morning,

Thank you so very much for your response and for reading my very long letter. I so greatly appreciate your candor and forwardness. I am not offended and am of the opinion that tough love can be therapeutic. Many of your observations are valid.

I had not really informed anyone of what exactly happened this past Friday. In many ways I am so very ashamed of myself and you are very correct in your assessment – I have disrespected myself and I did very much behave the wanton.

You ask me about my virginity. Well, the answer is simple, I am not necessarily saving myself for marriage and am open to premarital sex. I just have never been involved with anyone that I’d want to share this gift with. To be honest, I’ve never been in a serious committed relationship before. School was always a priority for me and then establishing myself in my career took precedence. I also suppose that I have always been wary of men, fearing that I’d be hurt or betrayed. This likely stems from my parents’ divorce, a nasty affair and owing to my father’s infidelity. I was 17 at the time and discovered the affair.
My virginity has also been somewhat a source of insecurity when it shouldn’t be. There was a prior suitor who rejected me simply because I was a virgin. But I have always been fearful since then that men would view my virginity, intact at the tender age of 30, as a red flag – a sign that I was defective. This was something I feared from this man in question, especially after revealing last year that I was interested in pursuing a relationship but would want to start slow. Now, he didn’t seem to be bothered that I was inexperienced but it was after this reveal that he started to pull away. I figured that intimacy and physical touch was very important for him in a relationship and that if it was on the table he may see me again as a potential partner.

You are right in assuming that I want to be romanced and wouldn’t really be comfortable with casual sex type arrangement. But this man did make me want and desire him. His experience was alluring and the sexting was thrilling. I think I was totally overstimulated and so desiring for release.

Here is a devil advocate view of this man:

I should note that during this conversation about rekindling a relationship last year he expressed a bit of apprehension in becoming close to someone again. He informed me that he had just broken off his engagement 6-12 months prior. He didn’t want to talk about the engagement or what had transpired and naturally I didn’t press. He said that he was going to be more discerning of the women he committed to moving forward and slow was just fine. That was very reassuring to me at the time and I wasn’t expecting the pull back a few weeks later. Nor was I then expecting him to seek out a colleague of mine with a tremendous amount of baggage of her own.

Our initial meet cute in office was just as it sounds. A meet cute. He was so very bashful and pleasant. Eager to learn and excited about being a nurse. He made me feel so special, hanging on my every word and wanting to help me with any task I needed. The evening we were set up, this was at a work function/dinner, he looked so forlorn and was instantly smitten when I called him over to sit with me. He clung to every word and sat there blushing. He was a complete gentleman, asking if I made it home safely and checking in on me the next day as I left a little tipsy. He was a total gentleman on the first date as well. In fact, some of his initial attempts at physical touch weren’t what I’d call James Bond smooth. He blushed beet red at just a platonic kiss on the cheek goodbye. He acted the youthful boy with a school crush. And maybe his excitement that a woman like me would fancy him made him bold enough to inquire about how I like my men groomed and profess he was going to shave for me in preparation for the second date. He suddenly seemed to immature for me. I had always envisioned myself with a lady’s man who pursued me relentlessly and broke through all my defenses like in the movies. But then, again, my TV Crushes varied from youthful big kids at heart to Han Solo rogues and then to sophisticated spies.

Some of our colleagues knew his family; we live in a small town/city. He came from a very respectable home and those who set us up had informed me of what an upstanding young man he was. They actually felt rather protective of him after I initially ended the relationship before it even really began.

But he continued to be the gentleman when our paths crossed with that hint of boyish crush. It was endearing! Naturally I had accepted that he changed his mind and didn’t want a relationship but wanted to continue to speak to me as a close friend.

But he still didn’t want to see me outside of work. It bothered me. Why was I relegated to pen pal? And he would write me daily.

Why was I good enough for the daily correspondence but nothing more? All I wanted was for him to treat me like a real friend – see me for an occasional coffee, go to a movie, talk on the phone –

Then he started seeing the secretary. The boyish charm had faded a bit. I was bereft and felt jilted, like I wasn’t good enough to be in a relationship but she was. I felt he lied to me. My ego was blown and what I did next was shameful.

