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Hey,
It’s been a bit crazy….
I stayed very nonchalant and he continued to chase. A couple of my friends showed up and gave me a good reality check with all this. They pointed out the obvious (to the outside of the relationship) emotional abuse I was suffering.
He asked last week if I wanted to talk but I had plans that night and told him that. His response was “Look, I have no reason to fight” I said neither do I. No answer. I knew if I let him come over that he’d be able to skew my thoughts and boundaries so I wrote him an e-mail explaining I didn’t want to fight with him. Then I listed all the things that I was wanting from a relationship but it was based on the relationship basics he was wit holding. Like communication. I told him that I was patient with his distancing but that when he came back it felt as though it was my fault it was happening. I told him that all the emotional up and down’s along with the cyclical distancing was exhausting. That I needed to be able to speak freely without walking on eggshells or fear of abandonment. I also said that a few things happened that raised my suspicion there was another women and that if this was a healthy relationship that that wouldn’t ever have crossed my mind. I then said that I didn’t feel wanted and that it feels terrible and I don’t want to live like that or be in a constant state of wonder. I ended with I’m tired and just want to be at peace.
It was more wordy than I have said here but the whole thing was about how I felt and nothing attacking him. That was last Wednesday and he never responded. I didn’t actually expect him too as I’m sure he saw it as he got caught in his game and it wasn’t going to work any more.
I’ve moved past the mad part of this process and now I’m at the grief part, this part really sucks, but I know it’s for the better. The more I read and learn about narcissist the more I realize it is good it’s over as this cycle and patterns wouldn’t have changed and I would have been miserable. Doesn’t hurt any less though, especially knowing that being the way he is he likely never bonded emotionally the way I did or any other non narcissistic person does. So it was one sided with the illusion of it being mutual.
That being said I look at all this as a very powerful lesson and will be much more cognoscente in the future to pay attention to the red flags I ignored in the beginning. When I look back now, I can see all the signs, it was all there but being love bombed it’s hard to see when you’re in it.
Thanks for all your guidance and advice, it’s been very helpful to stay more grounded in all this. Much appreciated.
He’s never hurt me or anyone else that I’m aware of. He does have a temper and his tone can be very aggressive.
He’s mentioned that he’s had association with the Hell’s Angels when he was younger. (Not part of it but he did errands for them and lawn care type stuff) but he’s said if something that needs to be taken care of there are people for that. He may be blowing smoke but there’s no way for me to know for sure. That’s what I’m nervous about.
On another note, I’ve been very nonchalant with him the last few days and now he’s chasing. Suddenly has all sorts of time to come and see and even showed up to mow my lawn out of his own this morning, even though 3 weeks ago he said I could hire him for that.
Hi Heidi,
Thank you for that response. It helped. After he helped me move yesterday he got all tense and said he was going to his brothers. So I dropped him off and said, have a nice evening and left.
A few hours later I get a few messages from him telling me how happy he is for me and how proud he was of me ect. But he sent them through snap chat, he has never done that before. My ex husband said he did that so they’re not tracked.
I just said thanks and left it at that. He was a complete jerk the night before ( long story) and now being all super sweet. Agh. So today I said nothing to him. He sent instagram jokes, I didn’t respond. He asked later how my day was I answered but very short, non engaging responses.
I figured I would just stay quiet until he disappears but he’s already figuring that out. I want to tell him I’m done but he supossedly has dangerous connections so I’m a bit worried if I do that and piss him off he’ll retaliate.
He’s a narcissist, I see that now. I’m just not sure the best way out without being verbally attacked. Any ideas? I’m guessing based on you last message you saw this earlier on in my messaging so you know how to deal with a narcissist?
