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Just out of curiosity – I’m wondering if you think it came as a surprise to him that I chose not to wait around and decided to call it. I can’t help but wonder if he was pushing me towards that or if that was surprising to him that I finally set a clear boundary. I know you don’t know other people’s thoughts, but based on experience with avoidants…..curious what you think.
And thanks for offering your support for me when I need it. Appreciate that!
Love and hugs.
Hi Heidi,
Definitely learning a lot – that’s for sure. The more I read about avoidants…..I realize he is not the typical avoidant in some areas. For instance…..he loves to cuddle with me….we will lay on the couch together watching tv for hours at night…….many times drifting off into a nap……and he is incredibly physically affectionate before, during, and after sex. I read somewhere that avoidants are more likely to have less sex than other couples without an avoidant. That is definitely not him. He focuses SO MUCH on me when we are intimate….that sometimes it makes ME a little overwhelmed and unsure how to handle the attention. I also read that many avoidants don’t like kissing. That’s not him either. In fact, while I’ve told him a number of times that I love kissing him…..I’m rarely the one to approach him or initiate a kiss. It is most always him that will say things like, “why aren’t you kissing me right now?” or “come over here and kiss me.” And he’s even told me that he thinks I pull away from kissing too soon…..which I didn’t even think I was doing. I’ve told him that I don’t always need to hear him say the words about how he feels about me because his actions show it nearly ALL the time. When it comes to affection……either we equally approach each other about that, or he’s the one who approaches me more. And I think I’m a little less likely to approach him on that sort of stuff simply because of my past experiences in my marriage….when sometimes – certain types of touches have triggered almost a reflex reaction of withdrawal. I even once – after he grabbed me in a playful way with an hour of me arriving to visit him (after months apart), I actually hit his hand away….because I wasn’t expecting it…..and had just been so used to slapping my ex’s hand away when he would grope me in disrespectful ways.So …..I don’t know what all that means…..but I do see him having no problem showing me great affection….and often. And also….he confides in me about things…..and has said that there are probably only five people in the world who know him as well as I do. Another comment he has said over the years is how – out of all the people he has been in relationships with – he feels most comfortable – more himself – around me than any other. Again….don’t know what that means…..but I am hoping he takes these things into consideration when he gets back home to his isolated life and really thinks about it. He may stay angry at me for a longer period of time since I actually took the step to end it – which I’m not sure if that surprised him or not. Do you think it did? I really don’t know! But anyway….I’m going to be me….true to myself….while demanding proper treatment.
As for driving by his house, I don’t think it was a numbness. Trust me…..I know what it feels like to be numb! I think the fact that I was heading to pick up my amazing son to go visit family and do something really fun and special with about 20 family members….I think that helped me to focus on the good I have in my life and not the bad. And then knowing that I’ll have my son for the next week…..well….that just makes me happy. So, def not numbness….but I can see how it very well could have been!
As far as techniques and skills to get through……I have amazing friends who call me up and walk with me. I walked 7.8 miles the other night over 2.5 hours with a friend! And guess what? We only talked about Joey for 10-15 minutes tops, and I was done talking about it. I have work that I love that keeps me busy. I am in a group of fitness freaks that compete in groups against other groups (all from my company) to have the most combined steps in every day. So walking and exercise keep me busy. I’ve been writing down my thoughts as they come to me….the ones I want to get out of my head and onto paper. And I’ve also tried some guided meditation the past few mornings.
Do you have any other suggestions?
Spyce! Yourreply made me laugh out loud! Funny….I don’t see myself as a bad ass…..but after that reply from him…..there was NO WAY I was gonna say, “ohhhhh, ok honey pie….I’ll wait around for you to decide whether or not you want to end things.” Hell no!
I’ll admit…….I am still hoping that when he gets back home, is no longer distracted with the home projects I know he’s doing for his mom….and also distracted with just spending time with his mom knowing her condition……I can’t help but hope that maybe he will reach out to me and be willing to have a conversation. And depending on how that convo goes……if he is hoping to mend things….it will only be with a commitment from him to learn about his attachment style and WORK ON IT. If he can’t do that….then I just can’t. I WANT TO…..but I can’t. If I don’t hear from him in a month or two, I do plan to send him a hand written letter, expressing my final thoughts as a way to get closure for myself.
I’ve been doing so much reading lately about the avoidant. Funny thing is….I’m NOT an anxious. I’m 55% secure…..and HE triggers the anxious in me! I was also surprised because I drove within a half mile of his house today…..and unlike Thursday when I did that and felt sick to my stomach…..today, I felt nothing. Just felt normal. A switch went off in me the moment I made that decision. NOt sure how to explain it other than resolve – because for as much as I want him…..and trust me….I freaking want him……I am not going to tolerate being treated that way. Nope.
