[Melissa M]

Hello and happy new year!

Wanting to give an update and kinda work through some of my most recent ruminations.

So that upswing night was kinda the start of a flurry of effort I could see my guy trying to put forth…
I think the easiest way to explain it is through the love languages….he pretty much started turning them all on….he was asking for quality time, he was showing me physical affection, saying sweet things to me, bought me really thoughtful gifts for Christmas, was doing a lot of cooking for me, giving me massages, helped me with the selection of my kid’s Christmas presents….so this goes on for a couple weeks until the night of the 29th when we are at a friend’s home that evening socializing and he sees I get a text from a guy I know that is just a friend but someone that makes him jealous and insecure. So we had previously been having a really nice night but then after that he got distant and we were heading home in the car and he wouldn’t really say much. He was a little tipsy so pretty much as soon as we get back to his house and in bed, he’s fallen asleep. But before he did, I said to him—these moments are very frustrating for me and I don’t know that I want to deal with them anymore. They are hurtful.
Well he pretty much said, this is who I am and fell asleep.
So instead of calmly remembering what Heidi had said about being on the roller coaster and learning how to just roll with it, I got really upset. I cried a bit and tossed and turned most the night. I got up and went to work in the morning without saying goodbye to him and I was quite upset.
Sure enough, wasn’t long before he was messaging me asking me if I was headed into work? Sending me a heart emoji. Like back to normal, no big deal.
Then when he arrives to work he is trying to chat casually with me. I disappeared into my office and shut the door.
So he messages me asking me what’s going on. I remind him that he iced me out once again last night. Like for the 3rd time in a little over a month…..
He says—I’m sorry for shutting you out, getting insecure and upset and feeling the need to shell up.
And then he asked if he could please make me dinner.
So I went over for dinner and we talked and he admitted he felt jealous and it’s not something he wants to talk about because he thinks it’s a weak feeling and it’s embarrassing to him and he hates when he gets that way. I reminded him of how much I was into him. I also said to him that this was so hurtful to me yet it wasn’t stopping or changing in nature….
He said he just thought this would be a part of our relationship….not because he doesn’t care that it hurts me but because he doesn’t know how to stop himself from being that way.
I had to get going because I had to pick my parents up from the airport but we hugged and agreed to talk more about it later.

So we had a nice New Year’s Eve together with friends and New Years morning we had breakfast but I had to rush away to spend time with my parents and kids and I spent time with them for 4 days. So Saturday (last) night I went over to his place after he got off work and we hung out together and ended up having long talk about an argument him and his brother had the day prior that actually turned physical.
I expressed to him how disappointed I was without saying it…he knew…and he was ashamed and also ashamed he hadn’t tried to make amends with his brother yet. He didn’t feel he deserved to be comforted.
He didn’t shut me out though. We talked through it and he made a plan to reach out to his brother and planned what he would say.
We were affectionate and he was being thoughtful towards me.
Then this morning he set the alarm so we could spend some quality time together before he had to go to work at 1:00 and we had a lot of snuggling, went for breakfast, and a nice walk. He did this because he’s recording an album all week and I’ll be with my kids so I won’t see him until maybe Friday night at the earliest…maybe not until next Sunday. And I also said to him I appreciated he’s been more proactive about trying to spend time with me but because we’ve been so busy at work, me with my kids, etc—we really only hang out after work or at events with friends. We haven’t actually done anything together like go hiking or anything for awhile and I’d like to do so. And he agreed with enthusiasm and asked to look at our schedules and set a time…and he reminded me that I have visibility into his schedule unlike his into mine and that I can change my work schedule and he can not and I also need to work around my kids so although I do all the planning he was saying, it’s not because he doesn’t want to or want to have quality time. So that was nice to hear.

So for this week, I don’t imagine we will communicate much as he will be working on the album for 10-11 hours a day and I will have my kids so going to bed at a decent time. And that is ok. I know he is excited and this week will feel so good for him.
And I’m looking forward to being with my kids.