Well he came back yesterday from being away and showed up to help me move some stuff to my new place. Asked if I had my kids and I said no not till Wednesday. So when we were done shifting some stuff we were sitting and chatting for a bit and then he said ok well I’m going to head home. I have barely seen him in two weeks, he came back in a good mood but didn’t want to stay and spend time together. He said he’d come help me move the rest on wednesday and to let him know what time. So I confirmed with him this morning I’d pick him up at 840 to go pick up the u-haul and he agreed and then two hours later said can I actually help you later, I forgot it was a holiday. Or do you need me first thing” I was then fuming for obvious reasons I would hope. All the while knowing I don’t have my kids tonight and still didn’t ask to spend time together. So I just responded with yes I really need your help first thing. In my head I’m thinking, you just told me that you can be overly selfish and was going to try and change that, he also knows he was my only help tomorrow.
I don’t know if he understands his pattern but he’s so set on making sure he’s never controlled again he has basically controlled the whole flow of the relationship. I fell for it, he basically has kept me in fear of countering him on anything.
On top of that I’m pretty sure he just started seeing someone else. He gave me context clues that he probably didn’t even realize he did. I have never even thought that was a possibility up until last week but it makes sense with some of his other behaviors. So I’ll have to see how he behaves tomorrow but I think I need to walk away. This isn’t healthy. I’m exhausted.Hi Heidi,
Well I think the crying came from a few places. First, when my marriage was ending the last few years I had shut down emotionally so much that I couldn’t cry even when I wanted to and now that I’m out of it a lot of that bottled up emotion is still coming out. It wasn’t until I met my current partner that I was able to cry again. I don’t cry much anyway but it usually happens when I hold onto stuff because I don’t feel I can say what I need to. I also grew up no being allowed to show emotion or express myself so it’s really hard to do that.
My partner is ex military and he has PTSD quite severely. That has a lot to do with his mood swings but he’s also been trained to think a be a certain way. He has a lot of mistrust issues with his dad and in prior relationships he was controlled and even threatened. So he has his guard way up and as soon as he gets close to conflict he reacts as if he’s being attacked. I often have to remind him that I am not those people and I’ve shown him many times that I am not that way. Then he relaxes.
Because of that I have to be pretty careful how I say things to him and when. So if something happens and it bothers me I can’t come out and say it, I have to wait till he’s in a good mood but he also deflects emotions with humor. It’s challenging to have a serious conversation with him. So me crying had to do with finally saying to him how I was actually feeling. It was an overdue release. Also, as I was talking to him his face completely softened and he finally looked at me the way he used to plus he started hugging me. His physical touch has been diminished recently too except if I initiated and I didn’t like that being me all the time. I thought his care for me was disappearing, even though he tells me he cares for me all the time, but I think he was just so distracted with what was going on inside him that it got buried. I thought he was losing interest. So between all that and finally saying what I needed to is why I cried.
I still do feel a bit of hurt. I think that’s mostly because he’s now away for the next few days and he was so distant before that after reconnecting he’s gone again. So maybe I just didn’t have enough of a chance to calm after the storm with him. While he’s been gone he has texted a few times and sent some pics of where he’s at but it’s still pretty quiet. He hates talking on the phone so he’s not going to call and that bugs me a bit but it’s my own issue not his.
The other thing that bothers me is that being in a relationship you’d think that if you’re going through a hard time you’d come to your partner with it not shut them out. I did say to him, when referencing his recent situation, “I’m still trying to learn and understand you and you’ve haven’t told me everything but that’s ok.” he cut me off and said, what are you talking about I’ve told you my whole life story and you don’t need to try, just be you. I let it go but I meant on a deeper emotional level. The part that’s a mess with the PTSD.
I’m a paramedic and have also gone though PTSD due to my profession but also my childhood. However, I had the means to get it dealt with and he doesn’t. So I can see past the PTSD now and he’s still very much affected by it.
I think my biggest struggle is that I get scared to talk to him because I am afraid it will cause him to distance again so I say very little. My friend the other day said that he’s shown me that he always comes back and always comes back with grace and although we struggle to get to the communication when it happens we do it very well. She also said that he is a very different man than she’s ever known so it’s hard for her to help me figure out what’s going on but that I also need to stop over thinking so much.
