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Thank you for guiding me with how to send. I am thinking of a couple of options.
1) Just how you stated it:
“I watched a video that helped me see our experience in a different light. Can I send it to you?”2) option one with a tweak.“I watched a video that helped me see our experience in a different light. It made me feel better. Can I send it to you?”
3) Take this opportunity to share that I am working on using my masters degree in counseling after 30 years of dormancy.
“I have been immersing myself if psychology latley as I hope to take the IL test for my license in counseling. I watched a video that helped me see our experience in a different light. Can I send it to you?”The third option is because I’ve been toying with sharing this with him. The pluses are it shows I am doing something with my life after our tragedy that is positive the downside is he might think that he does not need to give me as much financial support if I can have work nearing my 60’s.
Thank you for your kind words about my dad. 🙁
OMG that Ted Talk with Esther Perel was so dead on to what happeneed to us. I truely believe his heart issue was the catalyst to his change and eventual choices to betray. We’ve recently had some touching momemts on the phone as my dad passed away with covid and he reached out to me in cried on the phone and showed so much empathy and remorese that it melted my heart. I don’t know if it would hurt or hinder but I want to share this video with him. He is away at training for a new airplane for 3 weeks. Away from living with affair partner. Do you think sharing this would be too pushy or would it capitalize on the closeness we just shared? I would want to empahsize that I feel the growth from what’s happened and never want to go back to our original relationship. Regardless of whether he can ever feel the same I want to take this tradgey and make a good life with or without him. My preference is with. My door is open, but it will close someday. Can any of my words above be used? Am I just emotional with my dad passing and taking his kindness too far and hoping for more and sharing this will backfire on me???
I would start out by saying I feel this described what happened to us with complacency, his heart issue and now I’ve taken this time to self reflect and grow. I believe in a second beginning. I leave the choice to him. I will make a good life and use what I’ve learned and experienced to lead an amazing life either way. I just would prefer it be with him.I am glad to hear my process of healing with many self help outlets is “normal” and I will work my way through the ones that mean the most. That makes me feel better about the number of options I am trying. My bachelors degree was in psychology and my master’s is in counseling psychology, but as I look back I was young and didn’t have the empathy in my 20’s as I do now in my 50’s plus my life experiences. So yes, it’s always been a passion that just got pushed to the side with an airlines HR career and then just dabbling in real estate the last few years. This crisis brought the urgency and desire back to pick it up again and possibly get the PhD I always wanted. It does concern me that I would not have probably felt this passion if I had not had the infidelity, so I do hope that catalyst is positive instead of forced due to my situation. Or does it really matter? My desire for the PhD is really self centered in that I want to do research on long term relationships that have infidelity/ betrayal. I know there is research on Limerence with FMRI’s by Dr. Helen Fisher. Something along that line as a tool for healing and helping others. I still think there is much to discover. If you have any resources on this that you can share that would be great. Thank you.
Thank you for reiterating that I am respecting myself by not reaching out after the dumped on situation. This and one other time a year ago I did have to stand up for myself and set a boundary. I am trying to make this cat situation work as well, but most likely will have to set a third boundary and have the cat live with him. I will loose either way with the cat as I love her, but its the right thing to do for my other cats getting attacked.
As far as my PIES I might be going overboard with the self help interests. I have probably 6 books. follow several podcasts such as Marriage Helper, THrivologoy and Save The Marriage and Overcomeer. I follow Chopra meditation, Empoower Me program on getting through infidelity, Healing Codes for overall general health and well being on a cellular level, I listen to subliminal tapes for change such as forgiveness, self esteem, health and even one for my golf game which I can vouch really worked! I am looking into the possibility of getting my PhD in Psychology as I want to do research on betrayal and infidentily in long term relationships. I am getting the paperwork together to apply for my masters in counseling license in my state so that I can start some counseling next year. I signed up for Noom as I seem to gain and loose 20 pounds and want to drop that weight again and keep it off for myself and my health as I age. I have the green light on my hernia not hindering my exercise so starting that back up with daily 10K plus steps, yoga, resistance training. I am probably lacking in the social setting as Covid is making it difficult to get out and do things with others since I live by myself, but try to keep up with phone calls. I feel good about my efforts to do things for myself and future. Lately, I feel I am getting stronger to the point of thinking my husband is going to probably wake up and realize he gave up a strong relationship for new love feelings. It may take years and there is a great chance I will not care when that does happen, but for now it is giving me a sense of satisfaction to know he is headed for more of the same since he never takes the time to do internal work to realize happiness is not dependent on another person but is an inside job.
