[Franziska F]

Yes and I’m quite surprised that this information came so soon. I thought it would still be a while until somthing like that would happen.

Tell me what you said to him?
Well that was when he asked me what I wanted from him. I told him I could imagine the FWB to be more than that. He then told me, for him it wasn’t more at the moment. I said I was okay with it how it was at the moment (like I didn’t need for it to turn into a relationship immediately). Afterwards I found out he was interested in Anna. We spoke one more time after that, as I found it weird that he didn’t tell me and how it all ended. There I just told him, that it was okay for me and that we could still be friends.
So he does know, that I could’ve imagined more with him, but he doesn’t know that I acutally like him that much at the moment and that I have feelings for him.
I know that being honest is better, but at the moment I couldn’t tell him, when I knew he wanted something from my friend Anna. And also as you’re saying, I didn’t want to pressure him and scare him away.

Oh Colorado sounds nice. I live in Switzerland, so I have a lot of beautiful mountains and landscapes everywhere too. Haha yes I like to always be doing something and making the things happen that I like. And I don’t need a guy to do all these things (although it would also be nice to have someone by my side too, but it’s not a must have for me).
We’re still trying to make the hiking plans work, no set date so far, but probably next weekend.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Yes I do. I hope that I will see him soon. Actually I’m harder to meet up with at the moment. He has asked a few times (about the hiking), and I always had to decline or cancel as I already had plans or meetings. I don’t think he knows, as I have told him otherwise when we spoke last about this, and I didn’t want to say anything while he was interested in Anna.

So I met Anna a few days ago and she told me about her time away. She actually hooked up with quite a few guys and is really enjoying her single life. And she told me some news about Tim. So before she went away, Tim kissed her. She was very surprised by this, as she only felt that they were still friends (that’s how she told me, although she knew that he was interested in her). Then while she was away, he was going to visit her, but she declined and he was pretty bummed about that. So when she came back, they met and talked about their situation. She told him, that she needed her freedom and that she didn’t want a relationship at the moment and to settle for something. For him this wasn’t possible anymore, so they broke off contact, because it would have been too hard for him.
When I talked to her, she told me that it’s hard for her, because she didn’t want to lose him completely, but it’s probably for the best. I also asked her, if she didn’t have any feelings or interest in him, as she has known him for quite a while and gotten to know him quite well. She also told me (as I suspected before), that she thinks it would have happened already, if there were any feelings there from her side.

Yes that was quite fun, I think I’m trying a different temporary colour soon, as I’m going to a few festivals / parties. I really like the imagination of having a new hair colour, so I think I will do it as soon as I have the money to get it properly done.

I went to a village in the mountains with my best friend. We went on a few very nice lookout points and made some awesome trips and just enjoyed our lives. Next week I’m going away again for a few days with my mum, to a spa hotel also in the mountains. I hope I can relax a bit there and anjoy the time with her and doing some cool things.

[Franziska F]

So I’ve been on holiday for the last few days, which was really nice to have some rest and not think too much for a while.
I’m meeting Anna in two days to finally catch up with her. Maybe I’m also meeting Tim on the same day, if it works out with his work schedule. I’m really curious what they will tell me, as the only update I got so far was from Dave a few weeks ago, that Tim thinks Anna is not interested in him.

I’d say still about an 8. And it seems like I keep finding more similarities between us too.

I really think I will do it. Probably just dye it first and then see if I want to change my hairstyle too. I went to a costume party the other day and dyed my hair in a plum shade with a temporary colour. I really liked the change just for the day and I really felt like doing something to my hair permanently would be nice.

[Franziska F]

Haha yes that’s what my friends and I have been saying too! I should turn my life situation into a movie haha. The only thing missing now is that Anna would be chasing Dave and the chaos would be complete. I just really hope that this movie has a happy ending for everyone.
And thank you for your advice with Dave. I will tell him when I see him the next time. I guess it’s better when he knows this as early as possible, so he doesn’t get his hopes up.

Anna is coming back from her work trip this weekend, so I’m really curious what will happen after that with her and her guys and of course with Tim.