I’m taking it easy this weekend and just working on my own stuff to keep distracted but it’s hard. This stuff is always occupying my mind. The question that wonders through often is why is it so easy for your to stay so quiet and all I want to do is be with you, even if it’s in silence. ( we’re both introverts so silence can be a very good thing, he just likes to do it alone and I like it with him there.) It makes me often wonder if his feelings are genuine even though he tells me he cares all the time. He has told me he loves me but only once.
Maybe a big part of this is my own miss trust issues….
Hey Heidi,
He came over the other night to talk and when he got here he almost immediately apologized for the manipulation comment and said he didn’t mean to say that and it wasn’t kind.
We chatted for a bit and then I told him I had some stuff to tell him and he said well I’m good to have a conversation but not to be talked at… (past relationship baggage).
Anyway I wrote down all the stuff I said to you previously and told him I was just going to read it because It won’t come out right otherwise and he was good with that. So I did and by the end I was balling ( didn’t expect that to happen, I’m not much of a crier) Anyway he was super receptive to all that I said and everything that I thought was fading out of him towards me came flooding back. His main response was “god I’ve been such a prick” he then said that he knows his personal stuff is affecting the people around him, including me and that he’s been extremely selfish and he’s trying to work on it. Overall the conversation went really well. Then I told him I had made him some baking teats for his trip this weekend and he looked at the floor then looked at me and again said ” god I have been the biggest prick, I’m so sorry”.
As for the passive aggressiveness, yes he can be but he usually catches himself when that happens and changes his tactics. However, he has said in the past that when he gets into this head space when he disappears that he’ll say mean things without thinking about it just to get people to leave him alone. I figured that was likely the case with the manipulation comment but the first and last time he did that I called him on it and he’d hadn’t done it since. So yes that’s exactly what that was.
I really like the idea of the emoji, I think he’ll like that too. I’ll mention it to him and see what he says. The passive aggressive comments can’t keep happening. I did tell him thought, that although I figured he only said that as a way to be left alone, it still stung. More so because I didn’t know he was there and if I had I wouldn’t have texted.
Now that this distancing thing has happened a few times now I’m not so panicked about it anymore now that I understand it a bit better.
I’ve never had a relationship be so good but so complicated.
He’s gone this weekend to a family function so I’m just leaving him alone entirely. He’s still texting but I only answer, not initiate.
I’m hoping that after the positive communication/interaction, the treats, being left alone and the fact that he gets to go home and fish he’ll come back in a much better head space.
.So I did what you said and ended it the way you mentioned and he responded right away and suggested the time I was thinking anyway. He even said he was still willing to help me move next week if I was still ok with that. Thank you so much for the help with that. I was resistant to not putting the time frame as I’m a very scheduled person and he’s not but I followed your direction and it worked great.
I couldn’t be happier with how that went.
Thank you also for the strategies for when I do talk with him. I will keep that in the fore front of my mind for sure.
With everything I want to say to him though, it doesn’t include the one thing I have been asking of him for my own needs that he’s not seeming to either understand or do. Every time he has come back after his “space time” I’ve said to him. I have no issues if you need space but it’s hard for me when it comes out of no where and I don’t know what’s going on. So if he could possible just give me a heads up and then it’s no problem. I’ll leave you be and then I don’t have to worry either. He’s nodded and agreed all three times I’ve said this but it has yet to happen. Is there another way I could communicate this? I just don’t want to say this again and then set him off because of it.
Thanks again. You’re guidance is greatly appreciated.
Thank you for that insight. I had a longer think about that text and I though maybe I should say Hey, I’m glad we took some space and I have come up with few epiphany’s that I’m excited to share with you when I see you next. Perhaps before you go away this weekend? How does that sound since he did offer to meet on Monday but I suggested to wait a few days. I also thought that way made it sound more positive and less like a “we have to talk” text.
As for what I am going to say I came to realize a few things over the last two days. First a lot of his distancing started after the custody of my kids became shared instead of me doing it full time and I became more available. Once that happened we started spending a lot of time together. Like from 1-2 times a week to 3-4 days. At first it was good and both of us enjoyed the extra time but eventually it became more routine and almost obligation to spend the extra time together. Then due to the virus the stuff I normally did in my day to day ended so I didn’t have a lot else to be occupied with so then I focused my energy on him.