As for my 30 year marriage. It was a marriage of convenience. We were young and in the Marines, looking for a family away from home. Did I love him? Sure. But we were always more like partners than lovers. I never felt emotionally safe with him. He did not respect by boundaries with certain things. As an alcoholic, I was lied to and manipulated more times than I know. He would even make me second guess my kids’ stories because his lies were so convincing. He was (is) one of those people who lie to you…..and make you feel like YOU’RE crazy if you don’t believe them. He cheated on my all during my first pregnancy up until my daughter was four months old…….altho he will say it was an emotional and never sexual. Although there was a physical aspect to it. So…yeah….that was the breaking point when I shut down….and 20 years later, just now about to sign separation papers.
Back to my man – sorry….I still can’t help to call him that…..I watched a video today about how to tell if an avoidant really loves you….is smitten with you. He fit every single one of the categories she listed and not just barely….but by a lot.
1. Trusting to leave you alone in his space for extended periods of time. I mean, I spent two whole weeks, 8 hours a day in his place alone working remotely while he went to work.
2. Travelling with me….and making the travel plans WITH or for me. We’ve been to Vegas, Sedona, Disney…..and trips that involve a 4-8 hour trip in a car.
3. Introducing me to his family.
4. Breaking his own rules for me – like this long distance relationship in the first place.
5. she said emotionally unavailable men are more likely to have acts of service as their top love language……this guy always did things for me – to include rearranging one of his bedrooms and buying furniture to be an office for me when I come out
6. Surprises me with unexpected and thoughtful gifts. His gifts at Christmas have always been very sentimental…..typically referring back to a memory I had shared with him that he just remembered and got me something that reminded me of that memory. And even more recently, since I’ve moved out….he’s been sending me things in the mail.So it’s just weird. I know he loves me. And I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t hoping for him to come back and say he’ll make an effort. Whether he does or not, I have no clue, but at least now he knows what I will and will not tolerate.
Thanks for the encouragement.
Becky
Also, the photos I want him to delete are more of a “private” nature – if you know what I mean. I edited that when I put it in the forum for the sake of decency!
Thanks Heidi.
I cried plenty last night. No more tears today for this. I’m not saying there won’t be some at some later point, but no more today. Honest, the second I made the decision for him, I immediately felt a “switch” go on inside me – and a tad of relief to no longer be walking around in egg shells not knowing what’s going on. I felt a strength inside me that I didn’t expect. Today, I am spending the day with a good friend shopping at IKEA- which I love. The freaking songs over head about “when will I see you again” and another similar one really ticked me off. I’m exhausted from not sleeping much and starting to feel that panicky feeling that maybe I reacted too quickly or too harshly…..or too final.It’s going to take a long time for me to stop loving him and feeling like he was “it” for me. I don’t like this feeling.
Funny. I bought this $47 book to help my relationship, not end it within days. Oh well.
Well, here we go.
My text to him at 5:20
So. I haven’t slept yet, I’ve spent more time in tears tonight than I’d like to admit, and I need you to know that you shutting me out is really taking a toll on me. It’s seriously hurting me. I’m miserable with this guessing game.
I want to see you in person to talk to you- either tomorrow (Saturday) or Sunday. You choose. I’m not going another week feeling like this. If you choose not to respond to this, you’re gonna find me knocking on your door anyway – because I deserve a conversation with you.
Either you care about me enough to put your fears aside for a second to talk to me face to face, or you can care about me enough to tell me straight out that you’re letting me go. I hope it’s not the latter.His response:
I can’t meet. I’m working on something that is taking up all of my time. As far as not talking to you, I’m not doing so to torture you in any way, but rather because I have been giving serious thought to ending things. I’ve been distracting myself with working around the house, so I haven’t been able to put more thought into what needs to be said and done. Showing up will only force my hand to make a decision and if that happens, then the decision will be made to end things cause that’s where my mind is leaning to right now.My response back:
If you don’t recognize that I deserve way more than that, then it sounds like the decisions been made. Which is heart breaking to me.So I’ll just make things easier for both of us then and call it. Lots of things I’ll be replaying in my head for a while….lots of question that I know you won’t give me the answers to, but I know I’m strong and will move on.
I would really appreciate you getting rid of (permanently deleting) any private photos/videos of me or us. Please confirm to me that you will. I don’t want to be a part of your collection of “formers.”
Also, please mail me my protein mix when you can. It expires in July and I’d like to not waste it.
If there comes a day when you realized you made a mistake and are ready to work on yourself, you know where to find me.
I’m not happy with you right now, but I will always love and care about you.
Also – it’s disappointing that you’re a grown man, and can’t give a woman who has clearly “put up with you shit” (as you have said) AND truly does care about you the opportunity to tell me what your feeling in a face to face. This feels like middle school.