So I am feeling pretty positive right now but I know we will have to revisit having strategies around these ice outs and also hopefully I’ll do a better job next time of coping too…

And I still feel I have a lot of work to do to be less controlling. Cuz although I am pretty good at “hiding” it, he’s too observant not to know it’s part of who I am and feel a certain negative way about it, I’m sure….based on comments here and there when we were having those deep conversations early December….

So the need to be in control comes from being insecure…
So I know it’s gonna take deeper work and probably more positive changes in our relationship, but any tips on how to just stop feeling a need to control things from day to day now?

[Melissa M]

Wow…that is really interesting. Again, a different way of saying what I’ve read before…which is kinda like …just let go, live in the now, take what I can but don’t stress about what I don’t.
Or like my one friend that I talk to says….quit your bitching if you’re gonna stay with him.

I did spend last night with him after he initiated a lot of texting about regular topics and then around 4:00 started sending me very flirty messages.
So I decided to roll with it.
We had a great night, very exciting but loving sex, cooked a big meal together, laughed a lot.

I get what you’re saying about it being a game. It does feel that way and it’s exhausting.

I think I’ll attempt to do what I dug when I came here last summer….focus on me, focus on what I do get positively from this relationship, and like you say—relax a little.

I’m putting to much pressure on everything and the vibe is out there even if i try to keep it in.

We’ll see how it goes….

[Melissa M]

So I felt I did a good job today…I didn’t call him or text him this morning even though he was due at work early and he walked in ten minutes early.
I kept my distance at work and not too long into the day he started chatting now and again with me.
Around 4pm he starts sending me messages saying he likes how I look in my dress and how he missed my body. So we had a very flirty text exchange that went back and forth for awhile and was fun.
Then he asked me if I was free tonight and I said not for a few more hours as I have plans….
So we’ll see.

I know this is not in the plan but I feel good just rolling with it right now. Like if he texts me saying let’s just meet up some other night, I’ll be fine with that. I can do my own stuff tonight….

[Melissa M]

I know he needs time….which is why I think either a break is needed or some steps back like just simply spending less time together…
I guess I just thought I’d be the one initiating it….
Like I was prepared to text with him less yesterday because I was busy but I didn’t expect him to be the one not initiating any conversation.
And I am prepared to not spend any time with him this week. I just thought I would be the one setting the tone and the boundaries because the way he was acting prior to yesterday…..

I have a lot of things to occupy me so I still function at a high level when stressed about him.
But it’s definitely hanging out in my mind, the stress. And then I come here to vent and organize thoughts and get feedback.
I don’t talk to anyone about him except one friend so this is where I dump all my thoughts.

I guess I was just hoping there’d be some semblance of love going into this time.
Like…we know we love each other but we’re going to take this next step to do what’s right for ourselves and try to be supportive of each other through it….
And there is a goal to grow as people individually but also a desire to stay connected.

Yes, I think I’ve put too much pressure on us/him. But like I’ve said, I don’t act this way out of nowhere…he can be inconsiderate and it’s upsetting.
I know the only thing to do now is focus on me, sit back and have patience and self control and wait.

I’m just expressing in the meantime, it’s making me anxious and sad.

[Melissa M]

Depends on the day….
I’m just confused because he goes from asking to see me Tuesday/Wednesday nights, saying he’s going to miss me on Thursday, saying I love you Friday night, apologizing for not going into work Saturday, to no communication Sunday.
And no communication after I try to send something warm and encouraging in the morning. I get a few hours….
But he didn’t send anything, not even any links or memes like usual or anything…and then barely engages when I initiate conversation….which I was ok with because he was at work so I just focused on spending time with my family.
But then when I wake up at 1am and see he never even sent a word even he got off of work…and I hear how he was acting social at work, I feel crappy.
I know I was communicating less too all weekend but I was with my family visiting….
I know what the right thing to do is but it’s hard on me right now….
I thought not seeing each other for 4 days would be good for us and not communicating much would be a good mental break too….
But the way it unfolded is making me uneasy…