Yes I realized that too. And I’m trying to pay much closer attention to it. Of course I knew this before, but I never really consciously tried to do it or pay attention to others reactions and signals. Well I flirt with my guy friends too, and that also seems easier for me, because I know it’s not serious and doesn’t mean anything. I guess I have to try and overcome my fear of flirting with someone that I actually seriously want to flirt with and just do it. It’s not such a big deal and I think I might just be overthinking the whole thing.

I’m thinking about red. I’ve been thinking about this for a while, but always let it go again. Otherwise I wouldn’t change much about my hairstyle, I have quite long hair and I like it that way, so I wouldn’t want to get it cut much shorter.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

What about this was overwhelming?
Well it actually is a very nice compliment and I was flattered by it. But I really didn’t know how to respond to it, as it felt like he is already wanting more and really interested and really likes me, whereas for me that’s too fast. Especially since I said we could meet as friends and just see where it goes. He also said that he is not seeing other girls at the moment because of me, and that clearly means he is not seeing me as just a friend.

I think it’s also good to keep some distance. Luckily I have a lot going on in the next few weeks and already told him that, so that shouldn’t be a problem. It might help me to get a clearer understanding to what I actually want. The thing with Dave is also, he is a nice guy and would treat me well, and I don’t want to “use” him. I do/did want to give him a chance, but I feel like I would just go out with him out of pity. I did like the time we spent together though, so it’s not that it was very awkward or we had nothing to say to each other or something like that. But it just doesn’t feel like it’s going somewhere. (I do feel like telling him this and being honest would be the right thing. I think I’m hesitating because I haven’t gotten to know him that well, and still think I want to give him a chance and not just say no right away. But usually my inital feeling stays quite the same and I can trust my gut feeling).

Well actually I mainly focused on myself. Like I wore something that I knew looked good on me, I did my hair and I put some make-up on. I really felt confident with the way I looked and what I was wearing. What I also tried to focus on was eyecontact. I realized that Angelina Jolie does that quite a lot and I often catch myself looking away or not knowing where to look, especially when I like someone, because I get nervous or it feels awkward. (actually i just remember now, that was why Dave thought I was interested in him at first, when I met him and Tim at Annas birthday party. He told me that I kept looking at him at that party, and not Tim, that’s why he thought I was interested in him. It was actually just because of the way the chairs were seated, I was sitting at the table across from Dave, so it was natural that I that I looked at him when I just looked straight ahead. Whereas Tim was sitting next to me, so I looked less frequent to him. I didn’t even mean to seem more flirty or interested in any of them at that time though.)

At that other party last weekend I got good responses, some guys kept coming back to me a few times to talk to me and seemed quite interested. I’m thinking though, that it’s easier for me to flirt with people I don’t know yet, because I can’t ruin anything. Like if they don’t respond to the flirting or think it’s weird or so, it doesn’t matter so much. When I’m flirting with someone I know already there is always the risk, that he thinks I’m weird or that I want too much or whatever, and I guess I’m a little scared of that happening.

Haha the idea of dyeing my hair actually sounds better and better to me. I don’t know yet if I will do it, but I will definitely tell you when I decide to take that step.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Yes I am trying to do that and trying to do what’s good for me. And I think as long as he has a thing for Anna, I can’t do much except wait and see where things go.
Although it might look like he might stop trying with her. I went and had a drink with Tim’s friend Dave the other night. And Dave told me that Tim told him, that he probably has to stop seeing Anna, as she is not that into him and he doesn’t want to get hurt. I was really glad when I heard that, not only because of me, but because I had hoped that it wouldn’t get as far that Tim gets hurt. And it looks like he realized that himself.