Enjoy the rest of your visit and take care of yourself.
I won’t contact you anymore after this.
If you or Heidi can be as specific as you can be regarding whether this is a text or me going over there, that would be great.
I’m kind of feeling like me going over there is the way to go. And of I do go there, what’s the best approach? What an I saying when he opens the door? The more info you can give me, the better.
This needs to be done….and I need it done ASAP.
I’m not waiting another day to know if he’s gonna stay in this with me or if he is going to cower out.Thanks.
so, do you suggest I just drive over there at some point tomorrow and demand he speak to speak to me? or text him? And if it’s a text, what should it say?
follow up: So, I caved a bit from giving him space – altho I haven’t texted him since Tuesday morning. Texted him tonight around 5:30 to let him know I was going to be on his side of the mountain tonight – there’s LITERALLY a pretty big mountain that lies between his area and mine (funny, huh?). I told him if there was any part of him that was interested in seeing me that I would like to see him..And then I said “I hope you don’t go back home without seeing me.”
Three hours later, he texts me and simply says “can’t tonight.”
And then of course….I read into that…..like….”well he says he can’t tonight….but that’s not ruling out other nights.” I know he’s careful with his words…..so I can’t help but wonder if there’s meaning behind that. I simply responded by saying “ok” and then a follow up with “you’re killin’ me, but it is what it is.”
Either way…..I cried the whole 45 minute ride back over to my side of the mountain.
He says that all the time. That he doesn’t trust himself when he gets upset or angry to not say something permanently damaging. What kills him even more is that he says he does this even to his mom – who I don’t think there’s anyone else on the planet he cares about or worries about more than her. He described the feelings he has when he says hurtful things that he doesn’t mean….as a “cancer eating away at his insides.” He told me this after our first episode when he withdrew…..and this is one of the reasons he shuts down, so he doesn’t say something he doesn’t mean.
Anyway…..I do think it’s odd that he was willing to text me on his birthday about his cake…..even sending a text 30 minutes after I stopped texting him to show me that he had cut into the cake. And then he answered my text asking for advice……but after that – nothing. So it’s weird to me. He seemed fine to engage in those ways…..but he is still not reaching out to me. My friend asked me if I thought HE would think that it means I don’t care anymore given that I’m not reaching out to him. I told her…..as far as I have read and understood this attachment style….that he probably still needs space…..but just put his feelings aside on his birthday when he got the cake, and also when I asked for advice. Would you say that’s true? That he’s still needing space since he’s not reaching out? Does there ever come a time when he may be saying to himself “why isn’t she reaching out anymore?”
I hate all of this. I’m just so straight forward and have no problem enduring conflict to get to resolution.
I laughed out loud at that T shirt idea. I think you’re on to something! I am committed, for now…to wait things out. We did have a nice exchange of texts on his birthday after he received the cake I had delivered for him. Funny story….I was actually in the back seat of the car when it was delivered…and my cousin – who he’s never met – delivered it for me, since the place I bought it from wouldn’t deliver that far). It was fun to hear her tell me his physical reaction when he opened the door (guarded and kind of “what are you doing at my door?) and then the smile on his face when she said “I’m delivering a cake for someone’s birthday.” He knew right then and there that the cake was from me, since I’m the only person who even knows he is here in NY other than his mom and sisters. So, it meant something to me to hear that he smiled when he heard it was a cake for him.
When we have been together and started to breach a convo that was beginning to flood him, he would tell me…..”I’d rather not talk about this.” Or “You’re pushing me.” I’m wondering if those are good signs that he can recognize the beginnings and then tell me how he’s feeling so I know to back off. And then I do back off, for a time, until I can breach the convo another a way later on.
Another question for you: I sent him an email a few days ago- since I know he doesn’t check them often and it would be less intrusive than texting – and let him know that I’m learning about these attachment styles…..and explained to him in two sentences about me being more anxious with him….and what and why that is…….and I also told him (because I don’t think he’s ever heard the term avoidant attached before) that I think he is that style of attached….and explained in two sentences what that means. I then went on to say, “maybe this is you, maybe it’s not. But if it is you, I don’t think I’ve been as understanding as I could be about that, and for that, I’m sorry.” I went on to also tell him that I fear maybe I haven’t acknowledged enough the things I know he does for me that shows he cares….and then gave a list of many of those things. When I told my close friend that I told him that I think he’s an avoidant……she cringed! She said “You TOLD him he’s an avoidant???”
I really did it in a matter of fact of way…with a focus on me…..that I want to be more understanding towards him being that way….etc. I’m wondering if you think that was the wrong move?
Anyway….still waiting over here!