Although all the things I mentioned, and some I probably forgot, I do get concerned that I am maybe doing a self help overload. Most of the time it’s comforting but would be interested to know if you think I have too many irons in the fire!I get mixed results on the one way texts/emails. Sometimes he responds and sometimes I am ignored. I do try to always respond to his (not always immediately) but read somewhere the guide should be what I would do normally. Normally I would always respond it’s just now the situation is not normal. Or a better way to explain it is how would you want to be treated and do the same for him. The last I heard from him was a text on my birthday on the 8th of November. I have gone silent after a quick response thank you to him by text. So maybe you are saying do a mix with whatever feels right? Right now I feel like no contact as he dumped me with a very complicated cat situation and is not even checking to see how it’s going. That is so hurtful and I guess why right now I am choosing silence until he comes forward. Does my silence indicate to him I am moving on more?? Or is he so into his new life he doesn’t even think about me unless he has to for some situation. I think everything I read on your site is more about issues living with someone and not as serious as mine. 🙁
I follow two sources called Marriage Helper and Save the Marriage by Dr. Lee Baucom. MH believes in SMART contact and PIES. Smart contact is basically respond to them when they reach out or if you have business items to discuss. PIES is becoming the best version of me Physically, Intellectually, Emotionally and Spiritually for myself and could be a plus for husband as I move on but leave door open by not initiating divorce. STM believes similarity with the added concept of connection. Connection is why things fell apart and they were open to another person without boundries. That connection would include one way texts and or emails tag alongs if opportunity arises. My plan is to move on enhancing my pies with my new world. Where I wonder on how to proceed is the connection piece. I believe connection is powerful. I also wonder if he is finally given what he thinks he wants, with no interaction from me unless he initiates, he can finally feel life without me and either wonder about it or confirm that is for him. Right now I feel like the back up plan to him just in case. I remember reading an article on how I felt the day before D day and how I felt afterward. I didn’t have the fear stricken panic about my husbands affection the day before, but I certainly did when faced with not having it. The article went on to say that sometimes that is what is needed for them to truly experience what they think they want which is the other person and no contact from me. What is your opinion on the connection piece of one way texts or going silent unless he contacts me? I agree it is time to move on, but move on with no initiated contact from me or move on with the connection piece (one way text tag along) in place? Thank you.
Hi, I have done some of the gestures you mentioned in the beginning when he had just left to live with other person (food, favorite topic etc.) I don’t know that it did anything or maybe it is stored somewhere and will help overall someday. About the hero instincts. He used to like to fix and do things for me and I encouraged and appreciated it. As time goes on I’ve asked about some things for help on Internet or a light app and he brushed me off by sending a link to do it myself. Most recently one of my electrical outlets looks like something got too hot and I showed him and he said oh. Normally he would worry about it and change it or investigate. He did nothing. I don’t know if I did those request examples wrong or he is just distancing himself showing me he no longer does those things for me in his new life.
Is it possible for Heidi to comment on this previous question? I did get a response but it was addressed to Lee vs Michele and it didn’t really address my first paragraph. thank you! Here’s a repost:
Wow some pretty powerful stuff you shared! I will need to read it several time to really sink in. I think I led you to believe I was non emotional with him when I found out. I showed anger, fear, along with willingness to accept and move through this together, questioned why he didn’t come to me before this got so far gone, so passion was displayed in a round about way or negative way?? I still don’t know if that is the emotions that were going to help me. When relationship talks come up I do get emotional when I talk sometimes which shows I’m passionate about us, but don’t show anger. What could I be doing differently when those talks come up? With Covid I don’t get to hug him anymore when I see him. He has two preexisting conditions that would make him more vulnerable if he got covid so I respect his wishes to distance for his health.