[Melissa M]

So may be getting a break whether I wanted it or not….
Been away for the weekend visiting family and having a good time and haven’t been messaging much. But have definitely seen his mood shift. Thursday night messages I’m going to miss you…Friday night messages often throughout the night telling me about his night and asking me about mine. Texts I love you before going to sleep but I don’t reply because I fall asleep.
Then Saturday he doesn’t go to work and stays in bed all day feeling depressed. Then he goes to work for two hours saying he feels bad that he didn’t go because it may look bad that he’s calling out on a day I’m off. So he messages me something around 10pm asking about if some herb is gluten-free as a joke but I’m chatting with relatives and don’t reply until midnight and at that point I say to him thank you for going into work and he replied Yup.
I then fell asleep.

So I wake up Sunday morning wondering if I should just wait for him to say something first or what…but I messaged him and simply said: hope you wake up feeling better today than yesterday and if not, hope this helps and sent a funny video from online.

So I see he reads it and then he doesn’t reply. So 6 hours later I just message Hi and he responds hi right away and I say hope you’re well and he says thanks I’m fine. And then I say to him I’m finished the book he lent me and say a few things about it. And he sends a heart emoji and asks a follow up question. So I answer answer that and he responds and I tell him about another book I started reading. That’s about 7pm.
He never responds again.
Never says anything.
Not goodnight. Not anything.
So apparently he also needs some time and space. I’m sure you can imagine though how this is making me feel….
It’s disappointing to get this ice out again.
And I get it. I understand the things you’ve told me but it hurts.
And it also hurts because I get a text from his manager saying he’s frustrated with him because he’s been socializing a lot at work today vs working so I have this image of him there—not acting particularly depressed or down at all—chatting with coworkers—feeling good enough to do that—but can’t send me a simple note asking how I am or when is my flight or even text goodnight…..

It stings. It doesn’t feel like I’m being treated this way because he’s hanging from the bridge. It feels like I’m getting treated this way because he’s upset with me or wants to defy me….like he thinks—-she’s only trying to interact with me to get reassurance and I’m not gonna give her any.

I’m headed back to work tomorrow and he’s supposed to be there. If he shows up, then I’ll see him and I’m not sure how to act. I figure I’ll just keep my distance….
I’m thinking the best thing to do is let him initiate any conversation and leave him be.
And I’m definitely mentally prepared to not spend any time with him this week. Like take some more days off from hanging out/don’t suggest getting together. He needs to do that if there’s any chance of that happening.

[Melissa M]

Would force me *

[Melissa M]

So I really appreciate this.
I know you’ve told me the same thing ten times but it finally got through.

Yes, I know texting can be so bad…
I did however text some with him Tuesday afternoon. Kinda paraphrasing a lot of what you said…acknowledging where he is in his life and how anyone’s needs would be too much and yeah, maybe I can be slightly needy but let’s not make it all about that—because in reality, he’s just not equipped to be in any sort of relationship where he can offer much right now.
He tried to pull the oh remember we were supposed to be more casual comment but I shut him down and reminded him that although he said he wanted that last April, in July he said he didn’t want to move to be in a band because he didn’t want to move away from me and he only wants to be with me. And I even said…I tried something last June…I just focused on the positive. I focused on the things you were doing right. And I spent more time away from you doing my own thing. And guess what? Come July you say —I don’t feel like I did in April. I just want you. I love you.
So I know we have been here before but I need to decide if I wanna do this again….because even if you’re not capable, doesn’t mean I’m sticking around….
So then by end of night he asked me to go to the movies and I did and we looooved the movie so wanted to discuss it after and he invited me to his place and I went and we talked about the movie and then we ended up making love and then Wednesday I went to work and focused on work.
He messaged me towards end of my shift asking me to hang out so we went to dinner (Dutch). And went to bed. I went to work Thursday then left town with my kids to visit family where we are now.