The thing now is though, Dave told me that he really likes me. We had met at the party where I also met (and made out with) Tim. After that only 2 more times. Dave told me that he was angry at Tim at that party, as he was interested in getting to know me back then already. After that and during the FWB with Tim I didn’t see Dave again, but he knew about us, as Tim had told him. Dave also wasn’t happy about that. Especially when Tim snuck out during the military course to meet me, Dave was also really angry (Dave and Tim went to the same military course). This was just before Anna got single again and before Tim ended things with me. A few days later, Dave started texting me.
I don’t know what Tim knows about Daves feelings, but I do know that he is a good friend. He wouldn’t do anything to hurt his friends feelings.
As for me, I did meet Dave twice now, just as friends though. It was nice spending time with him, and although he is not my type actually, I though why not give him a chance? (Especially since Tim has/had the thing for Anna, and waiting around forever for him doesn’t solve anything either). Dave has told me that he really thinks I’m an interesting person and that he likes talking to me.
This was a bit overwhelming for me, but I really wanted to give him a chance. I also don’t want to hurt him though, and I really don’t know what the best thing to do would be. On one side I still really like Tim (although there is the possibility that he never likes me the way I want him to), on the other side I want to give Dave a chance (who is a good guy, likes me, but not really my type). I don’t want to hurt either of them or jeopardize their friendship. And because they are friends I can’t really go back and forth or get to know both of them at the same time or anything like that.

Haha yes I actually have thought about changing my hair (like in cutting it or dyeing). Haven’t done it yet though, as I’m actually quite happy with it and don’t want to damage it with dyeing. Now that you’ve mentioned it, I feel like experimenting a bit more with styles and different hairdos could be something for me to pay a bit more attention to though.

Thank you for your tips with Anna. As she is on a work trip now, I won’t see her for a few days/weeks, but I will remember your advice for when she is back.

Thank you also for your movie recommendations. I was at a party last weekend and tried some of the flirting advice that you gave me, and that I saw from the movie. And I must say, it acutally worked really well. There wasn’t any guy that I was actually interested in, but it was still fun to try out the tips and flirt a little.

[Franziska F]

Yes that’s what I feel like too, especially with this situation. I mean so far I was fine with figuring things out on my own or with the help of friends. But at the moment it’s really helpful to talk to someone else. I also feel like friends (although they just want the best) want to make the decisions for me and tell me what to do, and that often doesn’t feel right for me. Whereas when I talk to you, I get to understand the situation better and then make a desicion for myself based on that.

And yes, all the points that you’ve mentioned make a lot of sense.
I’m actually not even the type to do FWB. I don’t know why I agreed to do that with Tim, somehow it just felt right. I guess because he also said at the beginning, that if it matched, it could turn into something serious too. And I’m sure he meant that too, but as you described here, FWB basically sets it up for no emotional attachment, although it might be a good match initially (am I getting this right?).
Normally I also don’t get attached very fast or catch feelings, so that’s also another reason why I agreed to that with Tim. But somehow it was all different this time. Sometimes I wish I could turn back time and start it all differently with him.

I also believe that this game can get unhealthy, especially when someone does it for their self-esteem. I know I’m comparing myself to Anna again, but I think that might actually be her problem. Do you have any tips how I could help her with this?

By the way, I watched the movie you recommended with Angelina Jolie, “the tourist”. I really liked it and I think I could learn from it too. So if you have any other recommendations similar to it, I’m happy to watch more like this movie.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Yes it’s not an easy situation for me, especially because I don’t want to lose either of them because of this situation. At the moment I can still handle it and I really hope it will come to a good end for all of us.
It sounds like that to me too. I think she likes him as a friend, but not more. Anna has known Tim now for over a year and gotten to know him for a while, so in my opinion, if she was interested in him at all, something would have happened already. Although it could be that I’m just telling that to myself to feel a little better.

I do think that he feels like he has to chase her. I’m not sure whether he knows about the guys she is dating now, but for sure when they got to know each other, she was unattainable.
And as we already kissed when we first met (of course we were both a bit drunk), he knew from the beginning on that I was interested and afterwards with the FWB that he didn’t have to chase much.
What exactely do you mean with setting the guy up to not really emotionally attach? What does set a guy up to emotionally attach then?

I will try and do that, I’ve actually been on a few dates lately (haven’t let him know though). I’ve also tried to be a little more flirty on snapchat, but not too much that he would think I’m trying too hard. I’ve been doing a lot with friends and went on trips and adventures. He started reacting more to pictures of what I was doing and also texted/talked more to me on snapchat. But this might just be me imagining it, as this is what I want. Or it might be that he just had a bit more freetime right now or less to do at work and therefore more time to text.
And yes I understand what you are saying with the sassiness, I will keep that in mind and try it too.