I guess you are saying I need to go back to the real me that I lost along the way. The me he saw when we first met. I do wonder exactly how I can display that now that we are not together. I totally agree that is the path I want to take and believe releasing the anchor is the way to freedom. I feel I am very close to being able to do that, but it has taken me 16 months to get to the point of thinking that I can do that! I try not to beat myself up and just keep moving forward. Today I see him to help with a vet visit. I will see how the conversation goes and possibly share some things I am pursuing (licensure to counsel again – maybe even a PhD in the future etc). I also texted him to bring the sawzall and sander when he comes as I have a winter project. So physically and mentally I feel I am showing that I am moving on. I feel I showed my golf was important to me and kept it up by myself. Not a lot of women play golf by themselves. I am always upbeat lately when I see him with the exception of a cat trauma recently which is a whole other topic. I think I am on the right track and hope that it shows in my limited contact with him. I agree that physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally I want to be the best me I can be for me and whether that in time brings him back or not I have still won.
I guess I am confused on being upbeat and strong and yet showing vulnerability and strength? I feel like those are two different roads if I were to continue to show how this whole mess has affected me is that really what he wants to see? I thought showing my strength was you can’t break me and I will make a good life. I would love to know how to do both then simultaneously.I have the relationship rewrite program. I’ve read through it. I just was looking for some guidance on how it could be used in my situation. I don’t have the normal living together rough patch. I have a husband who had an affair and when found out chose to live with affair partner. My contact is limited. My situation is strained at best. Can this method be used for severe cases such as mine?
Wow some pretty powerful stuff you shared! I will need to read it several time to really sink in. I think I led you to believe I was non emotional with him when I found out. I showed anger, fear, along with willingness to accept and move through this together, questioned why he didn’t come to me before this got so far gone, so passion was displayed in a round about way or negative way?? I still don’t know if that is the emotions that were going to help me. When relationship talks come up I do get emotional when I talk sometimes which shows I’m passionate about us, but don’t show anger. What could I be doing differently when those talks come up? With Covid I don’t get to hug him anymore when I see him. He has two preexisting conditions that would make him more vulnerable if he got covid so I respect his wishes to distance for his health.
I guess you are saying I need to go back to the real me that I lost along the way. The me he saw when we first met. I do wonder exactly how I can display that now that we are not together. I totally agree that is the path I want to take and believe releasing the anchor is the way to freedom. I feel I am very close to being able to do that, but it has taken me 16 months to get to the point of thinking that I can do that! I try not to beat myself up and just keep moving forward. Today I see him to help with a vet visit. I will see how the conversation goes and possibly share some things I am pursuing (licensure to counsel again – maybe even a PhD in the future etc). I also texted him to bring the sawzall and sander when he comes as I have a winter project. So physically and mentally I feel I am showing that I am moving on. I feel I showed my golf was important to me and kept it up by myself. Not a lot of women play golf by themselves. I am always upbeat lately when I see him with the exception of a cat trauma recently which is a whole other topic. I think I am on the right track and hope that it shows in my limited contact with him. I agree that physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally I want to be the best me I can be for me and whether that in time brings him back or not I have still won.If you can respond to the rewrite method sometime that would be great! Maybe I can also rewrite myself!
Opps I forgot some of the question you asked.
“this is also important because one of the reasons he left was that there was no passion. He is choosing a lot more drama, but it makes him feel alive on some level. This is about you becoming and connecting with that powerful woman inside of you. Think back to the beginning of the relationship and who you were and how you guys interacted. It sounds like you guys had a great connection back then. What parts of you back then, are missing from you right now? What parts of you back then, can you begin to be again, within yourself? Learning how to activate those energies is really important. Becoming the full and expressive version of yourself is your journey here. Do activate passion in your life? Do you activate physical and emotional pleasure on a daily basis? Do you activate your feminine energy a lot? How about your masculine energy? Do you feel like your life is interesting?”