Last night he was out really late and messaging me throughout night, he was just falling asleep at 4:30am.
He was supposed to work at 2pm but called out.
Of course, I’m disappointed.
I feel a little stressed about it but not as much as I normally would.

I’m not quite sure how I want to proceed….
I thought of suggesting a break. I find that hard with Christmas and New Year’s approaching.

I thought about just taking a break on my own accord without discussion…like I would just not be available unless he initiated it. And not last minute…and see how that goes…seems at first it would for sure give us some space.

Then I thought he’s leaving for a week in January so I could ask for break to start then if I still want to…
Trying to not put too much pressure on myself to decide this moment.

To answer your other question, I’ve always dated men that are probably more into me than I’m into them…so they haven’t accused me of being needy but I know I have those controlling tendencies/always have since I started dating….Which is kind of why I think an actual break seems necessary because no contact with a force me to give up any sense of control.

[Melissa M]

I can’t help but feel manipulated somewhat right now…

His needs get to get met. In order to keep him, I have to back off and give him space and not bring up the things I want to address.

My needs continue to go unmet or unaddressed because I’m too needy in the first place, I don’t get to have other specific needs that I think are pretty normal ones.

Making any sense?

[Melissa M]

OK so at this point I’m just using this forum as a place to vent and try to organize my thoughts.

He has self-hatred that manifests itself in the form of depression. His depression causes him to need space and isolation. I find this to be selfish in the context of a relationship sometimes.

I have self-hatred that manifests itself in the form of neediness. I therefore seek to be reassured. He finds this to be selfish in the context of our relationship sometimes.
See how we are the same but so different? See how our our needs are in polar opposition to each other?

But the difference from my perspective is I continue to try to show him compassion and be open to him. Even though it’s hurting me when he shuts me out, I don’t tell him you need to be with someone else.

[Melissa M]

And I’m upset with you for being needy. I’m pushing you away now….
And then of course, when I’m being pushed away I panic and freak out and just want him and say I’m sorry, I’ll work on me implying I’ll need less than him and basically give up on having my needs met and try to keep quiet about them and let the small, inconsiderate stuff go…. and he softens to me and is sweet again and then we start the pattern over again.

[Melissa M]

Also…I’m seeing a pattern—
I express some pretty basic needs. Needs any person could reasonably have in a loving relationship…pay me back with a sense of urgency, remember to invite me to things, be able to communicate vs icing me out, introduce me to people, etc….
Not much changes…
I start to get anxious because I start to feel insecure that nothing changes because I’m the reason, I’m not worth changing for.
I start to ruminate. I start to thing bigger picture. What are the other things I want that I’m not getting? A boyfriend that wants to make a minimal effort to see me around my kids, someone that initiates sex with me because they’re attracted to me, someone that wants to express love to me by reminding me of the things they like about me….
But then it becomes Melissa is too needy. So we aren’t even going to discuss my needs because he’s already determined I’m too needy and that he’s been clear that he loves me but he’s not good at being considerate.
So basically….shut up and get over it.

[Melissa M]

Well I made a big mistake
I woke up this morning and had a Dr’s appointment only a short drive from his house. I messaged him saying I’d love to pop over. He didn’t read and I figured he was asleep. I thought I’d surprise him, bring him a coffee and was obviously hoping we could have a nice moment and then I’d go do some things on my to do list and he could do his own thing.
When I walked in to his room, he didn’t look happy to see me.
He’s not a morning person and I could see on his bedside table he hadn’t taken his migraine meds yet for the day.
I say down on the bed next to him and touched his head and he was unresponsive.
He took his meds and we sat there quietly but not touching for 25 minutes. I figured I’d give it the 20 minutes for the meds to kick in…
Then I said to him-/ I didn’t come over here to hijack your morning. I didn’t come over here to have a relationship talk. I just came because I was nearby and I thought it would be nice to surprise you and see you. And I thought we could have a nice moment before I have to see you at work this afternoon.
Would you like me to leave?