Thanks for that explanation. Makes sense now. Out of curiosity – if I WERE living with him – which surprisingly enough, he has mentioned that to me a few times – to come out there and live with him – what would his avoidance look like then? If I am there, sharing the same space? Would he drive off for a long ride? Just go in another room? Silent treatment? I’m curious what that would look like.
As for the workshops…..I looked them up and dang! They’re expensive! Like $775 expensive! I found one for free next week that I signed up for, so I’ll be doing that and looking forward to learning more. I also took her free attachment style assessment. Turns out I am 55% secure, 27% anxious. 14% Disorganized, and 2% Avoidant. I kind of believed I was more secure than I was anxious….but the times he is avoidant really heightens my anxious. And maybe since I’m mostly secure – maybe that’s why we’ve only had three of these episodes in three years. I don’t know. I’m just learning all this stuff….and am finding it extremely interesting.
I’m so glad I spent that $47 dollars on that e book, because 1) it friggin worked. That “need your advice text” got an immediate response when nothing else did.” And 2) this forum has been really helpful and informative.
Off to have my vacay day with my friend in the sun, drinking wine!
Thank you for your response. Appreciate the kind words you say about me! I actually only just heard about the anxious/avoidant styles just a week ago on a podcast called “Unf*ck your brain.” I heard it and was like, “holy cow….that me….and that’s him!!!” It felt good to know that this is a thing with people!
You’re right…..his emotional skillset is lacking. He insanely smart – an engineer (go figure) – But I don’t he ever really learned how to properly express his emotions.
I’d like to get real for a second…..and ask you both to be one hundred percent honest with me. Here’s where I’m at:
The more I know and learn about his attachment style…..the more I recognize that my own attachment style isn’t healthy. I am always willing to work on myself. Like, I literally set my mind out to do or NOT do something anymore….and it’s a done deal. Feelings are different. We can’t control those as we do our actions. Heidi made the comment that she has no doubt he will come back. And then you said that his avoidant behavior is a habit and doesn’t mean that the love is gone. This is comforting to me. But I really do hope it’s what is true about the avoidant and not necessarily words you say to me to make me feel better about things…..as if to “soften the blow” so to speak. I’m all about raw honesty…..even if it hurts. I/d rather hurt with the truth than by comforted by a lie. So feel free to give it to me straight IF you’ve been going soft on me! I can handle it!
It’s funny that you call it a gift I am giving him by putting up with him. I guess the way I see it…..is this is only three times in three years……and now that there is a name to his behavior and also to mine……I feel more at ease with that understanding….and feel pretty confident in my patience level to stick it out – to wait, to show love by stepping away. He is worth it to me. After 30 years of a BS marriage……I am willing to do the work necessary to see where this goes…..to look into the somatic adult attachment classes….and am willing to stay as long as I continue to see incremental growth in him as well – and I have.
That said….I will keep you all posted on what happens with this. Hopefully, it will be a good outcome!
Also….Heidi….when you can….can you tell me what you meant by “create a vision of connection between us two?”
Thank you!
also Heidi….can you elaborate on what you mean when you say “create a vision of connection between us two?” What does that look like?
aww.. thank you for your kind words. And thank you for clarifying what you meant by choosing the worst. Now that you’ve explained it, it makes sense to me. I have decided for myself that I’m willing to deal with these infrequent times of him needing to disconnect – (because he has issues, for sure….like we all do), and I’m willing to deal with it because this behavior never has happened when we are face to face. It only has happened while apart.
I read the article you sent….good stuff. I think if I can learn when he is feeling emotionally flooded….or if he can express it to me (which he has in the past), I can back down and give him the time he needs to calm down. I just have to remind myself in the middle of an argument….because I can be quite persistent!
As for it not being easy to get out of what I was in….it took me years to find the courage to leave. And only since leaving have I started to feel like I am totally justified. When you’re in the storm, it’s very hard to see things clearly.
As far as him losing out on the best thing that’s happened to him…..he has told me numerous times that one of the reasons he loves me is that I “put up with his shit” – “do my best to understand him” and “wait for him to come around.” He’s verbalized these things to me…….and I know no one else from his past has put up with his avoidant behaviors this long. So…..I guess I feel a little hopeful…..hearing from people who better understand these attachment types (I just learned them last week!). It makes me feel hopeful that you have no doubt that he will come around. I do hope so. He has the other two times, so…I’ll just wait and see. The first time he did it to me…..it lasted over three weeks….and I have to say, while I missed him…..by the time three weeks came around, I knew I would be fine without him if he chose to leave permanently. That was kind of an interesting feeling. But they do say it takes three weeks to break a habit! But that was when we were six months in. We are almost three years in now……so, it would probably be a longer recovery time for me!
Again…thanks for your response!