So the green monster of jealousy came out. I dressed to impress at work and I flirted a bit. I was suddenly driven to compete with this other woman. And I lost. We had a big fight after work the day I pulled rank. He informed me that the flirting needed to stop. That I was only ever a friend and misunderstood his affections and intentions. He listened to me as I outlined my insecurities and perceptions. He said he forgave me and that all was water under the bridge. We shook hands. He was warm and friendly for a time at work but then started to ignore me completely. Wouldn’t even speak to me about patient matters and routinely questioned my professional judgement and patient care. It was apparent to our colleagues that he played me against the other woman. Rumors were rampant as to what happened. And most rumors were focused on how these two were fucking due to the PDA on display during office hours. It hurt me so deeply. But he wanted to be my friend- so why was he treating me like a discarded option? What had I suddenly done or said? I felt so bad about how I had behaved and was determined to prove that I could be a platonic friend. I just wanted validation that all was well, that I didn’t hurt him as a man and colleague. This was why I reached out so many times over the summer.

And this was why I was so shocked and easily taken in by him when he suddenly started to show me attention this past Thanksgiving. I thought the page was finally turned. All I wanted was to see him in person and catch up like true friends. The texting is nice, mentally stimulating for me as I try to keep his attention rapt. When the conversation became sexual I thought I had a chance at a do over from before.

He has expressed his apologies that he cannot offer me more, physically or otherwise, during his conversation with me this weekend. He wasn’t so heartless as to not offer me his apologies and acknowledge my hurt. And he didn’t take advantage of a girl, out of her element and swept away by lustful emotions that evening either. He kept saying that he was confused over and over again in between vulgar banter and repeatedly asked for reassurance that I was ok with what had transpired, had fun and understood that we need to leave it there for now. He said this over and over. He said he knew I was trying to honor his boundaries but that he was in such need. He kept reiterating that he has never been in a friend with benefit relationship. This was new for him. He expressed that sleeping with me would mean giving a piece of ourselves away. Would a player have really cared that much when I was standing in a state of undress and informed him that what I wanted was to be surprised when asked what he should do next as he was so close to crossing his own boundary?

I don’t know – maybe you are right. Only a player. but then I think to myself- this is a man who has been wronged twice, once by his fiancé and once by this secretary. I wonder if he is a wounded pup afraid of letting another woman into his world for fear of being hurt? Maybe he is very confused about what he feels for me? Maybe he is intimidated?

I look forward to your insight and thoughts

With care

[Natasha V]

I did want to clarify something about the aforementioned post with special regards to the shared evening this past Friday. It may be prudent to state that he felt that the sexting was a form of fun and stress relief. He had asked me what I really wanted from him that evening prior to revealing that he felt betrayed by the women he had been talking to and seeing on the dating apps. Of course, I had said everything I needed to over text and really wanted him to reveal his feelings for me. I was also too bashful to really tell him that I wanted to sleep with him, expressing that speaking about such carnal desires was somewhat easier over text and when I thought he was also desiring me much the same. He said many times that we are friends and he is very open and non-judgmental, willing to talk about a myriad of otherwise taboo topics. I have to say, my courage in really asserting myself failed and I informed him that I understand that he couldn’t engage in a relationship when in reality I firmly believe one does not engage in the conversations we had the prior few days without some romantic feelings or true intimacy given the distance from the summer. He told me that he was very comfortable discussing sex and his proclivities, willing to help me learn. He showed me his toys. He asked me again what I wanted and I explained that talking is one thing but I wanted to know what it felt to make love. I suppose in my lust I might have been willing to engage in the notion of friend with benefit, but this would have been nefarious on my part. Deep down I may have felt this was a key to winning him over. This is where he choses to reveal himself to me and brings my hand down to him to touch before I pulled it away. I didn’t know what to do. I didn’t really know how to please him and I didn’t feel right doing so when he told me about the boundary and wanting to be friends. I suppose this is where he was testing the friends with benefits waters and I didn’t bite or try to push the stated boundary for fear of disrespecting the person I truly care about. Now I wonder if I should have – after all the sexual tension maybe I came off as a true tease and now have put him off. Yet – on second thought, I wasn’t. I showed him myself and asked if he wanted to touch. Naturally I was so shy that I had to turn around, back to him, while undressing. There was indecision in his eyes and needless to say, he didn’t touch and fondle. I asked him to dress me so that there was a sense of fairness to the whole exercise.

I just don’t know what to make the whole ordeal. I am so dreadfully confused? Why would he do this and then be so nonchalant over the phone when I asked what his thoughts were the morning after/whether he betrayed himself, and then only to be given the response that he thought of nothing – he was close to breaking a boundary and afraid to feel guilty when he shouldn’t. They why put me through the exercise? Where does this leave us? Is this a final goodbye? I don’t want it to be….

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