And he said he thought I was very selfish for coming over without him telling me I could first. He said he just woke up so he hasn’t had time to think about it, but maybe he still upset with me from our texting conversation the night before.
He said you are hijacking my morning. I was going to get up and do stuff and now I have to feel guilty about the fact that I’m turning you away.
He said you’re too needy and emotional.

So I set up and put my codon and of course I was crying and he said are you going to drive all the way back home? You can just shower here and then go do the things you were going to do. And I said no thank you. And I went over to the bed to pick up my bag. And he put his hand on my hand.

And I said I’m really in a constant state of confusion with us. end it really hurts because we never had a boundary before about me coming over to your house whenever and I just wanted to have a moment with you. And he said you wanted reassurance. And I said yeah, there’s probably some truth to that. But why does it have to always be all that? Why can’t you just believe that I also just wanted to genuinely see you and connect with you? why do all of our things have to relate back to my insecurities? I just don’t think that that’s accurate. and then we just stared at each other not seeing anything for a full minute. And then I got up and just left.

And of course he’s already sending me links of videos to watch from Facebook or something. I’m not opening them right now.

The situation feels heartbreaking but familiar. We’ve been here before. He’s called me needy before. I know I need to work on my own stuff. Is it really all me though? Like all of our problems are because of my insecurities?

I’m so confused and don’t even know what to do now again. I never should’ve went over there. I knew it was a risk. As soon as I saw that he didn’t look like he was wanting to have a positive connection with me, I should’ve left immediately. I made one mistake after another. And he’s probably right, I probably kept making those mistakes because I say I want to connection, but I guess I really just wanted reassurance of his love. I guess I wouldn’t be with someone that wants to show me some compassion. And I know he has in the past and maybe he’s just not capable of doing it in this moment. We are very different. And it’s a struggle

[Melissa M]

If there is any way one of you could share your thoughts soon I’d really appreciate it as I’m going to see him tomorrow at 2:00 at work….
I know I can avoid him there but I’d like to regroup

[Melissa M]

Ok so I said

There’s been things lately that have been bothering me that you’ve done but i think to the extent they bother me is because of my own insecurities.
Like the codependent patterns we have…I’m afraid you stay with me because I’m a comfort to you so I continue to mother you even though it can cause me stress because if I don’t will you leave me?

He responded— of course you’re a comfort to me
But I love you and love talking with you and listed some reasons he loves me

And I said well some other things i struggle with are you not hanging out with me and my kids ever, you not verbally abusing me but going to the sunken place and not communicating, and you hardly ever initiating sex anymore.

And then I kinda paraphrased some of what Heidi said and said regardless of the above I need to start working on me —that’s what I can control…

And he replied—
Idk I feel like you’re expecting an unreasonable rate of change
We’ve made a lot of progress
And things seem to be going fine and improvements seem to keep getting made
But yes, sometimes each of us will make a mistake along the way
I haven’t figured any of my life out yet
I don’t know what to expect of myself or know where I’m going
I don’t know ultimately what I have to offer you
I would like for us to have something as simple as a mutually beneficial loving and caring friendship/romance that’s exclusive
Am I that parasitic?
I know we don’t have a mutual experience of growing side-by-side
You’re watching me develop and maybe you even want to control and someways how I do…..

And I replied there is probably some truth to that because I wanna be included in his future. And I’m hoping we both can find a way to address our own issues and grow as people but while we’re together in this relationship.

And he replied and said he was trying to figure out his own stuff, for sure. But he doesn’t know what it is yet. He said he has no career, he has no financial stability, he suffers from depression.