So I realized that he had been telling me over the three distancing times that it was becoming too much but he didn’t say it directly so I didn’t clue into it. I heard him but wasn’t sure why he was saying what he was saying. I was more focused on the sudden distancing. The distancing usually had other stuff in his life that contributed to it as well and that distracted me from what he was actually saying.
So I want to tell him that I finally realized that although we enjoy the time we spent together that sometimes it’s too much and I took the focus off the rest of my life as my time became more available and put it on him. I understand now what you were saying before about needing to sometimes be selfish and take time to yourself but it wasn’t clear at the time that you needed me to do the same.
I also realize that I may be giving too much and making you uncomfortable and/or reducing your role at the man in the relationship. I show love and affection by giving but didn’t really think about what you needed. So I was hoping we could talk about that so I know how to meet your needs the way you need them met.
I do see that there is a lot going on in your life and you have stuff to deal with beside being with me and I’ve tried to help you with it thinking I was being supportive. I’m guessing that’s not how you saw it?
Out of the few times we’ve been up and down through this I have asked for just some basic communication that you’re needing some extra time to sort out your stuff instead of waiting till you’re in it and then getting upset with me for contacting you during that time when I didn’t even know it was happening.
So I was hoping we could work together with these things and find ways to communicate our needs before they turn into situations. I am also hoping we can put more emphasis on talking about the important things when were in a good space so we can minimize these struggles.
We’ve had a really good connection from the start, we have a lot in common and see our lives going in very similar directions. We’ve always enjoyed each others company and have had many stimulating and intellectual conversations. We connect intimately on a level that has uplifted us both. So it would be a sad thing to lose that. If we can take tough times and use them as an opportunity to grow self awareness and learn we could develop something really great.
I enjoy spending time with you but I would much rather it be quality time over quantity. My eyes have opened and I will shift back into living my life and let you live yours. However, it would be great to be part of each others lives instead of our whole lives.
So ya that’s the basics of what I had in mind. Please do edit and recommend changes. I try and word things so they are coming from how I feel and non accusatory but sometimes I’m not sure he sees it that way.
Thanks Heidi,
I took your advice and focused on what you said.
Everything has been mostly good but there has been a bit of an energy shift in our relationship. He invited my kids and I over Friday night and all was good. Saturday we both had plans so everything was fairly quiet. Not a problem. Sunday I got a weird intuition that something was wrong even thought I hadn’t spoken to him besides him sending a good morning text. Later that day I ask if we could chat cuz I felt like something was off about us. He said he was out of town and he is tired of me manipulating him and is taking some space. So I said I’m not sure what he was talking about as I am only trying to communicate with him and left it at that. He texted the next day saying he was willing to meet up to talk but that his mental state was troubled and he needed the space and didn’t want to be checked on. I took that as a bit short and snarky. I responded saying well based on what you said it sounds like you need a few extra days to process whatever it is you’re going through. I said I’m sorry you’re going through such a tough time but I also need a bit of space so lets give each other a breather and we’ll talk in a few days. Sound good? he said yes thanks. ( he still send me Instagram jokes as he normally does though).
So I figured I’d give it till Wednesday and see if he’s ready to talk on Thursday. So what I need to know is how I should word that text. ( if he doesn’t message first)
I was thinking:
I’ve had some time to breath and self reflect and am ready to chat with you. I have Thursday at 7 available, does that work for you?
Or is there a better way to say that? I want to make it so he doesn’t feel pressured but make sure there is a committed time to chat.
Yes I understand that what he did was huge and that he is making an effort. I do realize that his mood swings are part of him and I’m trying to learn how best to work with him and them.
He can change his mood swings a few time withing a few minutes and I’m really sensitive to energy changes in people so I can feel them every time they shift as if it was happening to me. When this happens he becomes silent and I have no idea what to say or not to say. I try and be gentle and as cautious when this happens and just letting him be to process because if I say anything then an annoyed energy shift shows up. So I stay quiet and leave him alone about it but I also feel like I’m walking on eggshells for a few hours till he shifts again.