And I just wanted to say thank you for all your tips so far, they have helped me also understanding the situation a bit better. It feels good to tell all this stuff to someone and to hear your opinion.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

That could be possible. I think for Anna he is just a friend. She does like him as a friend, but when she tells me about the guys she’s seeing, he doesn’t seem like a priority to her. She tells me more about other guys or that it bothers her when those guys don’t text her or wait to meet her. She also told me a few things that she doesn’t like about him, like his body or his reaction to a certain topic.
She does know that I could’ve imagined more with him, as in a relationship, but she doesn’t know that I still like him like this now.
Oh that is a though question, I would say about 8. I really do like him, but I also know that I’d have to get to know him a bit better, to decide that for sure.

Yes, every now and then. I do think there could be more exploring there. I will consider this and keep it in mind. I am quite comfortable in my body, but I think there is still more possible, especially regarding my sexual energy and flirting.

Yes that’s exactely how I feel. I think she really doesn’t see what she has with him and doesn’t appreciate him. I think it’s not fair, that he is such a good guy in my opinion and interested in a girl, that doesn’t see it. I think it would be easier for me, if she actually showed interest in him too and they got in a happy relationship together, because then I’d know he’d be happy and that it was the right decision for him to go after her.
I do still like Anna as my friend and I think it’s okay for her to have all those guys. But it bothers me that Tim is one of them and doesn’t even know it. I’m not sure whether I’m comparing myself to her a lot, I hadn’t really thought about this. I think when it comes to Tim, yes I do compare myself to her and search for reasons why he might be interested in her and not me. Other than that it doesn’t really matter to me, I know that she talks to a lot of guys, but there I don’t really compare myself to her, because I think she can live her life how she wants, and that doesn’t necessarily have to be the way how I would live my life.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Yes that’s what I was thinking too, that’s why I was unsure how to start flirting with him in general. So yes I will try and do that when we go hiking, we will be together for a few hours, so I think there will be a few opportunities to start with some flirting.
Yes you are correct about that, just platonic at the moment. There is nothing more going on, at least not that I would have noticed anything in the last few weeks.

I do know that they have been spending quite some time together and gotten to know each other. I don’t know how well he actually knows her though. If you can ask more specific questions here, it might help me to describe their relationship. It’s difficult to just tell whether he knows her well or not, because everyone has a different conception of that.

Yes, thats true. And I don’t have to date Dave right away. I told him I would meet him just as a friend and see where things would go.
I just don’t want to be someone that hops from guy to guy and plays with their feelings. I know I wouldn’t do that, but if Dave acutally caught feelings and I had a thing again with Tim (hypothetically), I would still feel bad and it would be worse, because they are friends too. But so far, nothing has happend yet anyway, I will see where things go.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Hi Heidi

Thank you for your Tips. I think I’m actually already doing a lot of those things, but not always consciously and I will try and do it more consciously. Do you have any tips about what that I can do through text or snapchat or so?

Tim and I are still talking, but haven’t met in person for a while. This was also because I was quite occupied with studying for the last few weeks. We have plans though to go on a hike together soon, should the weather be good.
I’m not sure if I was clear when I described their relationship. They don’t have a FWB thing going on, for now they are just friends. But Tim said he would like to get to know her better (like he is interested in her) but doesn’t want to rush anything, as she just got out of her relationship. As far as I know, he is not dating or seeing anyone else and focusing at her at the moment.
Anna on the other hand is getting to know multiple guys. She is not serious with anyone yet and kind of exploring her options, she doesn’t have FWB with anyone, but has had a thing with a few of them (with a few still going on). I do know, that she likes one of them better, as she came to me for advice with him. But she doesn’t want to focus on one person too early. Tim and Anna haven’t had a thing yet and I think he doesn’t know about the other guys. I think he does like her a lot, which is also what one of his friends said to me a few weeks ago.