I asked him what his desire was for his future

He said he didn’t know

I asked if it seemed realistic to him that I would be included in his future

He said that’s an absurd question. Do you realize that? He said I love you and I’m happy that we are together. But I just explain to you how much uncertainty I feel about myself and I don’t understand why you would shoehorn our relationship into that? and maybe your insecurities come from my inability to answer that. You need to find peace with the fact that the future is unknown and I’m not going to lie to you to make you feel comfortable.

And I said well, I appreciate that.
I asked him if he thinks he needs help with managing his depression and anxiety.

And he said probably but it’s also probably not going to happen due to lack of health insurance and lack of motivation

And then he asked me if I thought he was deflecting from addressing some of the issues I brought up earlier
And I said no but his view on the state of the world and the uncertainty of his future made it difficult to think he would want to talk about those issues anymore because they seem they would be somewhat insignificant now to him in comparison….
And he said our relationship can be a sheltered from all of this BS….

And I said yes, for you but for me I think I need more?
And then I tried asking him what does he want right now? Which I guess was kind of a dumb question because he’s made it clear he does want to be with me right now so it probably seems like I was looking for reassurance and maybe deep down I was? I kind of wanted to refocus the conversation back on the now.
And he replied I think you want to hear for me that I want to spend the rest of my life with you in order to stay in a relationship with me. And if that’s the case you should dump me.

And then he said he was frustrated.
And then he said I’m not going to disappear any minute.
And he said I can only talk about how I feel in the general now.

And then he sent me a video of some animals and said here fucking watch this and remember we enjoy hanging out with each other

So at this point I can see his tone shifting to anger and frustration. He’s losing his patience. At this point we’ve been texting pretty steadily for two hours.

So I reply and say I’m just trying to process what you’ve told me. This is new information. We used to spend time together talking about our potential future. Now you’re saying you don’t have the ability to consider that. I’m just processing that information.

And he said it’s hard to reassure you when you freak out about the future.
Maybe feeling pressure to make vows about an opaque future freaks me out

And I said that makes sense

And he said this is a reoccurring pattern in our relationship. It used to make me uncomfortable but now it makes me angry because I think it’s controlling.

Then he says —To me, You are unhappy with yourself and blame your flaws for my not fulfilling the role you want/need to fulfill
Then you seek reassurance on our future short and long term because you think your flaws are weakening our bond. You seek immediate comfort instead of just talking about the your issues outright or trying to focus on changing them yourself. Putting me in a precarious situation because you wanna hear its ok by way of long term commitment. And that pushes me away.

And I agreed he is correct.
And I said that is one of the two things I am trying to work through. I’m trying to work through understanding whether I can work on those insecurities while I’m in this relationship with him or will it be necessary for us to part ways for me to really fix that part of myself? And also his behavior. There are elements of his behavior that aren’t working for me but we haven’t even talked about any of those tonight.

So then he said the premise of this whole conversation was based on the fact that I was saying I acknowledged my insecurities or something I needed to work on and where the problem

And I said I think you’re partly right there
I presented it and believe it is about my insecurities AND your behavior but I acknowledge my insecurities are the only things that I can control.
And then I said I think you misunderstood my question when your tone shifted to be angry because I wasn’t trying to continue to ask about our future, I was trying to ask about what you wanted to happen with us right now…
At this point we have been texting for four hours
He replies and says I haven’t eaten tonight. I am a zombie. We should’ve waited to talk.
And I said well should we in this conversation then? I don’t want you to just disappear on me and he said sure
And I replied ok then, I hope you get something to eat and he replied ok

And that was it

I did say thank you for engaging in such a long conversation with me and being honest and a good listener
But he hasn’t opened those messages

So I’m feeling really really confused right now.
I know I have my own insecurities that I need to work on. I know those are the weeds that have to be addressed. But it’s like it was the only subject matter of the night…. Nothing else was going to get addressed from his side. It’s like every bad feeling I have, it can automatically be assumed I have it because I’m insecure. Not because he actually did something hurtful or was inconsiderate towards me.

I don’t know how to proceed or even what to feel

[Author]

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