I grew up in a home where everyone was angry at everyone all the time. People we’re always giving each other the silent treatment or being mean and snarky with each other. My dad was emotionally and verbally abusive and my mom took it all and tried to pretend nothing was happening. I left home fairly young to get away from that but when his energy shifts into a low mood I get the same sick feelings as I did back then. He grew up very similarly to the way I did but I fought against it at a young age but he didn’t until he was 20.
When this happens I go over all the good things about him and all the great things he does and says and what I know of him that causes this in him to try and calm myself about it. My brain swirls around it all the time though. So when he shifts into low moods my anxiety revs right up and I get exhausted really fast. Then it feels like we’re both vibrating in ways that doesn’t feel good for either of us. I then feel the need to “fix” it and I can’t because it will make it worse. So I try and leave it alone but that’s when I start to brain swirl.
He is enough and more than enough and I know that, I just don’t know how to navigate this so I don’t drive myself nuts all the time.
Yes it makes sense. I played it cool.
He did show up last Monday asking to come over to talk it out. He came and told me what had happened before he changed our plans. (It had to do with his brother overhearing him rant about his girlfriend to his other brother, he strongly dislikes his brothers girlfriend). So that apparently created a bit of a rift at home for him.
I explained to him why I was initially upset with what he had done and that the ghosting made it even worse. I said that if he had given me a heads up it would have made a huge difference and that I’ve mentioned many times that all it takes is some basic communication about what’s going on and then the plan change would have been fine. I did also tell him that doing that wasn’t ok and if he chose to deal with situations like that again, I’d walk as I don’t deserve to be treated that way.
He’s also had a lot of hesitation to get too involved with my kids so I also said to him that they are part of the package with me and that I do expect that he does over time start to create relationships with them because they aren’t going away.
He then apologized for his behavior and said he needed a bit to process all that I had said but that he didn’t realize that he was making decisions that were potentially putting his chance at a real relationship at risk of loosing it. That he realized thought that he needs to make some personal changes but he can only do a few of them at a time. He then said he wants me in his life and hugged me over and over again.
So this past weekend he invited me over Friday and all was good. Saturday my kids were coming back and I ask him if he wanted to spend the evening with us and to my shock he said yes have their dad drop them off and my house and we’ll go to the beach. He hadn’t met my ex yet and had been strongly avoiding that. I told him all my ex wants is to put a face to the person who is spending time with his kids. He said ok I didn’t look at it like that I guess I was being a bit ignorant. So he also agreed to say hi to him. He then asked all of us to stay the night at his house and everything went well there too.
The next morning he was exceptionally quiet again. So I just kept fairly quiet myself to let him talk on his own. He made a few small jokes, laughed at something the kids had done the night before and then said he was mentally exhausted. I told him I would get the kids packed up fairly soon and we’d let him have his day. He was good with that and was silent the rest of the day. Today it took him till about noon to reach out and chatted a bit over text.
I’m moving next month and I have a viewing of the new place tomorrow and he wanted to come with but tomorrow is also the night he originally asked me to go to the pub with him so he was confirming all that. He also knew the kids were back to their dad’s tonight and normally when they’re away we’re together the whole time so I asked if he was coming over for dinner tonight and he said no he was still mentally tired and not feeling very social.
I initially felt a bit rejected but took a bit of time to answer and said I know he made big steps over the weekend and I can see how that would make him mentally tired. I appreciated that he took all that on in one go and hope he could get some good rest. Then said I’m not far if you need anything.
He says all sorts of excellent things to me all the time but his mood swings are so often and so drastic I’m really struggling to deal with it. He knows he needs counselling and antidepressants and wants to get that done. So much of the time everything is good but these mood swings make me a bit crazy.
I don’t know if I should talk to him at all or just leave him alone all together when he gets like this. I feel like I need to tell him how his up and down moods affect how I feel but I also feel like maybe I’m just grossly over reacting. I feel like I’m going a bit nuts with all this and trying not to show him that. He texts everyday but it doesn’t feel the same as it did not that long ago. It’s a bit more distant, maybe it’s just the initial honeymoon phase slowing down. How do I not let this get to me? Should I tell him how his up’s and down’s affect me?
