[Alice]

Words and actions need to align

!!!! The thing is, when you find the worst in a person, your question then becomes “Is their worst still loveable and acceptable to me?” If it is, then great! That’s a green light. If not, then you know you need to walk away, regardless of the connection. Does this help?
Yes, it is useful.

This is just a social program you are dealing with
It is possible, and then when I think of things from this perspective, it is quite liberating. Now wanting anything. Is this the way to walk through life? Not wanting?

On the other hand, I do feel a bit scared. If I meet someone and decide I want kids? What then? See, I do anticipate quite a bit. 🙂

Kidswise, how do I know if I want them or it is just a social program? 🤣 Can/t a woman have both? 😂
I just spoke to my mother, she was curious what my love life looked like, and regardless of the freedom and support she always gave me, I feel she has an expectation of me family wise and it just makes me feel inadequate.

I am not sure if I deal with a program or a desire. Indeed, without a family, life needs to have a meaning in a different way. I am quite at crossroads right now, between 2 countries, 2 exes, also need to decide which direction I move my career towards. See my point? It is a bit scary due to this multi-level deciding I need to make. If I doo not decide, and just flow with life, isn’t that irresponsible towards my time here?

[Alice]

Hi Heidi,

So good news is that a week has passed, and while during the weekend I was very down, starting Monday I became functional again and worked well, regained my optimism. I went to the sea, and there is something healing about water. For me at least. I still think of A, can not just completely take him out of my mind and I do not think that doing that would be a good tactic. Repressing his memory. I enjoy remembering the good times we had together. Good thing is that I do not feel jealous of that other woman, and I keep telling myself that it is not my business what he does there, and that probably he needs to get clarity / closure himself. After all, he loved (s) her and she left him twice, so I believe that even he does not know what his hidden agenda is. If we go into the theory that we are attracted by familiar circumstances from childhood, then it makes sense: he is the little boy raised by a single biological mother, whose biological father went off to build another family, and in the same time plays the temporary adoptive father role he experienced during his travels with his adoptive mother. 🧐 Complicated, right?

Ok, makes sense what you say about trusting yourself. That was rarely an issue for me. I rather went into the super independent direction, in relationship with men.

Your needs will show up when you feel hurt, anxious, depressed etc. This is a good insight. By contrast.
I keep in touch with my ex, R who is also my business partner. He confessed today that he tried intentionally to make me fit his world, as in his previous 2 relationships he sacrificed work opportunities just to stay close to the woman. I told him that controlling others is not the way to build lasting lifetime partnerships. How do I identify in the future similar behaviours? Or other’s intentions?

. What’s the scary thought? Can you trace it to a need you have? Probably being out there again on the dating market, although on one side it is an adventure as well. I know I would have no problem finding someone new. Deeper lays a fear that I am 39, single, biological clock ticking. I want to enjoy my newfound freedom but I also am aware of this clock… It is a pressure. You probably heard this many times before. Probably the need would be to have a family. But I am not sure… I never had these wedding/ family / knight in shining armour / the one fantasies. From what I experienced with A, I know that I want a certain quality of a relationship, next level relationship, appreciating, understanding, freedom, expansion and a child should come in such nurturing space. So I always put the child second in terms of priorities.
I do not feel like I should compromise, just to reproduce. It sounds harsh, but that is how I feel. In the same time, I get along with children, they love my company so I know I could make a good mother. So this is the dilema…

[Alice]

There’s no need to figure out what you should do about anything until it actually happens. How do you do that? 😂 I understand what you say, but I do tend to anticipate a lot – I am a good planner. Sometimes it is good, sometimes I end up worrying for “possible” outcomes (which I also know on an intellectual level that they might not happen). I have no other explanation for it, but I have done this all my life so far. Planning ahead helps me achieve my objectives, become focused and to strive. Helps me feel in control.

that line of questioning is you putting all your power into THEIR hands.
Speaking up for my needs, that is something I need to practice more. Not doing that, might be linked to a tendency to please people who are close to me. It is hard for me to say no to people who are close to me. It is good I am aware of it. But first I need to be more attentive to identify my needs. How do you identify your needs? By listening to how you feel in a context/ being more aware of the signals of the body? Could this not voicing my needs be linked to a fear of confrontation/ fear of loss of a relationship?

You are on both sides of the coin right now, which is really interesting, isn’t it? True. I need to get used to the thought that I am single, after 7 years. I feel it was a scary thought. 😂

[Alice]

Thank you Heidi and Spyce,

I slept better this night but in the morning when I woke up my mind went straight to A and I felt this heaviness in my chest. I will know I have moved on emotionally when this does not happen anymore.