Yes, I totally believe he is going for drama to fell alive. I feel she fed his ego to the max and pilots do have egos! He once told me she ran to meet him at the door. Sadly, after 25 years I didn’t run to meet him at the door. Will she do that forever? Statistics and common sense tell me no. About being the powerful women inside me. He commented on how strong he thinks I am. I guess I got brownie points for not going off the deep end when this happened. (privately I did go off the deep end!). I was indepednent when he met me and throughout our marriage. Pilot wives have to be as you are left about half of the year. So I hear what you are saying but somehow I think he has a neediness inside and my independence in a way backfired on me? We always played golf together and since this happened I was not going to let that go by the wayside so he knows I play by myself because I love the game and he can’t take that away from me. Again, he notices but don’t think it’s helping me. I have not worked full time in the last 20 years as monetarily I didn’t have to and wanted to spend more time with him with his weird schedule. That backfired when I could not travel when our cat needed a heart pill every 12 hours and one year of helping my parents in another state with health issues. So both of these things he said to me started things off for him which is saying he din’t get enough attention. again, my independence and strength worked against me. My therapist said my bucket was full enough I could handle these stresses and his was not so he sought refuge outside the marriage. I hear what you are saying and I want to make my new life, but I will say the things I’ve shared make me wonder if he needs both independence and center of attention???Hi the link is the Relationship Rewrite Method on your site. I could not attach. OK back to your insightful question of under what conditions would I take my husband back if he were to come back? I guess I don’t know how to express it. I would never go back without him doing some personal introspection and realization that we both had a disconnect and for him to realize happiness is an inside job and not to look to another person for his happiness. That would set us up for failure. How that would happen or look or how I would make that clear to him I really don’t know other than to share my feeling about what I just said. That part is the scariest as he has not shown the ability in the last two marriages to do his internal work. I do believe that people can change if they want to though. Do you have methods to share how I could relay how he needs to earn the right to hold my heart again? I made it clear I was willing in the beginning to work on us. I don’t mention any relationship talk other when I have to respond to his occasional mention of divorce. He still knows from time to time that I don’t agree with that and think it’s a mistake. I feel it’s a push behavior to do anymore and feel I would be graveling if I did. So I keep the conversations light and no relationship talk unless he brings it up. I’m sure he was surprised in the beginning, as I was too, that I was willing to forgive. I was never the door mat type. I think I was so shocked that I was able to keep my composure fairly well and offer forgiveness. Only the day I found out did I show emotion. So sadly I have kinda shown strength and boundries and it’s not helping or at least does not appear to be. A few months after he moved out he wanted to have his sister stay with me at the house during her out of state visit. I stood up to him and gently said no that she would set me back emotionally and I could not afford to do that to myself. I was kind but firm. His sister is a handful alcoholic mess on a good day in a great relationship so I knew I needed to protect myself. I think he was surprised but he said I get it and she ended up staying in his apartment with him and girlfriend. I don’t know if this rambling answered the question. I really love your perspective. I’ve gotten more ‘in my face help’ from you both than my therapist I talk to weekly! thank you!!!
Hi here is the email from Lee Baucom introducing James. I will see if I can send the link separately.
In my family, we practice a “Do-Over.” When our kids were young, if they ever backed themselves into a corner… saying or doing something that was going to lead to trouble… we offered them a “Do-Over.” We would just start the conversation over… before they stuck themselves into a corner. We offered it to them. (Honestly, a couple of times, each child refused the “do-over”… and paid the cost… but it was their stand at the moment. Kids….)
Both my wife and I have also asked each other for Do-Over’s from each other. Maybe we said something in anger that we regretted. Or perhaps we did something in frustration that we wish we hadn’t. Almost always, each of us was willing to allow a Do-Over.
We got to re-write the relationship. It was a Relationship Rewrite, if you will. We got to re-write the script that was going on. Just edit out that part that didn’t work.
So, my first point of this email? Consider using Do-Overs (if you don’t already) with kids and others. It is a great way to have a second chance at a mistake.
Now, the rest of this email only pertains to women. I know… I have to say that too often. Men ask, “What about US?” Well, unfortunately, some people have created information that only applies to women who are trying to make changes with men. I don’t do that in my work. But others do. And if it is important information, I relay it to you… even if that means you have to hit “Delete” because it does not apply — this time — to you.