I did exactly that, I stayed silent to see if he would actually come back. He did text last night to ask how my day was and then asked me to meet him at our favorite pub next week. (he got laid off and doesn’t get paid till Tuesday) Then he said it would be nice to see me and restarted his old good night routine. I played it very cool and kept my answers minimal.
He is not good at expressing his feelings or thoughts but I can usually tell what’s going on based on his facial expressions. In the past we would give each other a day and then sit down and talk about it. It took a bit to get there as we figured each other out and his complete silence drove me nuts so I did push him some to talk to me about whatever it was so we could figure it out. So now when he does this I try and slow myself down and approach him more gently.
This time it came out of nowhere and he he changed all our plans without saying anything to me. I found after he had already started his new plans, so I was mad. I told him I was and he shut down. In the past I wouldn’t often tell him I was upset as he would get his back up so I let most of it slide but this time was too far and I’m guessing he was surprised as he wasn’t getting away with it this time. So that’s on me for not speaking up in the past.
He is a guy that “needs space to process” so I told him no problem just communicate that so I know that’s what’s happening and I’ll leave you be.
We don’t fight often so being ghosted took me by surprise and made me even more angry than I was to begin with. Now that he’s done that though, I’ve lost a lot of trust in him and feel like I need to keep a bit of distance until next week because he will likely ask to see me earlier when he knows my kids are back to their dads.
I feel like that’s a better way for him to know that ghosting is not OK until I actually see him to talk this out. However, I also think he’s hoping this will just blow over.
So my next question is do I keep it cool for the next while to make him work his way back in instead of just letting him back in with open arms?
*update
He texted this morning.
He said: I want to apologize for my childish behavior, I felt a bit threatened, I couldn’t talk. I’m sorry Roxanne.
Which I responded. Thank you for the apology.
Now nothing again.
I think it was mostly because things were going smoothly. My life is normally so full of chaos. He came over the next night and we had a really great time. We spent the next day together and it was also good. Then yesterday he got very distant, he always answers messages almost immediately but yesterday it was taking a really long time and now today is silence.
He’s going away with his brother’s for the weekend and I mentioned yesterday that he was really distant suddenly and he said he was going through some personal stress but that he’d get over it and was looking forward to the get away.
I told him I hope he has a really great time but that I care about him and am here to listen if he wants to talk. He said thanks I appreciate that and later sent his regular sleep well text.
I texted him this morning and said I hoped he had a really good time and was looking forward to naked cuddles when he got back. He responded eventually and said Thank you yes and yes.
I get really paranoid when guys get quiet. I try to be cool about it but it makes me so nervous. It’s probably my own insecurities AS I’ve had so many people I care about disappear. I have put so much time and effort into him and he has too. I keep reminding myself of all the wonderful things he does. I think before when I was “bored” it was more of I need to run away so it doesn’t hurt as much if he does it first. He has not given any indication of doing that but this is my issue.
On Tuesday when he came over he asked if I wanted anything from the liquor store I said it’s OK there is stuff here but he still showed up with my favorite wine and two of the specialty beers I like. Then he also notice my garbage and recycling needed to be emptied and he did it. So those are the things I need to remember when he gets quiet or I get paranoid. He treats me very well and I need to make sure I remember to tell him that often.
So that’s where we’re at and I’m hoping the future will be just as good as now.Thank you for checking in 🙂
Rox
Well I had a chat with him about it instead of just pulling back. However, I just sent much of the weekend with him and it was great. He’s a very good man and treats me exceptionally well but I have this nagging feeling like I need to need to end it. I don’t really know why yet. I’m trying to figure out if it’s because I’m not used to being treated this well so I’m scared or if I feel bored now. Everything I did managed to create the relationship I had wanted and now that he’s invested I feel off and I feel awful about it. I think I just need some time to really listen to myself but now that I did this how could I consider wanting to walk away?