I spend time with friends and yesterday I even managed to work a few hours. But I am behind with a few other projects and now I need to get myself together because the past week I was quite not functional on this level. I work in my own.

Another level I need to adress is my relationaship with R. We are friends, and also business partners. In our relationship we mostly worked together, he was my “project” (by reading couples literature I see it to be a frequent issue) and I went into a co-dependency state with him, pretty much neglecting some important aspects of my identity. I was hard to identify what had happened until this year when I got more perspective.
So we worked well together but the basic man-woman dynamic did not develop. So I went to A with a hunger to be with a man who would take care of this, and he did. Two months have not compensated yet for 6 years of lack, probably that is why I still crave A.

But coming back to my relationship with R, which is non-sexual, and we agreed to continue working together, which should be the questions I should ask myself? We are also part of a tight community and other projects so it is not like I can just not meet him.

After R breaking up with me, (he eventually made the call, after a long year of us not functioning at all), a month ago he asked if we could try to be together again. I told him everything two days ago about A, he knows my present mental state so he probably figures out that I am not capable right now of it. He feels lonely and sad, but I do not want to go back to a relationship that did not work and for us to re-meet in depressio / pain. I do not think it is the healthy way to do it (I do not think I want to, anyway). And before going into another relationship I think I should make that list of non negotiable traits I seek in a life partner.

Right now myself and R function together well professionally and that is it.

And what do I do if A figures out, like R, after 1 or 2 months that he wants me back? This bouncing between exes (A was love #2 and R #3) is competely new to me.

And what if A does not come back and I continue working with R and I meet somebody new? How can this work?
I have met similar situations where exes are good friends, keepeing in touch, even going together on holidays with their new partners but it did nit happen to me yet.

These are a lot of questions, I hope they make sense. 😌

[Alice]

I could not sleep well all night. In the morning when he saw the message he wished me well on my journey.

I cried for a whole hour, had a power nap, talked with some friends and now I try to focus on work because this story made me unable to keep my mind on much.

Somehow in the back of my mind I know I want him to come back, but probably will not do it anytime soon….. if he does it.

[Alice]

Heidi, thank you for encouraging me to do so.

I was starting to feel agitated and it was related to him not getting in touch today.

So I wrote that little text, telling him that I love him and I know he loves me, but that I can not handle this context in a healthy way, it destabilises me. I also thanked him for the 2 magic months we had together but that now I need to let him go. I also told him to take care with his actions, because sometimes when we want to help we just end up creating more suffering.

I feel better. I also feel sad in the same time. 😉 I need closure on this story as well. I feel good that I had the courage to do it.
I hope the peace comes back because I feel sad.

[Alice]

Heidi,

I will let him go as you suggested next time he writes.
He says that he cares about me and that I suffered. In this context with the child, he considers that his presence there is helpful. And that he will not stop interacting with people just because they become attached. 😂

Whenever I manage to stop thinking about him and just focus on myself, I feel at peace.
When I start analysing and going into the whys and using my energy to figure out what is in his head, it is just draining. The only consolation I have is that my scenarios were correct so I got more trust in my intuition. Talking about silver linings. 😊

Thank you for your advice.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 4 months ago by Alice.

[Alice]

So I need to share this with you because things start becoming hilarious.

My assumptions were correct and I just seem to see his moves in advance or right as he does them.Then I get angry, I decide this is it, I am out of here, I become at peace with my decision of letting go and in a short time he starts writing, sharing with me the exact things I had already figured out. This is a subtle dynamic, but the guessing game is using my mental resources, and I am not sure I want to play it.

So the excursion scenario is correct, he is with them in the mountains, he shared with me a video of the boy having fun in the water, but he keeps on telling me he is not intimate with this woman. That he just feels good with them and wants to be there now. That both her and her son know he is a butterfly (that is how I called him recently), that they know he plans to leave around the world. I told him to pay attention to what he does there, because he might be creating expectations and suffering.

I told him about his saviour complex (he says he fixed that and that he does not try to save other people anymore, he just lives for himself), about him seeing himself in this child, and that his biggest fear and desire are exactly what he says he does not want: being in a couple and having a family. Also I told him that behind a I have no fear attitude (he says he has no fears) hides a HUGE fear and that unless he faces it and creates some tools to handle it, it will “kill” him eventually. He says that he is not convinced of all of these, I told him to keep an open mind and just be curious about it. I told him that travelling and family do not exclude each other and that he can have an adventurous family (that is a tip I got from your courses :). I do not know this family is the one he wants, where he is a surogate father and husband, but who knows? He says that he guides his actions by how it feels. If it feels good, then it is okay, and now he feels he needs to be in that context.