This brings me to another part of this story, which makes it a little more complicated. So at that party where I first met Tim, he had a friend with him, I’ll call him Dave to make things easier to understand. I made out with Tim and then started texting him and later the FWB thing. But Dave actually liked me too at that party, but was too shy to approach me and later on didn’t want to interrupt the thing with me and Tim. Dave also told me, that he actually thought Tim and I would end up together. (I don’t know exactely what Dave knew about us, but he definitely knew, that we were meeting regularly and that it started as FWB). So after the FWB with Tim ended, Dave started texting me. I told Dave, that he wasn’t really my type and that I found it a bit weird to text him after the thing with Tim. I still agreed though to meet him in person once (I hadn’t seen him since that party, and even at that party we hardly talked), as Dave asked me to and I didn’t want to just say no right away.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Hi Heidi

Sorry I actually wrote an answer, but for some reason it didn’t upload it on here.

I do agree that it’s important to make a lot of different experiences in my 20s. I’ve also travelled after school and met new people, dated a few people and learnt a lot from it. And I love making new experiences with my friends, going away with them and exploring new places. And I do agree that a lot of different people can teach you different things and give you various insights. But in my opinion I’d rather make important memories and meaningful experiences with a person that means a lot to me, than with just a random person I’m dating at the moment.

Yes what you are saying could acutally be true. As to the flirting, I’m not quite sure how to start it now. I don’t want it to come off as desparate or like I’m trying too hard.
Regarding the sex, it was mostly him who initiated it. I wanted it too of course and he never forced me to do anything I didn’t want. We were ususally watching a movie in bed together or chilling on his bed. It usually was a bit unexpected, like without much looking into each others eyes or touching, or stuff like this, he just started kissing me. We’d usually spend quite some time with foreplay too and he would always care for my pleasure too, he was never selfish. The sex usually lasted for quite some time too (although he said the first few times he probably wouldn’t last long, as his last FWB and last sex was in summer last year). We also tried different positions, and usually he was the one leading (which I do prefer in bed). He always asked though what I liked and what felt good for me. Afterwards we’d usually continue with the movie, cuddle or he would put his arm around me and stroke my back or my hair. As to how frequent it was, pretty much every time when I visited him and we were in bed together. It was never planned though, like he never invited me just to have sex and I never came just for sex and go home straight afterwards.

As I mentioned his other FBW, I’ll tell you a bit about that. So in summer he had FWB with another girl. At that time he’d already met Anna, which was then already in a relationship. His other FWB fell in love with him and kept asking him on date, which he didn’t want. So he ended things with her and she had to cut off the contact to him, because it was too hard for her. He said that he felt really bad and that he didn’t want that to happen. I don’t know if Anna was already the reason there too or if it just didn’t work out with that other girl. After that he didn’t have anything with a girl for quite a while (like he went on a few dates, but nothing more happened). And as far as I know, I was the first girl he slept with again and had FWB since that girl in June (We started FWB in January).

Another thing that I haven’t mentioned before is where we live. Anna lives two villages away from Tim, so it’s maybe a 10 minute drive. I live a bit further away, so it takes around 50 minutes for him to get to me. I don’t know if that could have been a reason too, but I thought it might be worth mentioning.

I hope I could give you a bit more insight into the situation, and I’m glad to tell you more if necessary.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Hi Heidi

Yes I think so too. The 20s are not always an easy chapter in life. And I also know that I don’t have to have everything figured out at the beginning of my 20s. Tim has told me, that he’s already explored quite some things with women and made some experiences. He doesn’t regret them, but he’s also said, that he would have rather met the woman he would marry earlier that he would end up with. He thinks that those experiences were okay, but not necessary if he had the right woman earlier. (I’m not quite sure how to phrase this, as english is not my first language, but I hope you understand what I’m saying). And that is also my opinion. I don’t necessarlily need to explore with a lot of people, if I have the right person I can exlore and make experiences with them.

Actually no, we didn’t really flirt a lot, especially not in person. Just sometimes a flirty text or snap. I guess I haven’t really thought about this so much. When I go out I don’t consciously flirt with guys, although it often comes across as flirting, as I’m quite open and friendly with everyone. So I always had a few guys that were interested in me, most of the time I wasn’t interested in them, as I didn’t mean to flirt with them or attract them. I’ve hardly ever flirted on purpose though, to actually get a guy that I wanted.
I do think that this could be the case. Anna always has a lot of guys that are drawn towards her. And Tim actually started liking her, when she was in the relationship, so when she was really unavailable. Whereas I was always really available for him without much effort.