This time: for women.
Did you know that there is this predictable phase in many relationships that some have called the Withdrawal Response? There are specific situations that lead to this withdrawal action… when he pulls away from you, painfully (and sometimes harshly).
It is relational. But it is also neurological and biological. It happens in the brain. Deep in the brain, in fact.
A colleague of mine, James Bauer, has been studying this behavior… along with experimenting on ways to turn it around.
He has developed a process he calls the Relationship Re-Write Method. It relies on some neurological shifts in the dopamine system, based on interactions you create. For example, he uses a persuasion technique called reciprocity. This little neural trick leads to bonding and cooperation (when applied properly).
Oh, and that Dopamine Cycle? It is the one that is implicated in addictive behavior. Which Bauer has used to create a method of “addicting” him to you.
He has some information for you that you may want to take a look at.
<GO HERE TO GET THE INFORMATION AND HELP (women only – click to access)>I love his idea of “planting a seed of longing.” This is subtle — but powerful — ways to shift the neurological process from avoidance to attraction. From distancing to pursuing. But without YOU having to chase and pursue.
Now, let me be honest… this technique can begin to look a little manipulative. It is certainly persuasive. It is trying to shift things. I recommend people NOT use psychological tricks like “reverse psychology” for a specific reason: they do not last long.
But being persuasive… that is a whole different thing. You WANT to be persuasive. You WANT to master communication that moves people in YOUR direction. Especially when it is a movement toward something positive and good.
Remember that persuasion is neutral. You can persuade people to do good things and bad things. The persuasion is the same. The difference is in the outcome. Is it for something positive and creative or negative and destructive?
Moving things back into a marriage commitment… I put that in the “positive and creative” category. How about you?
If you want to check out James Bauer’s approach and information, go and take a look. See if it speaks to you. If so, use it! If not, you can just ignore it. But at least check it out!
<GO HERE TO ACCESS THE INFORMATION AND HELP (women only – click to access)>
I’m pulling for you!Talk soon.
Best wishes.
Faithfully,
Lee
Lee H. Baucom, Ph.D.I feel better knowing it has to be my time frame for recovery! I have used this wake up call to reconnect with myself, grow and learn. I would never want to go back! I realize disconnection/attraction on both ends accounts for what happened. I still don’t ever see myself filing, but one never knows. Can you address the question I had about the ReWrite Method and how this could be used in my current situation to help myself and my estranged relationship? All your insights have helped so much! Thank you.
It is a little bit religion, but mainly it’s not what I want to happen in my life. I would say the biggest reason is that I really do love him. I think he is a broken person that made a bad choice and continues down the path he started due to stubbornness and unwilling to change paths back even if it’s not as rosey as he thought it would be. I know him pretty well. I really find it hard to believe that he did this in the first place. We had too much good to toss away. Ok I hear what you are saying. I need to have actions, emotions and thoughts close the door for now. I am getting there slowly. It’s a process. I would be afraid of getting there too quickly as I do think one needs to really experience the pain, grief etc to actually be able to move on successfully. OK back to my deliema. I have split all our banking, bills etc to be single. It’s really as if we were divorced only technically I am not. I really need health insurance and feel losing that in a pandemic is a really bad idea. That is why he is waiting to file or so he says. I still don’t understand why me filing is necessary. He has told me he is going to once the pandemic is under control. Why can’t I let him file then? All my actions are like I am divorced. I am working on the thoughts as they ruminate and that is a tough one and I guess thoughts lead to emotions so once I get the thoughts under control emotions will follow? I think I am really moving in that direction in my own time frame. I do think if he did come back it would be a long time anyway. I have slightly over one year under my belt of living alone. I feel each day gets better with a few set backs here and there. I signed up with your site because of interest after hearing James Bauer talk with Lee Baucom of Save the Marriage podcast. It was about changing neural pathways in the brain ‘The Rewrite Method.’ I know asking about this is not moving on, but really did want to learn how that could help me in my situation. Could I explore that first to help me feel I did all I could do before pulling the plug? Or could this method secondarily help me rewrite my neural pathways to move on? I honestly would want to try changing my Husband’s first…:(