So I get it. Behind the “I do not think you have the time to wait for me, maybe you have better things to do” actually lies a question “Do you have the time to wait for me?”. If this possibility was not present in his mind, he would not keep on updating me on what he is doing and reassuring me he is not intimate with this other woman.
Living in the NOW he forgot the past, and I think / feel he wants to try again being with her. He also knows even deeper that it will not work. But he wants to convince himself of it. Now this is clear to me. This is what he was not telling me since May.

So to answer your question, it is not self love waiting for him to test his options. Best thing for me is to stay out and let him have this experience…

Does it make sense I write him a sort of good bye letter? Explaining how this is not okay for me, being a second option?

[Alice]

I am thinking of just cutting ties.
Would writting a letter where I explain my reasons, help? If I did not care about him, I would just dissapear, which is not the case, obviously. This letter would be more of a way to emphasize how disturbing this is to me. To make him aware that he can not just jump like this from context to context with no emotional consequences. With all his spiritual approach (which I believe to be a crutch) he can not avoid creating pain.

He went away for the week, and I just think that he might have taken this woman and kid with him.
We are connected on a running app, I see his track and I feel that sometimes at the beginning of the run he slows down, meaning somebody runs with him the first part of the track. Either the boy or they run together (the 2/3). This is pure speculation but it makes sense and I can put 2 and 2 together. Maybe it is just imagination, but we know how we tend to dismiss these scenarios which often are correct.

If this speculation is correct, then I am upset, since right before going cold he was telling me on the phone how he was repairing his car because he had bought it so “we go wandering”. We traveled a lot together, during our relationship 12 years ago and in spring.

In this case, writting a letter / trying to meet up with him next week makes any sense?

Or should I just simply dissapear?

Thank you!

[Alice]

Also, an insight. When I first met A 12 years ago, he had this idea to go travel the world. Time passed but he did not do it, he distracted himself with partying.

Now, he still says he wants to travel the world but does not do it. I believe this is just a fantasy, like an excuse from him actually grounding himself. He was building a house in this other country, in the countryside, where this other woman + kid went to live with him for a few months and that I feel got him very excited. But then she left, and I believe she could not adapt to leaving big city life (among other things probably).
After she left, end of 2019, he stopped posting anything exciting about the house on his social accounts, he stopped working on the house, pandemic hit, had a confinement adventure with a woman, then he went ascetic, reconnected with her in autumn via messages, I showed up in spring, and now he just saves her son, because he feels it is a good use of his time. Sounds complicated. In your experience, how long do these dramas keep on going?

[Alice]

This insight about him saving himself through this little boy is quite good. As he was himself in this position, he has a very complicated and unstable family background (biological father has another family, did not get involved in his upbringing, his mother dies when he was young, he was raised my his grandmother and an adoptive mother and father whose marriage did not last, and was pretty much dragged around the world).

So how does this saving happen and for how long? This woman left him twice (I do not know why), he says they are not together but he is “saving” her son… and says that it was his idea too go to stay with them, however we know how ideas can be suggested. Anyway…

How do I act in this context? I believe his need of a family but fear of failure and of commitment to be his biggest blind spot. He is definitely in need of a family and stability as he has coped with his instable family life by developing this concept of extended family where he puts included all his close friends.

I miss him. And now I understand that the 2 months we spent together were a bubble, and somewhat he knew that before me. He was very excited when things so happened that I could stay a few weeks longer with him, and he said: great, we have more time together! Maybe he could give himself completely into this bubble only by knowing it would end. With a deadline. How do you handle such a person with deep fear of commitment?

How do I proceed further? Do I keep the communication line open with him? Or do I just stop talking? First makes more sense in terms of him knowing in the back of his mind that I am there. But is that a good thing to do in his case? I am mature enough to know that some men wake up just when they see that you are really leaving. But often that is too late (in my case). I do not like playing games, I like honesty and things to be clear. However I also know that when people are afraid they behave irrational. So how do I position myself in my head? Do I just look at him with compassion like I would at a scared little boy? Can that release me from the pain and anger I sometimes feel, especially when I am tired?

As for the list, yes, that sounds interesting. I guess I need to do two lists – the nice to have and the vital, to rank them and follow through. How much detail should I put and how many criteria? Is that similar to a vision board?

Thank you.

[Alice]

Also, I have this inner certainty that he will come around, and it is quite reassuring. I am not sure where this stands on the border between intuition and wishful thinking, however. I guess time will tell. I am also aware that by the time he comes around, I might have already moved on… so in this moment I am quite neutral about it.