Tim actually did say that he really liked my body and that he thought I was hot. He also called me pretty or beautiful. I think he liked spending time with me, we had a similar sense of humour, are both adventurous and spontaneous and easy-going. We had fun together, but sometimes also talks about more seroîous topics. Yes I do think he felt safe with me. He told me a few personal things, like with his ex and also about his family.
Tim also was very caring with me, even after he told me he liked Anna. It was important to him, that we could stay friends and that I was okay. I also had a difficult situation at home, and he told me that I could always come and talk to him.

I think his ex definitely still influences him, especially because he’s also brought it up a few times (although they’ve been broken up for more than 2 years). And I do think he is afraid to get hurt again.

I hope this gives you more insight into the situation, if I can explain a point further or answer any of your questions more clearly, I will gladly do so.

Franziska

[Franziska F]

Hey Heidi

Thank you for your answer.

So I am 23 years old, Anna is 21 and Tim is 25. Tim and I were in contact and flirting (mostly through text) for about 3 months and then actually dated for another 3 months. He has known Anna quite a bit longer than me, when I first met him they had already known each other for at least 6 months.
He’s been in a serious relationship once. That was 2 years ago and he told me that he was in love with that girl (also with her it took him some time until he told her that he loved her). She broke up with him, because she wanted to meet new guys and try new things, which was really hard for Tim to deal with. It took him a long time to get over her.

I might have to clarify here, that Tim actually does want something serious, but is not looking for a relationship from the beginning on (if that makes sense). Like he told me that he wants to get married and everything, and wants a relationship, but when he meets a girl he first wants to see where ist goes and not define something from the beginning.

Considering the experience Tim had with his ex girlfriend, I suppose that it’s quite possible that he has quite some walls up.

I think I’ve already realized my feelings earlier, when he was still available. But because he was in the military I kind of didn’t let myself feel them too much, because I couldn’t talk to him about it and I didn’t want to overthink things then. Also I wasn’t quite sure what he wanted, so I didn’t want to admit to myself that I wanted more, to protect myself kind of.
It’s not that I hadn’t realized some of my feelings earlier, but in the moment when Anna told me that Tim was interested in her, I felt really jealous, which i hadn’t before, as there was no reason for it before.
I don’t think that my feelings are there just because he is currently not available for me, although this fact might add a little to it.
And acutally no, I don’t have a pattern like this, this ist the first time I am in a situation where I have feelings for an unavailable guy. I mean I have met and liked other guys that were unavailable, but it was always okay for me and I just forgot about them and didn’t bother with it anymore. In the situation now I tried to do that, but I can’t forget him and keep thinking that there could have been more and that I don’t want to give up and try again.

Well it’s not that I am not looking for anything serious. It is my goal in the long term to have a more serious relationship. But I don’t think that it has to be defined from the beginning, which was why I told him that too and I was fine when we started out with just being friends with benefits. I am not in a rush to fall in love or find a relationship though. I wouldn’t get involved with someone just to have a relationship and not be alone. I would call myself quite independent and I have some good friends, so I am actually really happy without a partner and don’t necessarily need a relationship. With Tim I felt like he could be the one person that was worth my time and that would be worth getting into a relationship with. As I wrote in my first post, he was the first guy, who I wanted to make time for. Before I would normally not prioritize a guy to my friends, because no guy was ever that important to me. If I had a free day I would normally call my friends first before any guy I dated. With Tim I would think of him first as well (I wouldn’t say he was already more important than my friends, but probably on the same level). I hope this makes sense to you, it’s not that easy for me to describe this feeling or situation.

And actually yes, the point that he dropped me when Anna became single again does bother me. I do think though, because he has known her longer and had been interested in her before, that that was a big point for his decision. He also told me, that he had done a lot of thinking when he found out about Anna being single again. I might be very wrong about this, but I had the feeling that he acutally liked both of us, but decided to first get to know Anna, as he’s known her longer and knows more about her. Whereas with me, we were still getting to know each other, so he couldn’t judge me as well as her yet. And like I wrote before, it takes him quite a long time to develop feelings or get interested in someone, so it does make sense to persue the person he has known longer first.

[Author]

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