[Alice]

Hi Heidi,

So we met for lunch, I saw he was a bit tense at the beginning as he did not know how I would behave. He loosened up quite fast after I gave him a book for his birthday and read my dedication.

I was in a good mood so that reassured him.
We spoke of many things for the 2 hours we spent together. I saw him looking at me, I know that he is still interested in me but something holds him back.

He says that he can not be fully present in 2 places at once, so that’s where the disconnect happens. His recent life philosophy is to give full atention to the people he is surrounded by in a certain moment. He knows he can not hide from me, because my intuition is strong and he saw a few times how that works with people I am really close to. I just know when something is not ok.

Right at the end of our meeting I asked him how the “saving” goes. He says that he is not saving the other woman, that she would have handled things by herself. Her son (she has a child) is quite attached to him, and is going through a difficult moment, as his biological father has a new wife + newborn baby, the child feels neglected and is made to feel ungrateful. A explained that he is mostly there for himself, because he is in this unique position to help. Also he said that he did not have sex with the child’s mother and does not plan to get married as he has better things to do.

Bringing the conversation back to us, I told him that in this moment I just wanted to continue seeing each other, which he knows and told me that we do not know what tommorow brings. (!)

In terms of comittment, he said that he does not know if I have the time and want to wait for him, as odds are slim now for him to want something like that. He said that maybe I can do something better with my time.

I know that he is afraid of losing his freedom. He wants to travel the world and still looks for something to channel his energies into. He is in a search mode and not even he knows exactly what he looks for, but is comfortable with it and just flows along.

He will be out of town for a week, myself as well, next I will have business to sort out in another city, so I do not know how / when / if we meet again. I also have to return for 1 and a half months to this other country, so our chances to meet again are either in the next 2-3 weeks or in autumn.

My friends ask me what’s next. I do not know. I know I miss his presence, I know we could adventure together as we are both quite the nomad type, I would like to do that with him but I know that I can not push him as that would probably get me the oposite reaction.

In terms of the water metaphor, I get it, there might be better water out there if I just start looking around.

In terms of what I need, it looks like I am still figuring it out. I am not sure I want to be in a couple, I like my freedom and is my nr1 value. So I need to feel free in a potential new realtionship as well. Free be express myself, to follow my interests, to have my varied social circle. I want to have an emotionally mature man by my side, more of an intellectual – sporty type as I like to do activities and need mental stimulation. And then there’s the chemistry / the sensual aspect which is very important. And of course, somebody more of an equal. Is my list unrealistic?:) Apart from the emotional availability, A pretty much ticks everything on it. And I tick all points on his list. So what are we talking about here? Timing and fear?

Thank you!

[Alice]

Hy Sypce,

Your post made me smile, in a good way. 🙂 Thank you.

When I first met A years ago, we just clicked, had a distance relationship for a few months, as I was working abroad and then I returned to our home country also because I wanted a change but also because I had fallen in love with him. We lived together, but after a year we simply drifted apart, disconnected due to stress and our inability to manage it, no real drama. I had a cultural shock, returning home in a different town (not my hometown) after 6 years and he was overwhelmed because he had too many responsibilities for his age at that time. Taking care of his grandmother, sick aunt and family business, at 24 yo, when all he wanted was to have a simpler life. I am 4 years older than him. I suffered quite a bit after the breakup, as he was somebody with whom I had deepened my levels of intimacy. 🙂 So there we go, years later, I go into the same cycle with him. :)) After our breakup, he partied hard for a few years and eventually hit a wall.

I do not keep in touch with exes, but he called me a few years ago to apologise for anything he might have done and not understood way back then (he was going through an existential crisis). We briefly changed some messages over the years and all the time he kept on saying the same thing. I went back to him on a gut feeling, I knew I could just pop in and be welcomed. I had lost my father in January, to whom I was very close, so there was a sadness I needed to process as well. As I mentioned, I was starting to feel unhealthy in my body and my instinct told me to do something about it. So I just called A out of the bloom and 2 days later I was at his place, with the intention of just changing scenery for 1 week, which turned into 2 months. You call it a fantasy, I call it a retreat, because that is how I felt in the countryside with nature around, very few people and him fully present for me.

Come to think of it, I enjoy my freedom, however I would like our interaction to continue. I see no reason for it to end. I somewhat seem to be able to open up with A in ways I was not able with other men, so, yes, looks like this is what keeps me interested / hooked. Is this not ok?
He is very masculine but in the same time kind and gentle. He has a good heart and sex is just awesome. 🙂

I will meet with him today and see where he stands.

Thank you!

[Alice]

Also, how would a friendship with A look like? I never had that with an ex.

[Author]

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